Daniel; "Many shall run to and fro"

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posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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I want to offer some thoughts on the interpretation of the statement in Daniel ch12 v4; “many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase”.

Even in the nineteenth century, people were beginning to interpret this in terms of the rapidity of movement made possible by the invention of railways. Since then, of course, we’ve developed even faster methods of transport, and people cross the globe on a regular basis. At the same time, there’s been as rapid expansion of other kinds of knowledge. My grandfather was once given “Discoveries and Inventions of the Nineteenth Century” as a school prize; this was already a very thick volume, covering the whole ground from steam-engines to coal-tar colours, but who would venture to write a one-volume sequel for the next century?

On the face of it, then, this verse is a picture of the modern age, with the implication that these conditions presage the approach of the end-times.

However, if this verse is really meant to portray the conditions leading up to the end-times, it is very oddly placed in the chapter. It almost looks like an afterthought, coming as it does just after the story has been brought to a climax in Michael’s triumph and the resurrection.

This verse has a very different look if it’s taken in conjunction with a passage in the last chapter of Revelation.
In Daniel ch12 v4, we find;
“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end.
Many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall increase.”
In Revelation ch22 vv10-11, we find;
“Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy”.

If we take these two passages together, it seems clear enough, as all commentators recognise, that the first portion of the Daniel verse is deliberately reversed in the first portion of the Revelation passage. Circumstances have changed, the end has arrived, and so the seals are no longer necessary.

But this leads on to the discovery that the same must be true about the second portions of the two passages. We can use them to explain each other, on the basis that Revelation describes the reverse of what Daniel is describing.

In order to make this work, we need to recognise that the “running” in this Daniel verse is about the movement between doing evil and doing right. Then there is a clear contrast between the two passages.
Daniel says that people will be running backwards and forwards between these two options.
Revelation says that people will be standing still, remaining with whichever option they’ve chosen.

So the complete message of Daniel ch12 v4 would be as follows;
This book, the knowledge of God’s plan, is to be kept sealed; full knowledge will not be revealed until the time of the end. During the interval, people will be hesitating between the rival attractions of evil and righteousness. Nevertheless, over the long-term, the world-wide knowledge of God will increase.

While the converse message of the Revelation passage would be as follows;
Now that the time of the end has arrived, and God’s judgement is being revealed, this knowledge no longer needs to be hidden. Whatever choice people have made, between evil and righteousness, that will be their final status. They will be judged on that basis.




edit on 16-4-2012 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


That is a very interesting take on it. You may very well be right. After all, the Word of God has already been poured out on the whole world. Three years ago, I had heard on the radio that there were only 3 places left that had yet to receive the Word of God, and missionaries were already being sent there. By now, I'm sure everyone has heard.

Besides, it seems WAY more likely that tiny villages and tribes in the middle of nowhere are receiving the Word of God over knowledge of, say, Engineering or something.

Either way, it must have been divine revelation. I mean, there's proof in say, Revelation. How would John the Revelator know that islands and mountains were the same? (Revelation 6:14) As far as I know, fishermen and shepherds from the 1st century weren't going on routine voyages underwater to discovery this.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Lionhearte
 

Thank you for those comments.
I'm certainly not the first person to offer a different take on "many shall run"- one translation has a footnote explaining it as "in search of truth".
But it was finding the Revelation passage and linking them together that really convinced me.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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In my humble opinion, "knowledge shall increase" refers to "all knowledge". It is important to study all scripture and compare one passage with another, but I think knowledge of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is only part of what is being said here. Knowledge is increasing many times over every 8 or 10 years and as mankind makes its trek into the coming years it will continue to grow. I find it truly amazing that even our "knowledge of history" is also increasing as each year passes. Our knowledge of the cosmos is forever increasing and slowly, but surely, our knowledge of God is increasing. Not just in terms of the amount of believers, but true understanding of the scriptures. Which I guess is what is happening here.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by Texasbud
 

One of the factors influencing me was the question;
"Why does Daniel feel the need to say this? How does it fit in with the message?"
I'm confident about the significance of the contrast, between rapid movement and standing still.
So I think Daniel is talking about whatever kind of knowledge is most relevant to that point.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Texasbud
 

One of the factors influencing me was the question;
"Why does Daniel feel the need to say this? How does it fit in with the message?"
I'm confident about the significance of the contrast, between rapid movement and standing still.
So I think Daniel is talking about whatever kind of knowledge is most relevant to that point.

I think the message is two-fold. For me, it is clear that Daniel is speaking of "relevant knowledge up to that point", but the message encompasses all knowledge since then and the knowledge to come. It's as if God knew we would be having this conversation....lol......Obviously, you have a very good point and I agree with it, but I just can't get away from how it fits in my mind concerning the knowledge of today.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Texasbud
 

I'm a little handicapped by the fact that "knowledge shall increase" doesn't have a direct parallel in the Revelation passage to shed light on things, which is why that brief explanation was almost an afterthought,
To complicate matters, I've just seen in another Bible footnote that the Septuagint Greek translation says "wickedness shall increase", which is a third, completely different, option.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Can we get Daniel and John sorted first.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by smurfy
 

What kind of "sorting" do you want to happen?
This is an attempt to understand one aspect of both of them.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I agree and I am aware of the differences in translation throughout the Bible. I attended a Seminary and was quite surprised when I learned that "heaping coals of fire" on ones' head was a hospitable thing to do. I had grown up thinking it was a reference to "killing one with kindness". In actuality, in that culture, people wore turbans that held coals of fire to keep their heads warm. We were instructed to love our enemies and "heap coals of fire on their heads." Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew were used in writing the Bible and a guy from Texas is usually not in the know when it comes to those languages. When you think about it, knowledge can lead to wickedness. Look at what cell phones are doing to our highways and young children.....even adults find it difficult to "visit" each other without taking constant breaks for cell phone texts and calls. I think it all fits.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by Texasbud
In my humble opinion, "knowledge shall increase" refers to "all knowledge". It is important to study all scripture and compare one passage with another, but I think knowledge of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is only part of what is being said here. Knowledge is increasing many times over every 8 or 10 years and as mankind makes its trek into the coming years it will continue to grow. I find it truly amazing that even our "knowledge of history" is also increasing as each year passes. Our knowledge of the cosmos is forever increasing and slowly, but surely, our knowledge of God is increasing. Not just in terms of the amount of believers, but true understanding of the scriptures. Which I guess is what is happening here.


I can agree to that, knowledge increase becomes exponentional as knowledge increases, or at least the technology does, and therefore making the probabilty of exponential knowledge more likely than not. What you do with that knowledge could be toward evil or toward holy, there is no third option as in 'filthy' unless you consider the filthy as those who cannot be anything else. (The filthy be filthy) That is a big enigma. However, the whole passage starts with "Let" There is one 'If'' though, and that is history, whether written in the same way as the bible, or today's internet, human nature is enough to know that the truth will not always be out.
edit on 16-4-2012 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Interesting thought but you overlooked a detail.

Revelation 1
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

John is having a vision of the time of the end. The "day of the Lord". In that time everything is unsealed. But the thing to remember is that the "day of the Lord" was still a long way off at the time of John. But we are given a clue when that time would be.

Matthew 24-14.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Your Idea may have merit. Sometimes in the bible a statement can have multiple meanings. Daniel 12-4 and it's statement on knowledge being increased could mean religious knowledge as well as knowledge in general.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:41 AM
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Good analogy OP. Very logical to me... I remeber running to and fro a few years back, and even though I have NO clue which is the true religion, and actualy am not a fan of religion at all. In my heart of hearts I just want to Know the creator, find his will, and DO it! I don't want anything to do with the disgusting immoralities of this planet. No matter the pressure or persecution I face daily from it, morals are the only way to go...



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by ntech
 

Thank you for those comments.
So you're really backing up the "knowledge of God" interpretation, then.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 

Thank you for your comments.
I'm glad you found it helpful.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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And don't forget Joel 2:29, 30.

The 12th chapter of Daniel is speaking of wisdom, not general knowledge (verse 3). Verse 10 gives it away:

The "wicked" just won't get it.

What is it?

The Power Elite, mostly through the Vatican, that renowned throne of Satan, have done everything in their power to stamp it out of existence, to wipe it off the face of the earth. And yet, it just keeps popping up. At the end of the "Age" (yes, the Bible is most certainly a book of Astrology), would come the end of the Dark Night, 13,000 years in length, which is one half of one 26,000 year-long Precession of the Equinox. Evangelist folks like to call it the "Latter Day Rain".

The answer?

GNOSIS.
edit on 17-4-2012 by SimontheMagus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by SimontheMagus
 

You make some very good points indeed in the first half of your post.
The second half takes the discussion away from the interpretation of Biblical passages.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte
the Word of God has already been poured out on the whole world. Three years ago, I had heard on the radio that there were only 3 places left that had yet to receive the Word of God, and missionaries were already being sent there. By now, I'm sure everyone has heard.


Yes, the "Word of God" has reached every last corner of the planet. Just remember that according to Paul, readers of the Bible are to "rightly divide the word of truth". Unfortunately, all too many people, many of them in positions of great power on this planet, take it all far too literally. No wonder the world is in dire straits. Here's a small sampling:

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

"If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

edit on 17-4-2012 by SimontheMagus because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-4-2012 by SimontheMagus because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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Just to re-cap on the useful portion of the comments a couple of posts back;
The Joel ch2 vv28-29 passage is about the pouring out of the Spirit.
Daniel ch12 v3 says that "Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament".
The theme of v10 in the same chapter is that "the wicked shall do wickedly" while "many shall purify themselves", whiuch is very important, because it is so similar in theme to Revelation ch22 v11- the same verse which I was contrasting with the second half of Daniel ch12 v4.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


With what I know of multiple fulfillments yes. Both meanings could be valid. If a verse has only one interpretation you may not have looked hard enough.





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