Lets talk about "sources and proof"

I'm not much of a poster here. I have varied interests among many of the boards, and read a lot of different subjects, and all the replies, in an effort to deny ignorance and feed myself knowledge.

Lately, I've been a bit baffled by some of the responses I read. In particular, some of the threads regarding flat-out conjured theories. Reply after reply of people asking for cited sources, and verifiable proof, rather than reading the meat of the OP and opening their mind to the theory. The instant they see a sentence that defies their knowledge, they ask for proof in a very rude manner.

Don't get me wrong, when a real subject matter comes up, sources to relevant material should be expected. However, when someone creates a thread about something completely off the wall, clearly not talking about anything real, trying to express their creative mind in a manner that hopefully no one has come up with before, you people berate that person and make them look unintelligent and naive because they can't link an article that backs their thinking processes.

It should be frowned upon in this community to belittle the people that think outside the box, regardless of how physics-bending, world crushing, insane an idea it may be. Boards like this are supposed to be close knit communities, that's how you know who you can trust. I rarely speak because of a fear of public humiliation, and I can guarantee I'm not the only one.

TL;DR
If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Mothers used to teach that. Apparently not so much anymore.

Asking for proof and not taking a person's word for it without proof is not necessarily belittling them.

reply to post by mattdel


I am as open minded a person you will find....however this site was created to Deny ignorance in relation to the various "stories: out there not to promote half baked theories and conjecture that OP's put forth as the real deal with "Proof" or "Evidence that never pans out.

If a poster lays out a good theory with research and thought producing substance then good discussion and conversation is the result....but too many as of late are postualating speculation as fact because a you tube video told them so or some seer channeled it from somewhere.

Its not enough to say you have a video....and never produce it...not enough to post a video with the two words "watch it" and a title thats say undeniable proof...it does take research to give credence to a theory and then a discussion to draw conclusions. One cannot say its so and then shoot the people asking for more.

I agree, it is one thing to ask for pic, proof, sources, etc and it is another to be rude about it. I was hit very hard with this lesson in my very first thread. There were so many rude comments about this, page after page, when I had specifically set a time I was going to do so, do to daytime light and my availability to get it done, that I refused to post them and still do. People that genuinely wanting the information lost out because of the many many people who cant seem to be polite about their asking.

Proof is an abstract idea.
Proof to one may not be proof to another. (most people who get proof, dismiss it)

All sources and proofs are questionable. Everything.

I do appreciate your point and can relate to it also. At times it can be very tiresome and disruptive to the flow of a thread.

However, I don’t agree on asking for sources and citing can be attributed to close mindedness. I know it can come across that way, and of course people who already want to dismiss a view will resort to it time and time again but it is needed.

Even if an OP is merely writing an off the cuff theory or exploring thoughts, trying to cite can be very useful. It helps to provide other background work or similar or supported theories which may help people gain a greater understanding of said topics or related topics. It can also help add weight to the argument etc or help it grow. After linking theories or supporting theories, it can help assimilate new information which could potentially expand the OP.

(sorry, tired, not sure this is flowing to well lol)

Some people are from an academic background and it is in their nature and ingrained in them to seek for sources and citations. Rightly so. So although not accountable for everyone, this will certainly cover a proportion on ATS.

Don’t forget, a troll’s a troll. There are posters like that on here. Try to ignore them, or hope a MOD see’s there attempts. It is always going to happen, so go with it as it ain’t going to go away.

I rarely speak because of a fear of public humiliation, and I can guarantee I'm not the only one.

That is a shame and i hope that you'l soon feel more confident enough to become a regular poster. Try to remember though that there still is anonymity and you will be 'judged' for the quality of your posts and contribution. Not how badly you get attacked. It does happen, but it happens to the best of em, so your not in the minority and shouldn't feel like you can't post.

Proof is relative. Facts are relative. If someone doesn't believe the source of the facts are true, no matter how much "proof" someone provides, they will never believe. Someone could simply say "The bible is my proof," as many religious arguments I have been in with truly religious people end with. The same can be said for the UFO phenomena. I consider most of the The Disclosure Project to be factual, but someone who doesn't believe it will simply not believe it.

Even if someone was to provide a video, analyzed by professionals, proven to be true. Someone who believes it to be false will simply say it is edited and that the professional was hired/planted.

our definition of proof and evidence need to change. say two or three or a hundred people all see a ghost at the same time. According to modern day scientist that is not proof. See the nonsense in that? And i know someone will reply and tell me how it's not nonsense because of this and that but ultimately it's about attachment to belief system-in this case attachment to disbelief

My "source" is my friend's uncle's ex-wife's brother's son's grainy picture/video...could this also be my "proof"? Proof is subjective, and sources are questionable...

Originally posted by mattdel
The instant they see a sentence that defies their knowledge, they ask for proof in a very rude manner.

I rarely speak because of a fear of public humiliation, and I can guarantee I'm not the only one.

If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Mothers used to teach that. Apparently not so much anymore.

Absolutely right, you are definitely NOT the only one...

Awesome subject, extremely relevant to everything that happens on ATS.

The majority here seem to refuse to listen to what anyone else has to say.

Hatred and complete distrust of everyone else...

All of us have been lied to so no one is trusted.

Because of this the TRUTH is completely ignored.

"Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroys information, and religions destroy spirituality." ~ Michael Ellner

WHY SMART PEOPLE OFTEN CAN'T SEE THE TRUTH

"A good stage hypnotist can take 100 people out to the middle of a redwood forest and convince 90 of them that there are no redwoods to be seen. As the result, 90 people won’t be able to see any redwoods at all. The other 10 who refuse to be hypnotized can still see the trees. The 90 people who are under mind control will think the 10 people who still see the redwoods are “crazy”, “insane” or “nutjobs” or “conspiracy theorists” not realizing or even being able to realize, it is they, themselves, the 90% people who are the deceived ones…...Sound familiar? How can this be?"

"Psychologists use the term Cognitive Dissonance to explain the brain’s inability to consider opposing evidence. Governments intentionally try to create this disorder in the population. That’s how they can get away with creating events like 9/11. If the population in general didn’t have Cognitive Dissonance, they could never stage events like this. Cognitive Dissonance is a form of government sponsored mind control."
Source

What if everything you believed was a lie?

What if you woke up tomorrow and everything you had thought was true was a deception? A deception formed by people that stood to profit from your ignorance. Not just on one small area but every facet of your existence. Would you want to know? Or, would you be content with the life you had before you discovered the truth? Could you close your eyes and act as if nothing ever happened? What if you could see the ways that you have been deceived and the way that those that came before you were made to believe a lie? How valuable would the truth become? Would it make you change your habits? your routines? the way you talk or think or speak? Would it impact you or would you brush it off and carry on with business as usual?

What if after waking up you decided to respond to that truth? What if you started studying history and world events and, like a string of pearls, events were no longer random but contained a sequence? What if that sequence was repeating? What if while studying these events they began to seem familiar? LINK