Dont be belligerent in public, it could get you killed.....

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Yup, in close quarters a knife is way more dangerous than a pistol.

A pistol will not cut you when you grab it.

Originally posted by Agarta

Originally posted by lacrimaererum

www.azcentral.com... ngnews

was he armed? or was he just shouting and screaming ?

Did you actually read the article in the first link you provided or did you purposely leave this info out to spark controversy?
From the article.....

Sgt. Trent Crump said a man who showed up with his 4-year-old child for swim lessons saw the young man in the parking lot with a baseball bat acting "high" and "behaving erratically," including threatening a child. The man called 911. Independently, park staff also called 911 on the man for reportedly striking a stick or bat against the building.

Two responding police officers contacted the man and at some point, he charged the officers, Crump said. Each officer fired two to three rounds, Crump said.

so yah he was armed and he charged them

edit on 4-6-2012 by Agarta because: (no reason given)

If that is what happened then they were justified. However if you or I had shot him for charging us with a bat we would have been arrested for murder. After all he only had a bat and we had evil guns blah blah...

reply to post by lacrimaererum


Im all for detaining a crazed member of society (especially if they threaten a child).. but shooting this man seems outrageous, even if he charged the officers with a bat...

I can come up with plenty of other options to take him down; tases, a strong kick to his legs, baton, etc..

Whatever happened to using whatever means necessary to detain someone without using deadly force?

reply to post by Isabelx

Whatever happened to using whatever means necessary to detain someone without using deadly force?

This country is on its way back to a little law and order...

Hey, you, in the back of the line, were you squeezing the Charmon over there?

Yeah my general rule is when an edge weapon gets involved everybody gets cut including the wielder.

People have no idea how dangerous knives can be. they think they do, I mean come on it's a knife dangerous obviously. But it's not until you start studying knife techniques from an expert or systematic system (ie, kali, silat) that you learn just how versatile and ruthless a knife is. Plus they can strike from unexpected angles and from counter-intuitive directions

Run like hell from a guy with a knife. don't try any aikido or any other mcdojo technique taught to disarm a knife cause you will get cut. just run. And if the guys got a knife and I have a gun. I'm shooting him. plain and simple. The cops were in the right on this one.

Awesome avatar BTW. I figure your up somewhere near Pt. Hueneme. Seen an SSN once underway cruising on the surface outside avalon, catalina isl. Amazing sight. Especially since it surfaced about a quarter mile behind the ferrys wake. We must have sailed right over it and never have known. Wonder if the ferry captain metered anything strange under the boat. Anyways, back to the thread.

reply to post by kawika


Its just unfortunate that American Citizens have been brainwashed into believing that this is the normal and expected reaction if you step out of lin today. Execution is the automatic response.

Let that sink in. Execution.

The US government along with many other countries have shoved down the throats of citizens that we are all in the middle of a WAR on TERROR. However it is nothing to do with the PR BS they are constantly peddling about muslim terrorists. It is very simply those in power terrorising their own citizens. As a result , people are living in terror. They are scared to do anything. This applies to everyone. The cops are also terrified. This is why a shoot to kill policy is so commonplace right now.

People protest against wars.

This war is so sublte no one realises how deadly it is. The war is being waged against you. It is all governments terrorising their own citizens.

It is well overdue for citizens of the world to say 'STOP' to those in power. If they are not told to cease and desist right now, just imagine the kind of world your kids and grandkids are going to be living in.

reply to post by kawika



Even our bear bottoms are being regulated!

How are we supposed to know if we'll Enjoy the Go without giving it a little squeeze first??

reply to post by BASSPLYR


The photo is Dixon at Point Loma, San Diego. I really miss the 80's.

The boats really look big out of the water when you see them in dry dock.

We used to usually had one tagging along with us whenever we sailed any great distance.

I have studied the bo a little, probably the best defense against a knife or as in the really old days a Katana. Takes much time and practice to get really good with it though. It goes with along whenever I am out hiking or walking. Edged weapons creep me out, will not use them.



Reach out and touch someone.

reply to post by lacrimaererum

Its just unfortunate that American Citizens have been brainwashed into believing that this is the normal and expected reaction if you step out of lin today. Execution is the automatic response.

Let that sink in. Execution.

You are wrong. I say the cops were right because I would have done the same thing.

Assault is assault. If I am out hiking and this guy comes at me with a bat, don't care what are his intentions he would be needing medical care post haste. I will not go easy on him at first hoping he will change his mind. Once the decision is made to defend, there is no holding back. Everyone who is trained, is trained to make the bad guy change his mind about hurting you, and to do that you have to really hurt him. Best if you can do that without any injury to self. Shooting him would be my first choice. Splitting his skull with a bo, a close second.

Shotokan is known for that overwhelming, fight ending single blow (after blocking). Not a first strike but a devastating counter strike. Jerks that go around thinking they can menace someone with a bat, and not lose their life are likely to be surprised. Just like that thing that happened in Florida. If you are walking toward someone with a bat, they are going to in defense mode as soon as you move toward them. This is the essence of that Florida law everyone is talking about. Make someone fear for their life and they are justified in taking yours.

Be polite, because you can not tell by looking at someone how dangerous they are. Actually, looking at cops it is pretty obvious they are very dangerous.

Crazy is no excuse. Stupid is no excuse. Having a bad day is no excuse. Be good or get stomped.

I'm with ya. You absolutely cannot tell how dangerous a person is from looking at them. You can get an idea, sometimes, if you watch the way they walk or move that they may have some serious training or experience. But, not always. That's why the people who can really fight don't advertise. they also know that the guy next to them they are mouthing off too may know more than they do. The empty barrel rattles the loudest. Never met a legit warrior who went around bragging or advertising how badass they are. Warriors are more the silent type in regards to that. also, something to factor in when picking a fight with a stranger.

I can toss around 220 lb men with relative ease. but the most lethal man I've ever met was 6,2 and 145lbs. I could pick him up quite easily and toss him, if he'd ever let me. It was no matter that he wasn't strong. this man was superbly trained and very talented. He opened up so many things for me martial arts wise. I'm a good fighter. this guy makes me feel like a little child trying to punch a grown up. He is that good. but here's the catch you'd never know if you met him. he's a street musician and never talks about MA with anybody unless he gets to know them really well.

I know two navy seals. One active one retired. One you would think was some sort of runty nerd. the other a over weight cholo convict covered in tats. Neither is the case with either of them and they look totally like everybody else when you see them walking by. You would never suspect that they are trained professional killers.

Cool that you are into the Bo. I know a few good Kung Fu staff forms. Yin Shou Gun (Northern Shaolin) and 36 Techniques (Southern Chinese,more combat orientated) form (which has some name in mandarin I can't remember) Staff's are very useful when you know what you are doing. Can even be used in tight places if you know the proper technique. Not limited to being in some open field or parking lot in it's use.

Great minds think alike.

As for the cops shooting the guy. Yeah thats how it works. you charge somebody with a deadly weapon and your bound to get shot eventually. Especially if you're stupid enough to do it to the cops.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Yup.

This guy was willing to threaten armed cops, imagine what a danger he would be to the average unarmed civilian.

We are all better off with this guy out of action.

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by Juggernog

 

Probably just trying to live until retirement.

A worthy goal...

Yea well, my father managed to retire after 30 years on the Dallas PD, without a tazer and without killing anyone.

reply to post by Juggernog


I know what you mean, My Father did 26 years as a Security Police Officer in the Air Force then 24 years as a Deputy Sheriff and all with out a shot or tazer.

reply to post by Agarta


Never had to shoot anybody either during all my hours on watch.

But then again, people knew better than to do something that would require me to shoot them. Because I was well armed and they knew I would if it was the correct course of action.

In this case the victim was also the cause. Poor judgement, temporary insanity, call it what you want. Cops were 100% correct in their actions if the facts are correct as reported.

I agree, however, I feel that any police, military, or security force should switch to non lethal tranquilizers rather than using lethal force. Killing our fellow man because of a temporary loss of reason is a shame on us all because we accept it as the norm.

reply to post by Agarta


Well, how about this.

You go and do the cop job for a few years, carry no weapon, let me know how that goes.

Will be waiting.

reply to post by kawika


I sense agitation in your post I did not mean to take this in that direction. I was not talking about being unarmed simply changing the projectiles to something that puts them to sleep rather than killing them. I don't no why they don't do this in the first place sense there is more money in the incarceration than in the death, and we all know its really about the money. Of course they would carry lethal rounds in the case they are deemed necessary (ie where the perp is armored or the officers are out gunned both in amount of perps of stronger firepower).

reply to post by Agarta


Clearly we come from different training backgrounds.

For example, the 1911, 45 caliber pistol was developed for its exceptional stopping power. Previously the problem had been that in jungle fighting the bad guys were all hopped up on drugs and after shooting them with a smaller less effective weapon they kept coming and killed our guys.

This little nugget of knowledge in my background makes my view of the situation different than yours, because you have never heard of such a thing. In fact the military has mostly changed over to the 9mm which is a much less effective weapon. The special forces still use the old 45.

Now, seeing someone with a bat, one might assume he was on drugs or otherwise impaired, which might make him more resistant to pain.

So you see, if force is needed, one should use force. Overwhelming, crushing, effective force. Anything less risks the life of the good guys.

And, though it is a lot to ask, bad guys should consider the consequences of their actions, and stop before they start. Failing to do this forces the good guys to stop them, sometimes permanently.

American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War using the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, found it to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[7] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the late 19th century; the heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen.[8] The problems prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.[8]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by kawika


Yes I agree, however you are bringing warfare into the domestic situation I am referring to. I warfare I agree there must be "Stopping power" as long as they continue to get better on accuracy. But, when it come to domestic situations tranqs would be my desired projectile. If the perp pulls a gun by all means put your own and let the led fly.

reply to post by Agarta


When we had the animals on the loose from that exotic animal farm, most of the animals were killed, not tranquilized. For 2 reasons, one, they did not have tranquilizers, and 2, they don't go to sleep right away and are still dangerous a short time after being tranquilized.

A human, shot with a tranquilizer, on drugs is going to bonk both cops before going sleepy bye. Bullets have an immediate effect, which is why they are used.