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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
I don't think the Big Bang is unlikely, just that the Big Bang being "self-caused" is. God would not need something to set Him in motion because he is outside of Space-Time and the "laws" of the universe, the laws of physics. He would not be bound by them. The universe, though, is in space-time and so would be bound by them.
Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
In other words, if God is able to arise from nothing, why not a universe?
Regarding your second question, I wouldn't say that something being self-caused could only happen outside of the universe. What I was saying was that God, who is eternal (not self-caused), exists outside of the universe. So he wouldn't have to be self-caused, nor would He be subject to laws like cause and effect. Something outside of space-time could easily be eternal.
See, atheists also try to argue that the universe is eternal. Well if the universe can be eternal and exist within space-time, why can't a God that exists outside of space-time?
Could the universe arise from nothing? Well now is where you have to watch the video because that is one of the arguments that is addressed in it.
Originally posted by Mickierocksman
LOL, the whole video is on cause and effect? One point? Clutch at straws much?
WOW, if you think that makes a non-believers head explode…. well your religion is easily led (well yes, I suppose that all people that believe in any god are easily led)
Critically think for a moment if you can, what will you do when it’s proven that your choice is the wrong one?
An atheist has a better chance of ‘repenting’ if a god shows up and they beg forgiveness rather than a person that has followed the ‘wrong’ religion all their lives,
I hear gods are vengeful and don’t like people worshipping other gods.
So tell me, what do you believe your cause and effect will be if you have chosen incorrectly, let’s look at that point shall we?
Would you wee yourself and soil your pants if the aliens came back and said it was them that created us, or would you welcome them like an open minded free thinking atheist would?
Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
God, who is not eternal, would need to be self-caused in order to exist as God, or something of a higher power would have needed to create him, making him not god at all. Concepts of eternity and infinity can be disregarded as ideas that exist in our language only, and cannot be shown to describe anything outside of our thoughts and words. Would this mean God is merely a thought?
If the universe contains space-time, this implies that it is some sort of container full of whatever comprises the universe. Where does this container exist? In the same place as God?
If God can, then a universe can.
I wouldn't consider myself atheist, but it's apparent that both sides fight dearly for their interpretations.
Then what are you? If you don't have a stake in the "fight" then why are you arguing from the atheist position?
God exists outside of Space-Time; the universe inside of it.
God, by definition, is Eternal and exists outside of Space-Time. He does not require a creator.
Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
This is a fallacy, which further proves my point. If space-time exists inside of the universe, how can the universe exist inside of it? The universe, as a container for space-time, would exist in the same realm as god, who you assert is eternal and outside the universe, . If the universe exists in the same realm as God—like a balloon in water, then both are subject to the same laws as that realm, which you assert is a place where things are eternal, or their own cause. This implies that the universe may also be eternal or may also be its own cause, which we both agree doesn't seem likely. This is a contradiction.
We both know this is, of course, impossible to know. Did man know more about the universe thousands of years ago? I suppose one can only guess.
and so far only one of them has some fairly solid evidence and logic to back it up.
Originally posted by Prezbo369
reply to TheSubversiveOne
When asked the question 'do you believe in god?', if you say yes you're a theist.
Anything else, including 'I don't know'.....you're an atheist
There's no banner, no dogma, just like there's no banner or dogma for those that don't play table tennis.
Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786Saying, I don't know doesn't make you an atheist. It would make you an agnostic.
Now, regarding the video, I didn't make it so I can't speak for its "condescending" tone. I fail to see the irony of the video in relation to my posts since I'm not the maker of the video.
Finally, yes I realize I was inaccurate with the thread title. It wasn't on purpose. Merely a mistake. Human beings do that from time to time.
Now, is there anything actually on the topic of the video you wish to discuss?
Originally posted by Prezbo369
Considering the short length of the video and the single solitary point it attempts to make, your mistake is fairly major. One could even posit that you never watched the vid in its entirety or just didn't understand it.
This basically the cosmological argument, which is nailed with the reply "What caused the First Cause?"
The typical theist reply is along the lines of "god is infinite and outside of time and space" etc, which is really just people making things up.
How do you know matter hasn't always existed? how do you know the universe didn't exist in a different state before the expansion?
How do you know it wasn't merely a series of natural events leading to the expansion?