Has to be something other than Evolution or God...

The debate over which is more likely, evolution or god seems to be missing something. There must be another option. I definitely don't believe the almighty being creation theory, and evolution seems to have major holes also. So what's missing?

Seems to me that if evolution was the case...than everything that was evolved FROM would no longer be around. A good example being humans evolving from monkeys...well there are still monkeys and all look like monkeys....there's no 'half human' monkeys. There would be monkeys in all different stages I suppose of this evolution even today(maybe?)...but there isn't.

If creationism and evolution are both wrong...what else is there? I've never looked into this so forgive me if it has already been discussed, just something that is on my mind.

Originally posted by SGTSECRET
The debate over which is more likely, evolution or god seems to be missing something. There must be another option. I definitely don't believe the almighty being creation theory, and evolution seems to have major holes also. So what's missing?

Seems to me that if evolution was the case...than everything that was evolved FROM would no longer be around. A good example being humans evolving from monkeys...well there are still monkeys and all look like monkeys....there's no 'half human' monkeys. There would be monkeys in all different stages I suppose of this evolution even today(maybe?)...but there isn't.

If creationism and evolution are both wrong...what else is there? I've never looked into this so forgive me if it has already been discussed, just something that is on my mind.

That isn't how the theory of Evolution works. Evolutionists believe that given enough time, apes and humans evolved from a common ancestor, even though there is no evidence of this ever occurring. It's not observable, not testable, not valid in any way.

Besides, the general premise behind the two are this - was the universe created by design, or chance. Is there something other than design or chance? you could say the universe just "is", but that is wrong, as it goes against several laws of our reality. For one, we know that the Universe will eventually reach an end, so we know it has a beginning. I don't think there's really anything other than it being between Evolution or God, and one only one can be right.

Besides, the way I see it is, if God is real, mankind is in trouble- we need to find out who he is and what he wants, because he's in control. If God is not real, mankind is in trouble- we're specs of dust on a rock flying through space at 68,000 per hour, and no one is in control.

What if creationism and evolution are both right?

What if we evolve but with intervention every so often? Kind of a kick starter for different species.

Why does it have to be one or the other when both seems more feasible? At least to me.

For one, we know that the Universe will eventually reach an end, so we know it has a beginning. I don't think there's really anything other than it being between Evolution or God, and one only one can be right.

reply to post by Lionhearte


We actually don't know the Universe will reach an end. It's one of those things we just cant get into our heads, to us, everything that starts has to end somewhere. Think about how much we know about the universe, very little if anything is known about how it all started, where, when, and so on. If we have no understanding of what we would call a beginning, how can we possibly say there is an end somewhere down the line? I guess humans just can't think along the lines of something lasting forever.

I'm with OP on this one. Theres major problems with evolution and I just dont buy that it was all done by god.

Something weird happened early on (cambrian explosion) and it does not fit with either god or evolution.

Aliens? Its possible.

I often wonder if there is some kind of seed that blows about in space seeding life on suitable planets.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
I'm with OP on this one. Theres major problems with evolution and I just dont buy that it was all done by god.

Something weird happened early on (cambrian explosion) and it does not fit with either god or evolution.

Aliens? Its possible.

I often wonder if there is some kind of seed that blows about in space seeding life on suitable planets.

I've thought about the alien part of this puzzle, and to me seems more believable than one super awesome almighty father of everything.

Your seed idea is something I have never thought about or seen anywhere until now, it's actually a good theory. Like I said before, with how little we know about how life works throughout the universe many things people would call crazy may actually be true. It's part of humans not knowing everything, and some don't like to think about that...

reply to post by SGTSECRET


Have you seen Prometheus? That seems to explain it nicely......................well maybe they oversimplified it a bit.

Here are a bunch of thought provoking articles on the origin of man you won't find in your average PTB controlled media outlet or library:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


I haven't seen it, but thanks for the tip i'll have to check it out.

reply to post by SGTSECRET


Humans evolved from more primative sapien species. They think sapiens evolved from monkey like creatures, but not the actual monkey species we have around today. The monkeys we have today evolved again after the last ice age. If the environment for the creature exists, then the creature will keep evolving very similarly over and over until things change enough that the template is no longer viable.

Many ancient creatures span the time period of more than one ice age. Meaning that humans are not the first creatures of any signifigance to survive an ice age, or that many species re-evolved in the past as well. Evolution is a product of natural selection which is determined by environmental conditions and God, or pure coincidence. Whichever you preffer.

reply to post by SGTSECRET


This is a no brainer. Everything evolves and or changes form. Mountains become valleys,streams become rivers, trees become paper, ice becomes water,ect . No doubt that physical things evolve. Spiritual things do not evolve. It takes a spiritual will to create something physical. Physical things cant create themselves

Originally posted by Theophorus
reply to post by SGTSECRET

 

This is a no brainer. Everything evolves and or changes form. Mountains become valleys,streams become rivers, trees become paper, ice becomes water,ect . No doubt that physical things evolve. Spiritual things do not evolve. It takes a spiritual will to create something physical. Physical things cant create themselves

Trees don't become paper, we turn them to paper, ice doesn't become water, ice and water are the same and can easily be changed between the two forms, liquid and solid. That's not even almost evolution...nice try. Mountains changing shape into other geographic features has to do with weather, erosion, plate tectonics and such, nothing to do with a living being changing it's form over time. Yes, there are living things on the mountain..trees, animals, bugs, however the dirt and rock that make up this mountain do not make it a living being.

Whats wrong with the "God did it" theory.

Well. we are supposed to believe that god is omnipotent, and created us the earth the sun and moon and some fluffy clouds for himself to stand on.

If he's so powerfull why is the earth so tiny when compared to the universe? the earth is less than a speck of dust when compared with some other planets and when compared to the entire universe the earth is much much less than a speck of dust, its mind bogglingly BIG out there. If a god is so powerfull why did he choose to populate something that is less than a speck of dust? On a universal scale the earth is like a microbe hidden amongst a galaxy..

To me, the OP is a great example of why evolution should be taught in school. its like anything the majority of people know about evolution is that its a theory to replace god, thats absolutely not true.

Evolution is a process that happens after something has formed or has been created, not what happened in the start... I admit I don't fully understand evolution myself, that could be because they didn't teach it while I was in school. (or I fail to research further lol)

God could of created us and used evolution as the ultimate struggle for all of its creations, an uncontrollable challenge for suvival. Why would he do that? Maybe he(she) done it all for science lol.

I think there are other options but I feel we'll never know how or why we exist, no matter what option you believe is true.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by SGTSECRET


We still look like monkeys, and anyone who claims they don't look like a monkey is nit-picking (see what I did there? )

You seem to lack a very basic understanding of what evolution entails if you really think that what we evolved from is still around in the form of modern monkeys. Every living thing evolved from something before it, we didn't evolve from monkeys that are still around today, instead we share a common ancestor. Thinking of it as a family tree helps.

Yes there are other options besides evolution and creation but none of them have scientific evidence behind them the way evolution does. Lamarckism is the closest thing to a real scientific alternative though the idea was discarded as evolution became more and more evident. Alien intervention is another alternative explanation, the idea that life on Earth is an experiment by alien beings. I'm sure if you're creative enough you can come up with your own ideas.

Originally posted by SGTSECRET

For one, we know that the Universe will eventually reach an end, so we know it has a beginning. I don't think there's really anything other than it being between Evolution or God, and one only one can be right.

reply to post by Lionhearte

 

We actually don't know the Universe will reach an end. It's one of those things we just cant get into our heads, to us, everything that starts has to end somewhere. Think about how much we know about the universe, very little if anything is known about how it all started, where, when, and so on. If we have no understanding of what we would call a beginning, how can we possibly say there is an end somewhere down the line? I guess humans just can't think along the lines of something lasting forever.

one word:

entropy.

reply to post by Awen24


Entropy doesn't necessarily guarantee an end to the Universe itself. Even a Universe of empty space where all energy and matter have flown apart is still a Universe, it hasn't ended, it's just empty. Also who is to say that the laws of physics will always continue applying exactly the way they do now. The four forces of nature as we understand them might not have existed prior to or immediately after the Big Bang, so why should we assume they will continue to function in a Universe dying of Heat Death? Maybe they too will break down and things will get truly weird.

Hey op, you could try looking at the work of James Shapiro a critic of darwinian theory with his theory of cellular genetic engineering extending the work of Barbara McClintock.

The theory is some 50 years old and has been confirmed experimentally, But I'm betting the Darwinites who frequent this forum have never heard of it or learnt of it in school.

For example experiments with protozoa have shown that when the protozoa is placed into a hostile environment it will splice it's own DNA into a hundred thousand pieces and reassemble a new protozoa that is well adapted to the new environment. Simply amazing! Little genetic engineers! I don't think I need to emphasize the implications of this.

This is not random and is not explained in anyway by the dominant paradigm, In my mind it in no way disolves the mystery but adds to it. But it's a good place to look for alternatives. I agree we definately need alternatives, the modern synthesis has run it's course. Don't be persuaded by the those who suffer from chronic scientism.

In my opinion, consciousness is THE fundamental property of the universe and the source of all things, some relate it to the quantum field, that which trancends time and space. We will not have a complete theory of life until we address the issue of consciousness.

Simply stated could we consider information to be just as much a part of the makeup of the universe as is matter and energy?

In fact by way of logic it's the source of matter and energy as the quantum field is the fundamental foundation of reality. Materialism died over a hundred years ago, most simply haven't come to terms with it yet.

It wasn't too long ago that scientist emphaticaly denied there were any quantum effects in living things, we now know this is not true. What is a mystery is how coherence came about and how it is maintained.

DNA is but a store of information not the source, Information is non material and separate from the physical characteristics of DNA. I believe DNA interacts with the quantum field and through the quantum tunneling in enzymes it taps into the source field of information to select adaptions.

How on earth could a protozoa reassemble itself on the fly to adapt to it's environment? A self correcting adaptive software program ?

Oh, BTW Lamarck was ridiculed, true. Turns out he was correct. Epigenetics, aquired traits passed on through generations has been confirmed. The scientist here need to do some catch up.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


If human beings had not come into existence would you still wish to have this same outcome? Or is it simply because we're special that we must have had a helping hand, or a creator?

It's astonishing how arrogant human beings really are. We're just not that important for any other being to have wanted to hide behind the curtains and whisper lines to us when we seem to forget.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Whats wrong with the "God did it" theory.

Well. we are supposed to believe that god is omnipotent, and created us the earth the sun and moon and some fluffy clouds for himself to stand on.

If he's so powerfull why is the earth so tiny when compared to the universe? the earth is less than a speck of dust when compared with some other planets and when compared to the entire universe the earth is much much less than a speck of dust, its mind bogglingly BIG out there. If a god is so powerfull why did he choose to populate something that is less than a speck of dust? On a universal scale the earth is like a microbe hidden amongst a galaxy..

Exactly!!!!

The unimportance of us in the entire scheme of things is so overlooked.

We can't see beyond our noses to know what is out there, but we place such importance on ourselves, that we think up an imaginary being who created us. Mind boggling..

reply to post by SGTSECRET

What if God created evolution?