The Truth About the Garden of Eden Story

What OP has i opinions and not fact. Well isn't that just the way the clergy acts?

AND

While we are in the garden of Eden.

God made Adam and Eve. They were naked. They ate from the forbidden tree and suddenly they felt compelled to cover up. God got angry and tossed them out of Eden.

SO

Isn't it fact that God wanted them (and mankind) to walk around naked?

Isn't it fact that people who clothe themselves act against the will of God?

Isn't it then also a fact that anyone demanding us to cover our nakedness are defying the Lord?

EDIT:

Someone mentioned that they were ashamed of being naked. Why would they be ashamed? They were living in the perfect place crated by a God. Why should they be ashamed of what God created just because they ate from the tree of knowledge?

Let me approach this from a different angle... the idea that God lied because we didn't die is the premise of the thread so perhaps we should focus on what happened rather than what could have. After eating of the fruit Adam and Eve were shamed by their nakedness so they did receive knowledge and this part of what God said of the tree was true.

How then can you dismiss the rest of what God stated when the death is a slow one and not so much immediate personal death but a societies death (due to knowledge of weapons and greed and hate and lust and all the vices we see manifest today - the tarot readers, the astrologists, the witches, the channels etc..) and the instant death of your soul that got tainted by the occult practices that the tree of knowledge brought to man.

People don't see their deadness because they have yet to live their lives before succumbing to the death God is warning about. So many feel outrage at Hitler for 6 million dead and yet since Roe v Wade over a million babies had been murdered. This is what being dead in your heart and soul is...

Sure, knit-pick that a fetus isn't alive... reconcile your thought patterns with God, not me.

EDIT: Whoah, too early for me apparently, thats a BILLION aborted not a million ... sorry for my mistake and it was a bad one

reply to post by HolgerTheDane2


never been humbled after orgasm? The release leaves one feeling spent, ( both physically and spiritually.if you wile your way into anothers bed) This is why throughout the Bible God is against fornication and especially casually for anything other than procreation.

Why? Perhaps the hidden manna has something to do with it and by draining ourselves of that energy we diminish our worth as spirit... we keep grounding out like lightning...

reply to post by SilentKoala


I don't trust either God (in genesis) or the serpent.

A Jealous god who hides his intentions, and keeps us in a box,
or
A Sneaky snake who opens our box and dumps us out in the wilderness to wander...

Both of these guys are pricks only out for their own selfish intentions.

Neither of them ever asked me what I wanted.

I believe in God, but this guy in the bible is not him.

Where's the father/teacher figure in this story? Both of these guys are content to leave us without the knowledge of truth. God wants blind obedience and the Snake is fine with us destroying ourselves.

I have morality but it is my own, and can not be derived from either of these characters even if I wanted. They are more of a polarity that a TRUE God would use to help me not only learn to make my own choices, but to grow into better and better thinking/feeling.

Originally posted by anoncoholic
reply to post by HolgerTheDane2

 

never been humbled after orgasm? The release leaves one feeling spent, ( both physically and spiritually.if you wile your way into anothers bed) This is why throughout the Bible God is against fornication and especially casually for anything other than procreation.

Why? Perhaps the hidden manna has something to do with it and by draining ourselves of that energy we diminish our worth as spirit... we keep grounding out like lightning...

I live with my girlfriend and I also started meditating again. Let's just say that yes you are right about the manna thing. It has become a problem. Grounded yes...

Now I see how double posts happen... Yay!

Originally posted by Bleeeeep
reply to post by racasan

 

There are more than I'm willing to point out and I do not agree with picking apart someone's post to prove a point.

To answer your question, and give you an idea of what to look for:
He states things like, "Orthodox Christians tell us the Devil began his career of evil in the Garden of Eden.", but Orthodox Christians do not tell us this. I don't think that statement is his true opinion or even bad paraphrasing. I think its just one of many deceitful attempts at leading a reader through his opening post.

Let's say the Devil's dubious acts were judged by Orthodox Christians to be a career. Wouldn't the Devil's career be best described as acts in defiance of God? And wouldn't it be best told that Orthodox Christians would say such a career had started in Heaven, not Eden? And wouldn't it be best told that this paragraph and the opening post purposefully leads the reader, on a more opinionated than fact based narrative, to give merit to their premise?

Not only is the opening post based heavily on opinions, it is deceitful in its nature because he uses opinions as if they were facts. He's spinning long yarn, but what his motive is for such long yarn, is what I do not understand.

So are you saying the talking snake wasn’t Satan/Lucifer/the Devil

Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’

Well genesis 3 agrees with you, it was just your average common or garden talking snake

Except

Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Seems to be saying something else

Well whatever if it just a perfectly normal talking snake it was still correct which must mean bible god was lied - right?

you people do realize you believe in a book that was written by people who KNEW the earth was flat and who KNEW the universe revolved around the earth don't you? talk about embracing ignorance..tell me again how a snake talked and how a women was made from a mans rib...sounds totally legit

reply to post by HolgerTheDane2


wow Ok. since Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and were able to distinguish sin ans since they were ashamed by their nakedness and since all of man kind are descendents of Adam and Eve we are all bound by there decision. God gave them clothes to cover there nakedness and since God gave them the clothes it would be apparent that he wants us to cloth ourselves now because we are aware of our nakedness and so clothing ourselves is NOT a sin to God because he gave us the clothes to cover ourselves.

The fact is:
God is decieve them
Serpent decieve them, or better to say: thwy not tell full truth to them.
Both of tehm give choice to eve and adam.
It is Not said NOT to eat, or MUST GO to eat fruit.

..far as i know duality is here so called god or evil here, depend on from what perspective u look on this issue.
Also, is it a serpend afallen angel, who disobey god, he refuse to harm humans. Maybe im wrong, maybe that happened later. Not sure now.
Anyway, what te heck a serpent doing in eden? Why god put that tree in eden? Even here as is today, free wil is main power of humans,even in eden god and serpent does not have power to affec humans.
Fact is howbothof them guiding humans to stay at their side.
Between lines, bible and other religious books is similar, weird similar, toweird.
Yes, there is spiritual rhings also.
But, it seems all is about, brain, genetics, and human potential, origin of men, and women .. and for sure free will.
As al pacino said im not puppetier. .. Think puppetiers are not god or serpent. Neither of them have power on humans. Justguidlines as in adam ineve, of course, not full truthfully guidlines.
But interesting is how devil never directly kill a humans. And god is go mad a lot of times, and kill humans directly.
At least according story in bible, who will know.

Another angle of exploration:

The fruit is a con job with a loving purpose. God/Tao/Infinity/The Universe played both roles... both God and the Serpent. Man was always meant to be in the image of God(s), which includes free will... but starting from a position of absolute ignorance (by design... remember).

The test was NOT whether to eat the fruit or not, but whether they would accept responsibility for having eaten it rather than pass the blame to someone else. Both Adam and Eve failed this test, and thus had to learn what it means to take responsibility for yourself.

Only then can you exist in the "higher" state of being with others who also know how to take responsibility for themselves while being a part of a community and having relationships with others who may not behave the way you would.

The eating (and subsequent fall) was supposed to happen, and will happen again "when" another consciousness is created with the ability to have the free will to think as they choose and thus be on the path to participating in the higher states of being where this rule is understood intuitively and with personal experience as to WHY it should be followed.

Eve blamed the serpent, Adam blamed Eve.

We had a choice, yes... but we are also supposed to grow through this experience enough to have enough understanding and awareness to see that God/Tao/Infinity *also* had a choice, and that choice was to create a loving trap to provide us with the opportunity to TRULY understand through personal experience what it means to be an independent self awareness within the community of all awareness that ultimately is summed up as the awareness which is aware of all that which it is possible to be aware (thus God/Tao/Infinity).

God had a choice too. We're partners in this crime, but it's we who have to take responsibility for our actions. God took responsibility, the serpent didn't blame anyone else. Only Adam and Eve tried to blame someone else. Once this understanding is fully attained... the grace, or enlightenment, or whatever other limited word we want to use to describe this reconnection can be obtained. Individually and as a whole.

We were never separate... therefore we could never do something outside of the bounds of what God wanted to be available to us. We simply have to realize that with this freedom comes the responsibility of accepting responsibility for what you do.

If Infinity wants to evolve, the only thing it can do is go back to zero and rediscover itself. This is why Man is following the same path. The ability to think, but no understanding and having to dig themselves back out. This is just one of the games Infinite Possibility plays with Infinite Time.

The fruit was planting the cognitive/mental seed of "choice" for the first time in mankind, and we have to learn all the ways of what it means to truly have choice... not just be programmed to always make the "right" choice. The only way to truly choose to be in sync with God/Tao/Infinity is to have become out of sync and experience the process of deciding for yourself to get back in sync.

Namaste.

Originally posted by alkesh
you people do realize you believe in a book that was written by people who KNEW the earth was flat and who KNEW the universe revolved around the earth don't you? talk about embracing ignorance..tell me again how a snake talked and how a women was made from a mans rib...sounds totally legit

To a prior post the reply is "there is nothing hidden that won't be revealed."

To this post you surely realize that science and understanding by man according to his limited understanding has taken many a backward step until corrected. Those who claimed the earth was flat aren't the same as those who claim God is the liar. The lies are self-evident if you had the Will of God as a guide.

Today we have understanding of cloning from a single cell. As to how God does anything who knows other than God Himself?

The Word is the inspired word of God, not the delusion of interpretations by man.

reply to post by racasan


Nah man. That's not at all what I said or meant in any way. Is there a particular part of my response that you're having trouble with? I can try to help you if you tell me which part you got lost at.

oh and btw. you misinterpreted the genesis verse too.

Originally posted by kevinski
reply to post by HolgerTheDane2

 

wow Ok. since Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and were able to distinguish sin ans since they were ashamed by their nakedness and since all of man kind are descendents of Adam and Eve we are all bound by there decision. God gave them clothes to cover there nakedness and since God gave them the clothes it would be apparent that he wants us to cloth ourselves now because we are aware of our nakedness and so clothing ourselves is NOT a sin to God because he gave us the clothes to cover ourselves.

Mathew 6:30

God indeed does clothe us (like a building block upon which our soul depends on life in the flesh.)

To take literal meaning from a word that has multiple meaning within our existence is to deny the many truths for an apparent and immediate understanding and that understanding is dependent upon our ability to fathom everything from which nothing came into being.

Who knows everything when the starting point was nothing? Only God and those who have been Blessed with understanding.

The message was never meant to be understood by all because they quite frankly are incapable of discerning truth from fictional accounts or even historical accuracy (of which history is written by the victor.)

continued in next post due to lack of space

cast and the burning pit...
what does it mean? I include these all but you need read only the KJV as it is using the word "cast"
Mathew 6:30

bible.cc...

New International Version (©1984)
If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

New Living Translation (©2007)
And if God cares so wonderfully for wildflowers that are here today and thrown into the fire tomorrow, he will certainly care for you. Why do you have so little faith?

English Standard Version (©2001)
But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

International Standard Version (©2008)
Now if that is the way God clothes the grass in the field, which is alive today and thrown into an oven tomorrow, won't he clothe you much better-you who have little faith?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But if God so clothes the grass of the field that is today and will fall into the oven tomorrow, does he not multiply more to you, Oh small of faith?

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
That's the way God clothes the grass in the field. Today it's alive, and tomorrow it's thrown into an incinerator. So how much more will he clothe you people who have so little faith?

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Therefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

American King James Version
Why, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

American Standard Version
But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Douay-Rheims Bible
And if the grass of the field, which is to day, and to morrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith?

Darby Bible Translation
But if God so clothe the herbage of the field, which is to-day, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, will he not much rather you, O ye of little faith?

English Revised Version
But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Webster's Bible Translation
Wherefore, if God so clotheth the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Weymouth New Testament
And if God so clothes the wild herbage which to-day flourishes and to-morrow is thrown into the oven, is it not much more certain that He will clothe you, you men of little faith?

World English Bible
But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, won't he much more clothe you, you of little faith?

Young's Literal Translation
'And if the herb of the field, that to-day is, and to-morrow is cast to the furnace, God doth so clothe -- not much more you, O ye of little faith?


"Crafting bricks instead of purchasing them can be a nice project that can not only give you a use for the dried lawn grass leftover from giving your grass a trim but it gives you a feel for making the old style adobe bricks. The crafting brick project is an outside craft.

As long as you have one brick you can create a mold that can be used over and over to form more bricks. Adobe started with clay so you'll need clay"

voices.yahoo.com...

Why would dead grass be thrown into a fire? It could easily be burned in the field instead but since all look to Biblical translation as being about "cast into the pit" it is naturally assumed that the pit is a burning place and by definition cast translates to throw...

en.wikipedia.org...

"Glass casting is the process in which glass objects are cast by directing molten glass into a mould where it solidifies. The technique has been used since the Egyptian period. Modern cast glass is formed by a variety of processes such as kiln casting, or casting into sand, graphite or metal moulds."
..........................................................................................
So why the distinction you are wondering? Look at life from a physics standpoint... energy can't be destroyed, it merely transforms. The life force is the energy that resonates in all things and when God says cast into the burning pits of hell most think it is a specific place with a slam dunk rather than the description of that place... or its affect.

Expounding upon this when the gates to the pits of hell are opened think magma. When you aren't in the book of life you will be consumed by fire and "cast" into stone. That grinding and gnashing of teeth is by souls trapped for eternity in their new life as a rock that has a slower life cycle and doesn't resonate on the higher frequency of living breathing in the flesh embodiment.

God promises salvation for those of a loving nature and the signs of His return is imminent. Want to become a rock that is your choice... want to free your mind of opinion, talk to God and KNOW what life is really all about.

Mathew 6:30 is all about God clothing us like he clothed the grasses but the firing of the grasses with clay in a mold creates a building block and just like the transformation of clay + grass to an oven (which were made OF blocks and fire cured the formed blocks into strength) God is implying that He will mold us if we only have Faith.

We are not to worry about clothing

What then is clothing to grass? Life and a life cycle... potential. Being cast "into THE oven" is where they baked bread not disposed of dead grass. Being cast into the pit is where lower frequencies will be abandoned.

Do I know all this for sure... who can be sure of anything other than God but I do know this interpretation resonates with more logic to me than a portal to the underworld being opened up. I would be interested in the original writings rather than translations as there is a world of difference in subtle variations. Cast into and cast in seems pretty close to be misinterpreted if you view things along a particular slant. Either way only grass being fired in a kiln is cast and it is either implying cast into (making an oven) or cast in (making the bricks) which is stilll a moot point to the meaning as it means we are molded by God and as small as a blade of grass is, it can be made into a building block.

I don't think there is any other way to interpret the comparison of God clothing grass or clothing us. We are the clay and He is the potter. Adding the soul we become a building block. God has our backs covered... some of us anyway. We all have a purpose and are the manifestation of the soul in the flesh... the grass into the brick... the growing into the strength of a building block upon which life can perpetuate. But you need to accept the soul first...

Think outside the box others built around you.

... but meh, you go your way, I'm going mine.

reply to post by anoncoholic


The tablet itself is about 300 lines long. A fragmented poem, definitely.
However, it is the same story.
Except, no one murders anyone.
The head god of the pantheon makes his judgement call, and everyone accepts it.
End of.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


It's not a word, per se.
It's the fact that you accuse the OP of factual error and deceitful intent,
and yet provide no explanation.

I realize you said that it would take you too long to point out the plethora of problems you perceived in the OP, but for the sake of a good debate, a few would go a long way.

S & F SilentKoala

Originally posted by SilentKoala

The very first death threat uttered in the Bible was given by God. "In the day you eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which is in the midst of the Garden, you shall surely die."

And some may argue that a merciful God provided them a way out of the burdens of immortality. The burdens of never knowing the fear of being alone, or the fear of dying... or perhaps even fear itself. A forever existance devoid of fear .... and the side effects of it.

Originally posted by kevinski
reply to post by HolgerTheDane2

 

wow Ok. since Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and were able to distinguish sin ans since they were ashamed by their nakedness and since all of man kind are descendents of Adam and Eve we are all bound by there decision. God gave them clothes to cover there nakedness and since God gave them the clothes it would be apparent that he wants us to cloth ourselves now because we are aware of our nakedness and so clothing ourselves is NOT a sin to God because he gave us the clothes to cover ourselves.

Well fact remains that he did not want them clothed in the first place.

He gave them clothes as in "Oh well if you have to cover up, I have these nifty things I knitted yesterday because I knew that you would fail my test. Which was designed to be failed hence the reason why I put it there."

not bad.

a coupla things tho:

serpent = transformation (skin shedding). The presence of the snake tells us that this is a story about change and transformation. Death also is a symbol (word) for change. Taro major #13.

Eve may have picked the fruit, but Adam ate first.

and no analysis of the creation myth is valid without also considering the role Lilith played.
Lilith = Adam's first wife: made of the same stuff he was made of.

Eve was fashioned from Adam's rib: the chaste part of the body, apparently.... are you sure it was God who made Eve?


It is not necessary to understand; it is enough to
adore.
The god may be of clay: adore him; he becomes
GOD.
We ignore what created us; we adore what we create.
Let us create nothing but GOD!
That which causes us to create is our true father and
mother; we create in our own image, which is theirs.
Let us create therefore without fear; for we can
create nothing that is not GOD.

reply to post by SilentKoala


That is one of the best interpretations I have ever read.

I hope you will interpret the other stories as well. Jonah and the whale, Lot's wife, the burning of Sodom, Jesus's crucifixion, and all of the others. I would be sincerely interested to hear what you have to say one those subjects.

You have brought illumination to us, and I deeply thank you for it.