Resolving the Paradox - The REASON for faith in Jesus Christ.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Show me where he said he would take us out of hell. I thought hell was a permanent deal.

You just can't talk to these people...they use circular logic. Look it up on wikipedia. It's like arguing with a brick wall, or a record player.

:bnghd:

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I probably shouldn't have posted that, because the thread is really arguing for the end of hell if there ever was one, because a time comes when hell is throw away and a new basis established in non-duality such that, thereafter, the good will continue to do good and the evil, evil ie: back on the karmic wheel. The problem with hell, even as the most remote threat, is that it removes the possibility to respond to the love of God in/through Jesus Christ with authentic love in kind (non coersive). The spirit and the bride say come, and freely drink the living water of life, they don't say come and freely drink, or else.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Here's half my problem with the whole deal. This is a response to a post on another thread, but the important part is what I posted back.

He understood the dilemma of a Holy and Just God forgiving sin without judgment.

Did he factor in the supposition of "God" creating that sin? Did he think to consider that "God" is stuck with a problem of his own making? Did he think to ponder the idea that "God" is not only omnipotent, but perfect as well, yet he created both an imperfect race and a place to punish them for all of eternity, which equates to making an infinite amount of opportunities for us to f*** up and a way to punish us for such, when he could have avoided the whole mess and been happily ever after?

What kind of omnipotent and perfect being deliberately places themselves in a situation where they will have to choose which creations to destroy for flaws that they were given, and which creations to keep because they rebelled against the nature they were gifted with? And the cherry on the freakin' cake is that he's f***ing with living, breathing, feeling, thinking souls. We have rights too, but we were just made to be his stupid play toys, so he can see how we react to all these horrible games. Testing us, just to watch how we play. Just to watch us squirm. Do you see the long line of contradictions and twisted games that we're faced with?

I think God's name is John Kramer.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I'd rather talk about the end of hell, and the resolution to the problem, which is depicted at the end of the Bible btw.

To explore this idea, would require however, a certain degree of open-mindedness on your part, that what you presume is/was fixed/set isn't/wasn't actually fixed/set but also contained imbedded within itself it's own resolution, so that the circle could be rejioned as the alpha and omega right across the board and the river flowing between two trees, one of non-duality, it's flow of living water freely available to all who thirst that they will be satisfied, even you.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Just so no one missed it - stated succinctly, the OP reveals that A) if the soul is, generally speaking, immortal and indestructible (for some, of the very worst kind, there could be a "second death"), then B) Jesus Christ IS God or the son of God and AT the right hand of God, the king of kings and Lord of Lords, where all the treasure of heaven is in him in the form of his love, which we already share..

And since we are already enveloped in the sphere of that greater truth and reality as it is, we are already revivified, reinvigorated, re-born and resurrected.

And now, with our true self re-discovered & as children of God and co-inheritors with Christ of the magnificent wonders of heaven (however much they may yet reside in an unknown unknown or a domain invisible to us being irrelevant), we may freely enter in (to new pasture) and come and go as we please ie: set free for the sake of freedom.

This is a real marvel, for all those with the ears to hear!

Best Regards,

NAM

P.S. There is no hell in this or threat of hell, nor the possibility of hell, and we each recieve in accordance with who we are and what we've done, which is just, and fair, but while the karmic law of cause and effect still applies, for those who repent and are forgiven, our robes are washed clean by the blood of the lamb who alone has resolved the karmic paradox thus setting us free from the trap or the snare.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

And since we are already enveloped in the sphere of that greater truth and reality as it is

Don't you DARE call it the truth. Don't - You - DARE. I have no problem with you calling it a theory or a belief...both of those are not proven facts, and are therefore in the realm of "I think this, because of this, but you don't have to agree."

What you have is not FACT. So don't refer to it as such. We have no video, sound bytes, certified medical records, or anything that can prove anything of what you say. Call it anything you like, except for truth or fact. Because you have not yet proven it as such.

P.S. There is no hell in this or threat of hell, nor the possibility of hell,

Mark 9:43-48 "If your HAND causes you to SIN, Cut It Off. It’s better to enter Eternal Life with only ONE HAND than to go into the UNQUENCHABLE FIRE OF HELL with TWO HANDS ... If your FOOT causes you to SIN, Cut It Off. It’s better to enter Eternal Life with only ONE FOOT than to be THROWN INTO HELL with TWO FEET... And if your EYE causes you to SIN, Gouge It Out. It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God with only ONE EYE than to have TWO EYES and be THROWN INTO HELL, where the MAGGOTS NEVER DIE and the FIRE NEVER GOES OUT."

What's that you were saying about no hell? Nice to know you're clueless. Just so everyone else here knows that you're full of hot air. And just for a little more informational reading:

Luke 12:5 "I’ll tell you whom to Fear. Fear God, who has the power to kill you and then THROWN INTO HELL. Yes, he’s the one to Fear."

That's Jesus talking, by the way. ^

Have fun with "There's no hell" and "God is loving". Pfft...

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Work it out, think it all the way through. It's geniune.

The only alternative is pure atheistic materialist monism ie: no such thing as spirit just future wormfood which the whole NDE phenomenon demonstrates is false.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Read the end of Revelation, it's there.

But if you'd rather accuse God day and night over the whole idea of hell, that's up to you, but the problem of it has been resolved in the fullness of time and history.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Please read my previous post. I believe I can smell your entire argument burning to ashes, from where I'm sitting. I'm not sure, but it looks like you really don't know your scriptures that well, so your opinions are kind of unreliable, as in...unfounded. But hey, I guess that's faith for you.

50 cents for another game.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Who will run or lead hell when the devil is bound up in chains and thrown into the abyss which means oblivion and death and hell thrown away and burned up?

And how can people freely come for living water with the threat of hell looming all around?

I also prefer John to Mark, but there is a valid point that psychologically, if we are not willing to rid outselves of a certain part of ourselves which causes us to keep sinning and sinning, that the whole being becomes corrupted and worthless or fruitless and spiritually dead.

But Jesus great work, you must see, was performed so that hell would be emptied out and abolished, not filled up.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You know, it's kind of funny and amuzing when you really think about it..

Even though your only point of contention with the Biblical God and the basis of your hatred of him (who I call the God of Love) is in his allowing hell to exist in the first place - when I come along and inform you that the Bible ends beautifully, with hell and death thrown away, to be replaced by a flowing river of living water at best, or at worst, the karmic wheel rejoined (wherein the good continue to do good and the evil, evil) and declare this in Jesus Christ as the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last (first/last cause) with God himself in the person of Jesus taking on responsibility for the problem AND presenting and offering the solution to it, as its very resolution, even as a universal, evolutionary principal of death and resurrection, you then respond by saying..

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Don't you DARE call it the truth. Don't - You - DARE.

So I would like to seriously invite you, AfterInfinity, to consider the possibility of a rather deep and profound humor here, even if, need be, at the expense of your revulsion towards me and the "abhorrent" nature (huh?) of what I am proposing as a fact, and a Biblical fact (see the Revelation of John) left otherwise uninterpreted until now, and one I am capable of making as a bonified Bride of Christ, who's been given by the spirit the power to recognize what's in our midst here - with you dear friend, the vital complainer/objector AND witness, both.

Hate me all you like for saying that Jesus Christ has crashed the gates of hell, for you and for me and for everyone, it doesn't change for a moment, the meaning and significance of what he's accomplished for us on our behalf, where what was impossible by human resources alone, is possible for God, as the resolution to the karmic paradox and yes, the end of hell, unto a just and fair judgement, at worst, and washed robes, at best!


Best Regards,

NAM, your brother, and the bride, in Christ.

P.S. I like your new avatar.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


The Bible is not widely regarded as fact. There's a very real reason they call it "faith" and "belief". Why? BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE.

Only manuscripts of third-person accounts and hearsay.

Fact is finding Jesus performing miracles on the street corner as part of a in-street seminary, walking up and shaking Jesus' hand, then sitting down to talk about his life as the messiah after his death. Really can't argue with that sort of thing. But unless you have a video of this, then it's a theory.

And like I said, I'm fine with that. My irritation is that the entire world is well on the way to the ninth circle of hell, and you guys are content to just sit there and invite people to a game of head-in-the-sand.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It's true that unless Christianity evokes a pschological and spiritual transformation in the world, as a formative evolutionary principal, that it's dead in the water, because here in the world of manifestation is where the rubber meets the road so to speak. This is why I would call myself an evolutionary Christian mystic who's goal is to contain, however fast or slowly, and in whatever way, however big or small, more and more of the sacred heart of Jesus Christ. Thus, unless we are seen and known by our love, there is no use proseletizing from a dead and dry spiritual heart.

One thing I do know for sure, is that there's much more going on than meets the eye, and that miracles and wonders still abound, although not always by expectation.

If you do choose to enter onto the path led by Jesus Christ, you'll get your signs and wonders, whether they be in your face, or of the most subtle variety.

I wish you all the best in your search and your quest.

Did I not so much as elicit a laugh though..?

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I guess that's the bottom line, really. That's my most basic problem. Christianity, as far as practical religions go, is useless. It's a vegetable, a crippled man lost in his own world.

And that is what irritates me most. Because for a religion that is intent on amassing as many followers as possible, to "save" their souls, what practicality does it serve besides playing on psychology to convince people that they're going to be alright if they do nothing to fight for this world?

It's the cheapest spiritual path, basically. It's Dollar Store religion, salvation for a buck ninety. Yet people continue to buy it, because they can't face a harder path. They don't realize they've sold themselves short, that they've picked a shoddy pair of glasses to look at the world with. But hey, it's cheap. People like cheap. It makes them think that, "Hey, I can make it work. It's just missing a few sparkles, that's all." But cheap doesn't mean good. And nothing cheap is very effective. That's why this world is screwed up the way it is.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Most of the third world charities are Christian inspired.. and some Christians really do "sparkle" and have a profound impact on those they meet, no matter that person's "stature" in society I know I do.

But the down home southern USA fundamentalist conservative literalist vareity who wave their arms and shout JayZUZ, then after church cuss out their kids etc. well I kinda know what you mean, it's just not "congruent" with the might and power of Jesus the person of the gospels.

But make no mistake, Jesus moved heaven and earth for us, but there's still much to be done, yes, I agree.

Edit to add: Remember too that people on the whole are pretty dumb and don't really "get" what Jesus was intending for them to realize and experience, and share with the world.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Obliterating hell is a good start though..

So now it's time to address hell on earth, so that thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven!

I have a few ideas, so I guess it's time to get to work eh?

Do me a favor and revisit ATS 10 years from now in the year 2022, and I'll U2U you a message as to the progress I've been able to make, even as the mere smallest part, of we.

God Bless,

NAM

What the world needs most, especially these days, isn't a karmic cataclysm, by our failure in love, but a cascading avalance make that a whole mountain of ascending and descending enlightened, compassionate bodhisatvas if you will, incarnating through us, even now, since there's no better time than the present and if not us, then who?

Who are these people? They are regular people like me and you, yet those who, in following the path of Christ and his heart, even his sacred heart encircled with the thorns of sorrow, are willing, each in our own way and in whatever way however "big or small" (that's in Revelation also) to go to the nth degree for the sake of a love that is so great and so vast that it is also transcends the sorrow and the suffering in a singular triumph that we are invited to share in koinonia with none other than Jesus Christ himself. Yet although costly for him and through him the first father of creation, for us the "Magnum Opus" or the Great Work is simply a matter of coming into an inheritance that we did not work for, and can do nothing to earn, deserve, or repay! It's free, freely given, freely recieved and then freely given again in turn, like some sort of organic, evolutionary principal of growth, in this case of God's love in the world within the framework of the brotherhood of man.

So it's a shared happiness and a joy, and a glorious celebration of all ages, nothing less, because if the least bit meaningful and significant, then by extension it means everything and is of the utmost significance and importance, something vital and essential, as the very divine principal personified and then extended towards us, in love and with love.

Like I said, it's enough to bring any reasonable person tearfully to their knees, while at the same time functioning as the hand that lifts us back up (if not out of the very pit), with a bright smile capable of wiping the tears from our eyes with joyful laughter and a heavenly "facepalm" moment at the expense of all our prior ignorance; the realm of the unknown unknown made known, seeing face to face as it were, clearly as if for the first time.

Christianity, or more specifically the Magnum Opus of Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah), it delivers, or at least extends an invitation of a limitless opportunity (with absolute liberation) "in spades" as they say or Big Time as I would say. It delivers or is capable of delivering this to the degree that God himself as the spirit of truth, life and love, will come and live among us, whereby we will be his people and he will be our God and he will call us, his son.

Yet even still, the whole of all creation yearns for the revelation of the sons of God..

So who will go first? Who CAN, in the face of the worst of the worst, and the most difficult of difficulties?

Jesus can. He already went the whole distance and there's no outpacing him, so we're as helpless as those fishermen, compelled at a moments notice, to drop their nets where they stood, to follow him. (except in our case, we don't have to pay for the pleasure with our very lives!)

It's a rich inheritance, Big Time!

To question what we as Christians are doing with that abundance of spirit, life and love, is only appropriate.

Therefore, it's abaundantly important and VITAL, that we Christians who believe in Jesus Christ as God-sent, that we have the courage to actually recieve what God is offering to us, and in the process OVERFLOW, so that God can pour out his spirit of truth and love upon earth, through us, so that upon invitation from the spirit and the Bride (which is Christ and the spirit of God wed to mankind, and co-mingled), all who thirst CAN freely come and freely drink of the living water of eternal life and love that flows like a river from the white throne of the living God through the city of God (see my signature image below).


23rd Psalm

The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;
Thou annointest my head with oil; My cup runneth over!
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the House of the Lord, forever.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want.

How about those people in Africa or Uganda? They are starving, children dying from famine and disease, because they don't know the name of Jesus?

He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for His name' sake.

In most cases, humans don't know the first thing about righteousness, and sending them off on crusades in the name of such is to send a child off in search of the pot of gold. It is foolish, and cannot end well. Many lessons will be learned, but much damage will also be done.

We don't know enough about righteousness to know it when we see it.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies;

So how about the people in the Middle East? Other third world countries? Their enemies abound, and yet there is no table set for them. Is God racist? If he created all of man, then they are his children as surely as you are. Why the discrimination?