abioGenesis hypothesis: scientific or just a silly idea? What say you?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Yes - I read your thread, but there's one thing that you forgot to address in your thread.

Energy - what is it?

They say that it can't be destroyed nor created - but can only be transformed into one form or another.

So in your theory of noThingness - where does it fit if everything was created from noThing?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Alright, well done. But....
The most important part of that hypothesis leaves us with an open ended opinion amoung peers.
Given enough time? I'm not sure there is enough. My bet is there is not. And there is an infinite Creator that is the answer to all that is seemingly impossible to us. Humans just aren't that brilliant. I suggest you always keep that in mind.

complex processes can happen naturally given enough time.

An infinite amount of time. Even then barely a maybe.

reply to post by edmc^2

So in your theory of noThingness - where does it fit if everything was created from noThing?

It clearly doesn't fit, because it's absolutely wrong. Energy can be created and destroyed. But it only really happens during the process of a big bang or when a Universe implodes. When you put all the negative and all the positive energy together the result is nothing. The average state of reality at this very moment is in fact nothing. The energy we can measure is merely an isolated displacement/fluctuation of the fabric on which reality is built. When you put all those fluctuations together (including fluctuations of the negative Universe) they don't drift into the positive or the negative range... it's like a wave form with equal troughs and crests.

reply to post by randyvs

An infinite amount of time. Even then barely a maybe.

Nothing needs an infinite amount of time. Some things may require a huge amount of time to take place, but the moment they do take place lets you measure the amount of time it took, thus giving you the finite amount of time required. But there's no reason to assume time is not infinite, because it's merely a measurement of one event to the next, it's so fundamental and essential to reality that it very well may be infinite. It's certainly a lot more logical to assume time is infinite rather than assuming there's this mysterious infinite intelligence that has always existed for reasons I have yet to hear.

reply to post by CB328

We can do tests to prove scientific theories, but there is no proof whatsoever of any god.

God is not a scientific theory. and Jesus Christ is all the proof I need for God.

Chaotic

It's certainly a lot more logical to assume time is infinite rather than assuming there's this mysterious infinite intelligence that has always existed for reason I have yet to hear.

Maybe you should look for the reason why we exist first ? You know, then move up the levels of existence.
Also you suggest we are the highest order of existence. I think that's absurd considering the answers you don't have.

Especially if you try and tell me nothing can produce something. Wouldn't that be a trick. I will never understand the immpossibilities men will resort to, to escape the authority that a Creator has over his creation.

reply to post by randyvs

Maybe you should look for the reason why we exist first?

There is no "reason" why we exist. Well that would be better said as there is no "purpose" for why we exist. The reason we exist is because the Universe is huge, random, and has a lot of time to let stuff happen. It's as simple as that.

Also you suggest we are the highest order of existence.

I have never once suggested that. There are probably life forms out there which are much more intelligent than us. There may even be life forms that exist on a higher dimension... but that doesn't make them gods nor does it imply evolution doesn't apply to them.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

I have never once suggested that. There are probably life forms out there which are much more intelligent than us. There may even be life forms that exist on a higher dimension... but that doesn't make them gods nor does it imply evolution doesn't apply to them

There may be life forms that exist in another dimension. Of which you wouldn't know the first thing about. Or be able to put in some petri dish. Which in turn leaves us with the possibility of what you say is so absurd. That is a closed mind. Blinded by an education or lifestyle or some other reason. IMO.

Any kid from anywhere in the world when asked what do you get from nothing will reply with the correct answer and yet you've blinded yourself to it. Nothing comes from nothing.

Originally posted by CB328
How is it not silly to believe in an omnipotent, immortal god that no one's ever seen???

We can do tests to prove scientific theories, but there is no proof whatsoever of any god.

What silly is to believe that non-living chemicals can intelligently come together to become living organisms without intelligent guidance.

Yet when we can prove that Life can only come from pre-existing life - this is silly.

know what I mean?

anyway - later...

reply to post by randyvs

There may be life forms that exist in another dimension. Of which you wouldn't know the first thing about. Or be able to put in some petri dish.

Just because I don't or can't know much about such types of entities doesn't mean they aren't governed by certain logical laws of reality. Everything has a logical scientific explanation...

Any kid from anywhere in the world when asked what do you get from nothing will reply with the correct answer and yet you've blinded yourself to it. Nothing comes from nothing.

That's because kids can't usually think about reality in terms of quantum mechanics and probabilistic wave forms.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

That's because kids can't usually think about reality in terms of quantum mechanics and probabilistic wave forms.

So you agree with me ?

Do you know the terms of quantum mechanics and probabilistic wave forms to even be a reality in another dimension ? Perhaps you can explain the limitations a being from another dimension would not have to contend with when moving back and forth between said dimension and ours ? You've practically admited there could be a God ! but only with the limitations that you understand. Again you have closed your mind.

Have you attempted even the slightest bit of research yourself into the most recent theorys for the abiogenic production of life? Or are you here to ignorantly mock the idea because youd rather die than live without your pitifull baby murdering deity?

Type Abiogenesis into google then sort for videos.... its really that easy...

reply to post by Wertdagf


Can't tell who your comment was for, but I thought you would at least know your way around this site enough by now to indicate.

Anyways no and I don't think I want to if I'm going to end up believing something can come from nothing. And all that hocus pocus. Sorry I'm content with reality.

Nothing in anyone of your petri dishes will forever produce one thing and that is No thing. Period.

Abiogenesis is a hypothesis, it is not proven. So many of the questions you posed are left unanswered. No scientist will tell you we know how it happened or that it is a fact.

As for being a silly idea, abiogenesis is a testable scientific hypothesis based on natural laws of chemistry and physics. Creationism is based on nothing but an ancient book of myths and is unprovable. So which one of them is a silly idea?

It is a sign of a weak mind to pretend to know when we do not know.

Originally posted by randyvs

Especially if you try and tell me nothing can produce something. Wouldn't that be a trick.

I understand your premise that something will not come from nothing....but you seem to contradict your own logic with your 2nd statement

I will never understand the immpossibilities men will resort to, to escape the authority that a Creator has over his creation.

If we accept your premise that nothing cannot produce something....where the hell did this " all powerful creator" come from?

Use the same logic you used earlier in your statement.....Something cannot come from nothing.

reply to post by randyvs

Do you know the terms of quantum mechanics and probabilistic wave forms to even be a reality in another dimension ?

Probability describes the mathematics of chances, dimensions describe the mathematical geometry of different levels of reality. Quantum mechanics (which is essentially the science of probabilistic reality) applies to all dimensions.

You've practically admited there could be a God ! but only with the limitations that you understand. Again you have closed your mind.

No I have admitted their could be advanced intelligent life forms living in other dimensions. If you want to think of them as Gods go right ahead.

reply to post by Shark_Feeder

Use the same logic you used earlier in your statement.....Something cannot come from nothing.

Don't you know that all forms of logic break down when it comes to the creator? Infinite. Always was. Always will be. Was never created yet still exists. Or he created him self. lol.

The question is more fundamental than whether something can come from nothing. It's whether something can always exist without needing to be created in the first place.

Everything has to come from some place. And if you try arguing energy can't from nothing, you must accept that some energy has always existed... meaning God could exist.

Quite the dilemma eh?

Everything has to come from some place. And if you try arguing energy can't from nothing, you must accept that some energy has always existed... meaning God could exist.

Let me expand on this actually and offer the believers a theory which could explain how God could actually have always existed, since they are unable to even offer this much. Lets assume time is infinite. Now assume energy cannot be destroyed and cannot come from nothing. If these two conditions are true, and evolution is also true... it's possible that God will evolve from the energy at 'his' disposal. However, if time is infinite... one cannot correctly claim to know when God came into existence. That energy has existed for an infinite amount of time into the past, but evolution is a finite process taking a finite amount of time. The math of this situation would indicate God has always existed and his existence is much like a probability wave form spread over an infinite amount of time.

But of course none of this is true because energy can be created and destroyed and no energy will last an infinite amount of time.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Don't you know that all forms of logic break down when it comes to the creator? Infinite. Always was. Always will be. Was never created yet still exists. Or he created him self. lol.

Ahhh! But just because I don't know how something came to be doesn't mean it is absurd to believe it exists.

I'm not sure how Chaotic came to be but I know loud and clear she does.

Originally posted by randyvs
Ahhh! But just because I don't know how something came to be doesn't mean it is absurd to believe it exists.

Your logic continues to contradict itself...

Especially if you try and tell me nothing can produce something.

Apparently the idea of energy breaking down through wave-forms into solid matter is completely absurd?

Whereas an all powerful creator with no beginning, end, or possibility as we know the laws universe...is not absurd?

Are you unaware of the glaring weaknesses in your arguments?

reply to post by edmc^2


Given that life at its basal form is simply self-replicating organic chemicals I'd say abiogenesis is scientific.

When put up alongside a magical (ie divine) explanation abiogenesis stands up even better as it is a naturalistic idea of the origin of life that does not invoke the supernatural. When it comes to science a natural explanation will always be more plausible than a supernatural one.