French Socialists Approve 75% Tax Rate for High Earners

Originally posted by SamLuv
You can be fed anything, and taught it tastes good. Evidently.....

Seeing so many people, without SUBSTANTIAL money of their own, defending the tax % on the countries richest billionaires, tells you how bad things are. Its like people ratting out robin hood, for trying to help them. Its LONG past time they paid a fair share. And a one time surtax, isnt even coming close to what is necc to inact real long standing change.

Unfortunately, until the internet is respected a little more, we will continue to base our politics in $$$ financial battles.. I think 10 years from now, $$$ will be illiminated as candidates are forced into next world online marketing, and campaigning. You cannot expect the reforms to be long standing, and severe enough to change anything, if any of the people who enact it, force themselves out of their positions.

Right step in the right direction, but this will be used as a sticker shock rhettoric complaint to the obama team.. no doubt Meh Romney will use this against Obamas so called socialist tactics

You have definately bought into the Marxist propaganda that has permeated western society. There is still hope though.
Until people can think for themselves, we'll keep sliding into this utopia some idiots have planned for the earth

I will say it again: the super rich aren't effected at all by these regulations. Wake the f up

reply to post by BobbyTarass


Thanks BobbyT. I did go back and read your first post and in doing so I have realized (well all ready knew but even more so now) that Americans as a whole know nothing about the outside world. I try to be well rounded and I am constantly looking for ways to educate myself and honestly politics is not one of my favorite areas. Though I have had several politics classes (and ones similar) my teachers or professors have always had a very negative/Americanized view.

I feel like Americans have been manipulated into being afraid of everything and everyone that is not "American" or a "democracy." I do not understand why everyone is so afraid (selfish?) and does not seem to want ensure that their countrymen/women have things like health insurance and a living wage so that fewer people have to be on government assistance?

Or maybe at 27 I am just still naive and overly optimistic.

But thanks again for your reply.

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Echtelion
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

OP you're so deeply WRONG. Where were during the last 10 years or so... what about governments eating in the hands of global bankers?

So when it's about making the ultra-rich pay, it's bad, but when it's working class people who get taxed and foreclosed of their homes, it's alright!

I couldn't care less about the French socialists...and I don't believe they are what they pretend to be, but if any government has got the guts to actually tax the major corporate PROFITEERS instead of doing their every bidding, that's powerful.

"Atlas shrugged"? Ayn Rand was a joke. She never got peer-reviewed and today she'd be the equivalent of Ann Coulter.

Wanna see an "atlas"? Look at the guys and girls who wake up at 6 in the morning to work their asses off 8-12 hours a day for a DECENT living. Look especially at the people who stand by their beliefs in the face of oppression, instead of "going with the flow".

You should start to reach Nietzsche instead of phony philosophers with questionable agendas.

edit on 5/7/12 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

The thing is, the ultra rich don't need to work and they're a relatively small group so taxing them would be fruitless and push them away.
The real people who are going to suffer from this are small business and lower class to upper middle class who are essentially the exoskeleton of western society.
What are you guys going to do when there is no money left to steal?

No. When the ultra-rich goes away, it will BENEFIT small business and lower class, not the opposite. Their parasiting the economy (and government) is the big problem. When they are gotten rid of, the people can reorganize production and politics on better terms, differently than now with completely shut down political structures run by mafias.

I really don't get how small business benefits from stuff like Wal Mart or Microsoft... that's the opposite. The bigger, more privileged gets to crush the smaller. That is called "monopoly", or consolidation. That is what happened to charter banks in USA with the sub-prime crisis. What have you got a few years later? Only 5 mega-banks running everything!

You people are either dumb, or you got your mind messed up in its logic, really bad, by mainstream propaganda.

Originally posted by Echtelion

Originally posted by HamrHeed

Originally posted by Echtelion
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

OP you're so deeply WRONG. Where were during the last 10 years or so... what about governments eating in the hands of global bankers?

So when it's about making the ultra-rich pay, it's bad, but when it's working class people who get taxed and foreclosed of their homes, it's alright!

I couldn't care less about the French socialists...and I don't believe they are what they pretend to be, but if any government has got the guts to actually tax the major corporate PROFITEERS instead of doing their every bidding, that's powerful.

"Atlas shrugged"? Ayn Rand was a joke. She never got peer-reviewed and today she'd be the equivalent of Ann Coulter.

Wanna see an "atlas"? Look at the guys and girls who wake up at 6 in the morning to work their asses off 8-12 hours a day for a DECENT living. Look especially at the people who stand by their beliefs in the face of oppression, instead of "going with the flow".

You should start to reach Nietzsche instead of phony philosophers with questionable agendas.

edit on 5/7/12 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

The thing is, the ultra rich don't need to work and they're a relatively small group so taxing them would be fruitless and push them away.
The real people who are going to suffer from this are small business and lower class to upper middle class who are essentially the exoskeleton of western society.
What are you guys going to do when there is no money left to steal?

No. When the ultra-rich goes away, it will BENEFIT small business and lower class, not the opposite. Their parasiting the economy (and government) is the big problem. When they are gotten rid of, the people can reorganize production and politics on better terms, differently than now with completely shut down political structures run by mafias.

I really don't get how small business benefits from stuff like Wal Mart or Microsoft... that's the opposite. The bigger, more privileged gets to crush the smaller. That is called "monopoly", or consolidation. That is what happened to charter banks in USA with the sub-prime crisis. What have you got a few years later? Only 5 mega-banks running everything!

You people are either dumb, or you got your mind messed up in its logic, really bad, by mainstream propaganda.

No,I agree places like walmart and other corporations don't have our interests at heart, but neither do the neo-socialists.
You think they will just leave in peace? Lol if they're pushed, they will get payback somehow on all of us as they're so intertwined with govts of all countries.
I believe there are enough benevolent people left in this world to make capitalism work, however, these big corporations don't play by the rules we all do.
The next step is carbon taxes. 10 years ago these "theories" were mocked but look how far we've regressed

They should get taxed more, the get more representation then the poor and middle classes, and they always find loop holes and tax breaks. im poor and have never had a tax break or loop hole, screw em all!

reply to post by leelo

Hi, seems you missed my post, I have replied and given some insight into the French economy.
Please see my posts page 6.
I thought my posts would at least provide some background of the French society, to help other ATSers in their debate.
But now all I can read is people having a go at each other: "you bloody socialist", "no you are", "no you said it first". And of course no reply or mention of what I posted, which makes me think that most people here are just trying to have the upper hand and convince the other ones, they do not spend time to read.
As mentioned below, this law is passing in France, so before saying France is a dumb country etc. (I have read it here several times), please learn a bit more about this country and its people.
I always read deny ignorance, but, except a few ATSers, I can only see debate about theory without linking it to the reality of what is going on.
My aim is NOT to defend this law, which indeed may have some bad effects. But I would like to set it into context, that for 5 years we have been doing exactly the opposite (once again, France have given back 30 million euros to Mrs. Bettencourt, the richest woman in France, for tax reasons!!!), and now look at our economy, not dead, but slowly dying, our industry, not dead, but on its knees, crime rate is rising, we are loosing control.
And the theory which I keep on reading here that you should not tax the rich people so that they invest their money in the economy would work (at least in theory) in disciplined countries (Japan comes to my mind). France is everything but disciplined.
Another example: Total (oil company) made 14 billion Euros profit (in 2010 or 2011), but managed to cheat their balance sheet to show that they are loosing money in France, so no tax paid.
Most of the money earned by the top investors is not put back into the French economy but directly into the pockets of CEOs/stockholders, and if reinvested, it is reinvested into stocks, not into our industry. This has been confirmed by several German CEOs, and that explains greatly why German economy is healthy and its industry strong.

Originally posted by KarmaComa
reply to post by leelo

 

Hi, seems you missed my post, I have replied and given some insight into the French economy.
Please see my posts page 6.
I thought my posts would at least provide some background of the French society, to help other ATSers in their debate.
But now all I can read is people having a go at each other: "you bloody socialist", "no you are", "no you said it first". And of course no reply or mention of what I posted, which makes me think that most people here are just trying to have the upper hand and convince the other ones, they do not spend time to read.
As mentioned below, this law is passing in France, so before saying France is a dumb country etc. (I have read it here several times), please learn a bit more about this country and its people.
I always read deny ignorance, but, except a few ATSers, I can only see debate about theory without linking it to the reality of what is going on.
My aim is NOT to defend this law, which indeed may have some bad effects. But I would like to set it into context, that for 5 years we have been doing exactly the opposite (once again, France have given back 30 million euros to Mrs. Bettencourt, the richest woman in France, for tax reasons!!!), and now look at our economy, not dead, but slowly dying, our industry, not dead, but on its knees, crime rate is rising, we are loosing control.
And the theory which I keep on reading here that you should not tax the rich people so that they invest their money in the economy would work (at least in theory) in disciplined countries (Japan comes to my mind). France is everything but disciplined.
Another example: Total (oil company) made 14 billion Euros profit (in 2010 or 2011), but managed to cheat their balance sheet to show that they are loosing money in France, so no tax paid.
Most of the money earned by the top investors is not put back into the French economy but directly into the pockets of CEOs/stockholders, and if reinvested, it is reinvested into stocks, not into our industry. This has been confirmed by several German CEOs, and that explains greatly why German economy is healthy and its industry strong.

So I guess you're calling me ignorant, inadvertantly because I don't agree that raising taxes and huge gov't is the answer to our problems?
I live in a socialist country and I love the fact that we can atleast ATTEMPT to make things right in the healthcare and gov't sectors.I believe capitalism has helped more than it has harmed, as opposed to full gov't control.
A civilized society needs infrastructure, not a cage.

You will see. These taxes will be the nail in someones coffin in the euro union. Right now they're playing hot potato, metaphorically.
Eventually this will cause another bailout because there is no confidence in the markets. Hopefully europe doesn't get slammed with more oil price hikes!

reply to post by HamrHeed

Hi, I am not calling you ignorant.
I just meant that the whole debate here turned into a battle between pro- and con- 75% tax guys, without looking at the full picture.
It is of course your right to think this law will put France in troubl - I will be sarcastic, we already are, big time.
I myself am not sure whether this is a good solution.
But again, France has tried the exact opposite, and it failed completely and brought France to its knees, so why not try it?
Plus, it was a promise made by Francois Hollande during his campaign, and the Socialist Party (as mentioned by someone else earlier, it is socialist by name only, it is far far away from its popular roots) won every election (president, parliament, etc.). So this is a clear message to Francois Hollande that French people want it.
Such a law may not work in US, but France... Again, I am not sure that this is the best solution, but the country needs money, and the government needs to get this money.
Regarding French people leaving France or hiding their money abroad, well, they were already doing it when Sarkozy was president and offering tax cuts for the richest.
So I think this law will not change anything, except making the rich people angry and join the middle & low classes in the complaint of how screwed up our economy & industry has become.

reply to post by Freeborn



that may be the case with you, I would like to think I would be the same- my point is that on a society wide basis what often happens is that by raising the tax at the higher end you end up bringing in less tax revenue overall and therefore the needy suffer ironically

reply to post by blueorder


I do agree with you here. It's why i suggest the closing of loop holes an Tax havens rather than just whacking up someones tax. If your avoiding the top rate of tax anyway through these methods, it doesn't matter if it's 50%, 75% or 100%. they still will be avoiding it.

I don't know how you would go about closing these loop holes and havens in a globalised world., but to me it seems the fairest way and considering we lose literally billions in tax evasion a good way of clawing back some of the money.

reply to post by blueorder


Not sure about that mate - recent studies have shown that it's irrelevant what the upper level tax limit is, under the current system there are that many loopholes and fiddles that the elite don't pay much no matter what.

I agree with woody, the priority should be closing all these loopholes and making the top earners and corporations pay what tax they should be paying, (it costs the UK an estimated £120billion per annum).

One that is done it would be possible to re-evaluate the whole tax system and take whatever necessary steps to ensure we had a fair and effective system.

How many of these austerity cuts / defence cuts etc would be unnecessary if a responsible government had an extra £100billion p.a. to re-invest back into our society?

Sadly this won't mean a thing if France's tax code is anything like the US. It doesn't matter how high or low you tax the wealthy because at a certain level of wealth they get out of most it. Effective tax rates are what we need to look at. If loopholes didn't exist for the wealthy I might agree that 75% is a bit too much, 60-65% would go far if they actually had to pay that.

Flat tax on everyone is stupid. Here in the US if you work full time at a min wage job your yearly earnings would be 15,080, your taxes would be 3,757 leaving you with 11,323. Leaving you below the poverty line in most States. Now if you're making 1,000,000 a year your taxes would be 250,000 leaving you with 750,000.

Taxing 1,000,000 at 65% would leave you with 350,000... at 75% of course... 250,000.

How did the economy break again? Who is being asked to sacrifice and suffer? Who is austerity being imposed on? This is the first time I have seen any leader even attempt to take to task the class that broke the economy. Are all rich people guilty? No. Not any truer than all poor people are leaches. I don't know what the solution is but it is clear to see that asking someone to live on 250,000/year is a lot kinder than telling someone to starve or live on the streets.

We are all in this mess together and I don't think it is fair to look at humanity like a pie chart that you can see an area that is not profiting and say okay cut that. An economy like this can't sustain itself forever, economies with such a massive disparity between the rich and the poor either implodes or creates slavery. Such disparity indicates that there has been an extreme amount of exploitation going on. No one should get rich by exploiting others.

For the billionares it hardely makes a difference AT ALL if the tax rate is 1% or 99%.

What are shell companies? What are tax havens? What is annonymous banking? What is offshoring?

CIP and RIP with such PSEUDO-socialism!

And the 75% is an absolute insult to everyone's intelligence. They think people are braindead retarded just by mentioning this...they think the people will salivate with joy.

What happened to substance over impressions??

reply to post by Freeborn



I am in two minds over this issue, on the one hand, like you, I think to myself what could I possibly want with all that money, my tastes are not extravagant if I have a chinese and a bottle of wine at the weekend and my kids are happy then I am happy- but I have never been in the situation of having excess amounts of dough so I don't know what it is like- though I agree that some fortunes seem ridiculous- on the converse I don't believe people "Owe" the state anything, the state funds wars and indulges in many waseful ventures (though it provides a safety net in terms of housing, health etc)- I am in a revolutionary mood though, so am very open to ideas

Here's what happens in reality when Socialists put forward their theories, the working class go broke:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

when the rich are gone, the factories that working class men and women work in slow down. It's simple, rich people spend more money and consumer spending is what drives an economy. So when the rich leave, guess what happens?

Consumer spending slows down! This thing in France will play out like it always has in history, not good!

Once again, class warfare is used as a means to divide and conquer. Inflame the emotions of the people, make them think that the government really needs to tighten the screws on rich people, and then get seize power for the government.

Didn't we learn anything from the Soviet Union? For that matter, from any totalitarian government? Every totalitarian political faction has a scapegoat. Soviet Union had capitalists, Nazis had Jews, North Korea has... well, anyone who won't walk in lock-step with government propaganda. Just blame all your troubles on that group, make people hate them, and then take all the power you want. A simple three step plan toward complete dominance.

We know from history (as one poster remarked, Reaganomics) that slashing taxes benefits the economy. Once the French economy falls even deeper down the tubes, this will only be more evidence that this sort of government just doesn't work.