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Introduction to the Divine Council by Michael S. Heiser The sons of God.

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posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:09 PM
i thought this article was cool so ima post it. Its pretty long so bear with me while i post most of it. Here is his link btw. He has a few other articles on his site but this one seems to get the point across. Seems religious conspiracy worthy IMO.

Introduction to the Divine Council
Michael S. Heiser, PhD
To this point we’ve learned that even before the very beginning of creation God
was not alone. There was a second, uncreated person with him, who shared his own
essence and was an independent, but not autonomous, being. As Christians we are
familiar with this second person by such terms as “the Son,” and we believe that this
second “deity person” became incarnated as Jesus of Nazareth. In the Old Testament,
“the Son” is manifest physically and visually, but is referred to by other names, such as
Wisdom and the Word. There are several other names taken by “the Son” in the Old
Testament, and we’ll get to them. For now, though, we need to look at the other
members of God’s family and their relationship to “the Son.”

I put “the Son” in quotation marks and used capitalization in the above paragraph
to draw your attention. God’s co-ruler and co-creator, the second deity person we think
of as “the Son” since we are living after the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of
that person, is qualitatively different than God’s other sons. That will be made clear as
we progress. And if you just asked yourself, “what other sons?” you’re tracking—and
you wouldn’t be alone. God’s other sons are the focus of this chapter and the next. What
we’ll discuss here and in the next chapter is one of the most neglected, misunderstood,
side-stepped—and critical—doctrinal areas in the Old Testament. In fact, it is the
backdrop for most of New Testament theology.

I don’t make that last assertion lightly. I’m not saying that without an
understanding of this issue you can’t comprehend the Bible. I’m saying that without it
you can’t comprehend it precisely or fully, or even well. You will inevitably miss out on
the context for much of what goes on in the New Testament, a context understood and
utilized by the apostles at every turn. Remember back in the introduction when I talked
about how the church has been missing the ancient context for its theology for millennia?
How we’ve lost the ancient Israelite and first century lenses for understanding what’s
going on in the Bible? Well, if the first two chapters haven’t demonstrated that for you,
the next few will. Read prayerfully and closely, because you’ll never look at your Bible
the same way again once you meet God’s original heavenly family—the sons of God.
We’ll start our introduction with an obscure but important passage, Job 38:4-7.
God is challenging Job, who wanted to know why he was suffering. God’s general
answer in Job 38-42 is that he doesn’t need to explain himself because he’s God. Part of
that response reads:

Where were you [Job] when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Speak if you have understanding!
Who fixed its dimensions? Surely you know!
Or who measured it with a line?
On what were its bases sunk? Who set its cornerstone,
When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

There’s a lot to be said about this passage. First, you probably noticed that God is
basically asking Job (sarcastically) where Job was when God created the earth. God
refers to the time when he laid earth’s “foundations,” fixed and measured its
“dimensions,” sank its “bases,” and set its “cornerstone.” Second, you also no doubt
noticed the underlined portion. We learn from this text that, at the very moment of
earth’s creation, there were already a number of “sons of God.” These sons of God
shouted for joy when they saw God’s creative power and handiwork. You might be
thinking the sons of God are the angels. That’s a common assumption, but it’s wrong
since the Hebrew word for angels (mal’akim) is completely different than the Hebrew
behind “sons of God” (more on that below). Third, you may have discerned that the two
lines of verse 7 parallel each other. That is, the sons of God who shout for joy are also
identified as “morning stars” who “sang together.” Such parallelism is the major feature
of Hebrew poetry: one line renames or repeats another. I won’t lapse into a lecture on
Hebrew poetry—just make a mental note of the parallel, that the sons of God are
identified with the heavenly starry host.

The passage raises some questions. Maybe you’re wondering if we can be sure
that God’s description really does refer to the creation of the earth. I’m going to keep my
promise to save all the data that proves this for an appendix.
By way of just one proof
for now, though, you should know that the Hebrew words in Job for “laying the
foundations” are the same words as used in other verses that undoubtedly refer back to
the creation of the earth (see Psalm 102:25 [Hebrew, 26]; 104:5; Prov. 8:29; Isa. 48:13;
51:13, 16). One verse in that list should jump out at you right away—Proverbs 8:29.
That’s the passage we read in Chapter One, where Wisdom claimed to be at God’s side
serving as his assistant in creation! This is clear biblical testimony that the sons of God
who watched the show were watching God and his co-creator in action. They were all
there—before there were human beings.

Why would I emphasize that last line when it seems so painfully obvious?
Because many Christian pastors and professors teach that the phrase “sons of God” refers
to humans! Granted, they do not make that mistake in this passage—the supernatural
character of the sons of God is irrefutable in Job 38 since humans were not yet created.
However, in other passages, it is argued by not a few that “sons of God” refers to human
beings. The reason for this misguided conclusion requires a bit of background.
In the original Hebrew, the phrase “sons of God” in Job 38:7 is beney elohim.

You might recognize elohim as one of God’s names. In fact, it is the most common name
for Israel’s God, despite the fact that its “shape” or spelling is plural. (Yes, you read
correctly—plural). Hebrew actually has two generic words for “God” (or any other
foreign “god”): the more common is el; the other is eloah. In English we normally make
words plural by adding “-s” or “-es” to words (“rats”; “horses”). In Hebrew, plurals of
masculine nouns end with “–im” (and God is always described with masculine pronouns

in the Bible – “he”; “him”). The word elohim is the plural of eloah; the plural of el is
The above discussion means that the word elohim all by itself can refer to either
“God” (capitalized, the God of Israel) or “gods” (other divine beings). We have to wait
for the word to be put into a sentence to know which meaning is the focus. We have
words like this in English. For example, the word “sheep” can be either singular or

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:10 PM
. By itself we cannot tell which option is correct. If we put “sheep” into the
sentence, “The sheep is lost,” we know only one sheep is meant since the verb “is”
requires its subject to be singular. Likewise, “the sheep are lost” informs us that more
than one sheep is in view.

Over two thousand occurrences of the word elohim in the Hebrew text of the Old
Testament point to the singular God of Israel. We know this because of the grammar of
the sentences in which the word occurs, as well as context. Job 38:4 obviously refers to
the God of Israel since the grammar there has the creator speaking in the first person
singular (“I laid the foundations of the earth”). At other times, God is referred to as haelohim, with the Hebrew definite article (the word for “the”) in front of elohim.

It was written this way to signal that the God of Israel was “THE God” (par excellence) among
all other gods. The grammar and context of any particular occurrence helps the reader
make the decision about what to do with elohim.
It shouldn’t be surprising that since God can be referred to as elohim and haelohim the Hebrew Old Testament attaches the phrase “the sons of” to both forms of
God’s name. At times the Hebrew text refers to the sons of God as beney elohim and at
other times as beney ha-elohim. There is no difference in meaning. In the same manner,
the Hebrew text occasionally reads beney elim—with the meaning “sons of God” (though
plural in shape, elim refers to the singular God in that phrase, just like elohim does).

One verse (see Psalm 82:6 below) uses the phrase beney elyon (“sons of the Most High”),
since elyon is yet another name for God.
The thought might have occurred to you that when the Hebrew writers referred to
the God of Israel as “THE God” (par excellence) or “Most High” (greater and more
exalted than all others) that this implies more than one god. If that question crept into
your mind, kudos to you! You’d be correct—and that brings us to the reason why so
many evangelical scholars and pastors want the “sons of God” to be human beings in
certain passages. They think having heavenly sons of God in certain passages puts
polytheism in the Bible.

This uneasiness is felt especially acutely in Psalm 82, since Psalm 82:1 and 82:6
identify the sons of God as plural elohim—gods. But that is the literal and most
straightforward understanding of the text. What opponents of the obvious meaning of the
text miss is that the presence of more than one god in the Bible does not mean polytheism
as we commonly use that word. If these last two sentences sound way out, stay with me.
Let’s take a look at Psalm 82 (note my insertion of Hebrew and grammatical terms and
the underlining)
A psalm of Asaph.
God (elohim) stands in the divine council (literally, council of El);
among the gods (elohim) He pronounces judgment.
How long will you (plural) judge unjustly,
showing favor to the wicked? Selah.
Judge the wretched and the orphan,
vindicate the lowly and the poor,
rescue the wretched and the needy;
save them from the hand of the wicked.
They neither know nor understand,
they go about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth totter.
I said, “you (plural) gods (elohim),
sons of the Most High (beney Elyon), all of you (plural);
but you (plural) shall die as men do,
fall like any prince.
Arise (the command is singular), O God (elohim),
judge (the command is singular) the earth,
for you (singular) shall inherit all the nations.
Despite the fact that it makes people uncomfortable, the text means what it says.

In Psalm 82:1, the first elohim must be singular, since the Hebrew grammar has the word
as the subject of a singular verb. The second elohim must be plural, since the preposition
in front of it (“in the midst of”) requires more than one. You can’t be “in the midst of”
one person. And according to Psalm 82:1, the singular God (elohim) of Israel presides
over an assembly or council of other gods (elohim).
Verse six makes it perfectly clear
that these other elohim are the sons of the God of Israel. In that verse God himself is
speaking (“I said”) to the other elohim of that divine council, and he addresses them with
the plural “you.” He says point-blank: “you are gods (elohim), all of you.” The fact that
he is speaking to a group (plural elohim) is made certain even in the English, since God
also calls them “sons of the Most High.” I made the observation above that the Hebrew
word for angels is mal’akim (literally, “messengers”), an entirely different term than
occurs for the sons of God. If one still insisted against the inspired textual evidence that
the two should be identified, you’d still need to explain why angels are called gods in
light of Psalm 82:6.

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:13 PM
Some who object to the obvious meaning of the text may assert that this psalm is
actually describing God the Father speaking to the other members of the Trinity. This
view results in heresy here, in some very obvious ways. First, not all the members of the
Trinity are “sons.”

The Holy Spirit is not the Son of God or a son of God. Second, if the
passage has the Trinity in mind, then God is charging them with corruption! Verses 2-5
are quite clear that God is displeased with these other elohim in his council and has
indicted them for their wicked rule. Third, this view would also have the Trinity
sentenced to death! They would die like mortals (“as men do”). This can’t refer to the death of Christ for three reasons: (a) the death sentence isn’t restricted to just one son of
God; (b) the death sentence is for personal guilt and corruption; (c) the Son (note the
capitalization) who is God’s own essence and uncreated, is superior to the other sons of
God (more on that in a moment). Fourth, it is evident from the last verse that the
judgment of the sons of God, these other elohim, has something to do with God’s
reclamation of the nations of the earth.

The implication is that the sons of God have been
ruling the earth and doing it wickedly, and so they must be removed for God’s rule to
come to full fruition. In other words, they are an impediment or a nuisance (or at best a
disappointment). Certainly not the way we’d want to (or can) look at the Trinity.

But what about the view that the elohim upon whom God has placed a death
sentence are human rulers? This, too, is incoherent. Ask yourself some questions of the
text. What is the scriptural basis for the idea that God presides over a council of humans
that governs the nations of the earth? Some commentators who reject the face-value
meaning of Psalm 82 like to argue that Israel’s council of seventy elders is in view here—
that God is judging Israel’s judges or elders for their corruption. This makes little sense,
since at no time in the Scriptures did Israel’s elders ever have jurisdiction over all the
nations of the earth. In fact, as we’ll see in the next chapter, the situation is exactly
opposite—Israel was separated from the nations to be God’s own possession and focus
of his rule.

Moreover, since when do the corrupt decisions of a group of humans make
the foundations of the earth totter (v. 5)? Lastly, if these elohim are humans, why are
they sentenced to die “like humans”? This is nonsensical, and is defeated by the
grammar and structure of the Hebrew text.
It would be akin to sentencing a child to
grow up, or a dog to bark, or a human being to breathe. The point of verse 6 is that, in
response to the corruption of the elohim, they will be stripped of their immortality at
God’s discretion and die like humans die. A clear contrast is set up in the text.
The real problem with the human view, though, is twofold. This view cannot be
reconciled with: (1) other references in the Hebrew Old Testament that refer to a divine
council and other elohim; (2) other passages in the Hebrew Bible speak of an act of God
to divide the nations of the earth among the sons of God as a punishment for their
rebellion—before there was a nation of Israel. Once you understand the texts we’ll
examine below, Psalm 82 becomes completely coherent—and frankly brings most of the
entirety of the Old Testament into proper focus.

For the remainder of this chapter we’ll
focus on the first issue: references to a heavenly council that make it clear that the council
of Psalm 82 is comprised of God and other supernatural beings. We’ll tackle council
functions and related concepts in the chapters that follow.

There are several other places in the Hebrew Bible that speak of plural elohim and
a heavenly council. Perhaps the most familiar passages where the sons of God show up
are the first two chapters of Job:

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:16 PM
Job 1:1ff.
There was a man in the land of Uz named Job. That man was blameless
and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.
Seven sons and three daughters were born to him;
his possessions were seven thousand sheep,
three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred sheasses, and a very large household. That man was wealthier than anyone in
the East.
It was the custom of his sons to hold feasts, each on his set day in
his own home. They would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with
When a round of feast days was over, Job would send word to them
to sanctify themselves, and, rising early in the morning, he would make
burnt offerings, one for each of them; for Job thought, “Perhaps my
children have sinned and blasphemed God in their thoughts.” This is what
Job always used to do.
And it came to pass, when the sons of God
presented themselves before the LORD, Satan came along with them.
LORD said to Satan, “Where have you been?” Satan answered the LORD, “I
have been roaming all over the earth.”
The LORD said to Satan, “Have you
noticed My servant Job? There is no one like him on earth, a blameless and
upright man who fears God and shuns evil!”
Job 2:1ff.
Once again the sons of God presented themselves before the LORD. Satan
came along with them to present himself before the LORD.
The LORD said
to Satan, “Where have you been?” Satan answered the LORD, “I have been
roaming all over the earth.”
The LORD said to Satan, “Have you noticed
My servant Job? There is no one like him on earth, a blameless and upright
man who fears God and shuns evil. He still keeps his integrity; so you have
incited Me against him to destroy him for no good reason.”
answered the LORD, “Skin for skin—all that a man has he will give up for
his life.
But lay a hand on his bones and his flesh, and he will surely
blaspheme You to Your face.”
So the LORD said to Satan, “See, he is in
your power; only spare his life.”
In both these passages the Hebrew phrase translated, “the sons of God” is beney
ha-elohim. Although I have the familiar “Satan” in this passage, the Hebrew word here
(satan[ ) is best translated “The Adversary” since it has the definite article prefixed to it
(hassatan[ ).

Hebrew does not prefix proper names with the article, and neither does
English (I am not “the Mike”). In the Intertestamental period and the New Testament
era, satan [ became a proper name for God’s arch enemy. The word as used here actually
refers to a being who exercises a prosecutorial function—one who accuses or indicts
another person. In the ancient Near East, to which the Old Testament culturally belongs,
this was a specific role within the divine council (see Zechariah 3:1-7 for perhaps the
classic passage on this function).
The picture here is that the divine council is meeting for business, and The
Adversary has a role in that meeting. The Hebrew text is ambiguous as to whether he is a
member of the council or one of the sons of God.
He may simply be an “officer” of the
council at its meetings.
One also encounters the sons of God (beney ha-elohim) in
Deuteronomy 32:8 (in the Dead Sea Scrolls material; see the next chapter for this
passage) and Genesis 6:1-4 (see Chapter 6). Before moving on, take note of how the
human view of the sons of God fails hopelessly here. There is simply no way that the
sons of God could be human beings in Job 1-2.

One encounters the sons of God in the slightly variant spelling beney elim in two
biblical passages. In Psalm 29:1, a verse that has suffered greatly at the hands of
translators, the other elohim are commanded to worship Yahweh:
Ascribe to the LORD, O sons of God (beney elim),
ascribe to the LORD glory and strength!

It is quite clear from this text that Yahweh is to be worshipped by other elohim,
not the other way around. The God of Israel is qualitatively superior. Psalm 89:5-7
(Hebrew, vv. 6-8) echoes the same thought, and specifically references the divine
Let the heavens praise your wonders, O LORD,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!
For who in the skies can equal the LORD,
Who can compare with the LORD among the sons of God (beney elim),
a God greatly dreaded in the council of the holy ones,
held in awe by all around Him?

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:18 PM
I naturally underlined the phrase “sons of God” and obvious references to the
divine council to draw your attention to their existence in the biblical text, but I also
underlined “in the skies” and “all around him.” The reason is to emphasize that these
sons of God are in heaven and around God’s throne. They are not a human council of
judges. Once again, the human view is completely inadequate.
Perhaps the most striking scene of the divine council is found in I Kings 22. In
that passage, the reader is privy to an actual council meeting concerning the evil king
Ahab. I reproduce the whole chapter here (NRSV) for context (note the underlined
For three years Aram and Israel continued without war.
But in the
third year King Jehoshaphat of Judah came down to the king of Israel.
The king of Israel said to his servants, “Do you know that Ramoth-gilead
belongs to us, yet we are doing nothing to take it out of the hand of the
king of Aram?”
He said to Jehoshaphat, “Will you go with me to battle at
Ramoth-gilead?” Jehoshaphat replied to the king of Israel, “I am as you
are; my people are your people, my horses are your horses.”
But Jehoshaphat also said to the king of Israel, “Inquire first for the
word of the LORD.”
Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets
together, about four hundred of them, and said to them, “Shall I go to battle
against Ramoth-gilead, or shall I refrain?” They said, “Go up; for the LORDwill give it into the hand of the king.”
But Jehoshaphat said, “Is there no
other prophet of the LORD here of whom we may inquire?”
The king of
Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “There is still one other by whom we may
inquire of the LORD, Micaiah son of Imlah; but I hate him, for he never
prophesies anything favorable about me, but only disaster.” Jehoshaphat
said, “Let the king not say such a thing.”
Then the king of Israel
summoned an officer and said, “Bring quickly Micaiah son of Imlah.”
Now the king of Israel and King Jehoshaphat of Judah were sitting on their
thrones, arrayed in their robes, at the threshing floor at the entrance of the
gate of Samaria; and all the prophets were prophesying before them.
Zedekiah son of Chenaanah made for himself horns of iron, and he said,
“Thus says the LORD: With these you shall gore the Arameans until they
are destroyed.”
All the prophets were prophesying the same and saying,
“Go up to Ramoth-gilead and triumph; the LORD will give it into the hand
of the king.”
The messenger who had gone to summon Micaiah said to him,
“Look, the words of the prophets with one accord are favorable to the king;
let your word be like the word of one of them, and speak favorably.”
Micaiah said, “As the LORD lives, whatever the LORD says to me, that I
will speak.”
When he had come to the king, the king said to him, “Micaiah, shall
we go to Ramoth-gilead to battle, or shall we refrain?” He answered him,
“Go up and triumph; the LORD will give it into the hand of the king.”
the king said to him, “How many times must I make you swear to tell me
nothing but the truth in the name of the LORD?”
Then Micaiah said, “I
saw all Israel scattered on the mountains, like sheep that have no shepherd;
and the LORD said, ‘These have no master; let each one go home in peace.’

The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “Did I not tell you that he would
not prophesy anything favorable about me, but only disaster?”
Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the
LORD sitting on his throne, with all the host of heaven standing beside him
to the right and to the left of him.
And the LORD said, ‘Who will entice
Ahab, so that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ Then one said one
thing, and another said another,
until a spirit came forward and stood
before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’
‘How?’ the LORD asked
him. He replied, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his
prophets.’ Then the LORD said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall
succeed; go out and do it.’
So you see, the LORD has put a lying spirit in
the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has decreed disaster for
Then Zedekiah son of Chenaanah came up to Micaiah, slapped him
on the cheek, and said, “Which way did the spirit of the LORD pass from
me to speak to you?”
Micaiah replied, “You will find out on that day
when you go in to hide in an inner chamber.”
The king of Israel then
ordered, “Take Micaiah, and return him to Amon the governor of the city
and to Joash the king’s son,
and say, ‘Thus says the king: Put this fellow in prison, and feed him on reduced rations of bread and water until I come
in peace.’ ”
Micaiah said, “If you return in peace, the LORD has not
spoken by me.” And he said, “Hear, you peoples, all of you!”

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:20 PM
Note from this remarkable vision of the true prophet of Yahweh that the
deliberative assembly is once again in the presence of God. There is no possibility that
this is a human council.

There are other references to the corrupt gods of the nations—and not idols—
outside immediate divine council contexts. They affirm that other gods were part of the
worldview of Israel in the Hebrew Bible. The first list below contains passages where the
word elohim or ha-elohim is in the Hebrew text where you read “gods.” The second list
has verses where the Hebrew word is elim.

The plural elohim / ha-elohim
Psalm 86:8 - Among the gods there is none like you, O Yahweh; neither [are there
any works] like your works.

Psalm 95:3 - For Yahweh is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalm 96:4 - For Yahweh is great, and deserving of exceedingly great praise: he is
to be feared above all gods.

Psalm 97:7 - All who served images were put to shame; those who boasted in
mere idols; even all the gods bow down before him [Yahweh, see v. 5 preceding]

Psalm 97:9 - For you, O Yahweh, are Most High above all the earth: you are
exalted far above all gods.
Psalm 135:5 - For I know that Yahweh is great, and that our lord is above all
Psalm 136:2 - O give thanks to the God of gods: for his mercy endures for ever.

Psalm 138:1 - I will praise you with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing
praise to you.
The plural elim

Exodus 15:11 – Who is like you, O Yahweh, among the gods? Who is like you,
majestic in holiness, awesome in splendor, doing wonders?
Psalm 58:1 - Do you indeed decree what is right, O gods? Do you judge people
10 It is common for those who resist the face-value meaning of the text of Psalm
82:1, 6 to argue at this point that such references to other gods are actually references to
idols, or that they are figurative expressions—that Israelites didn’t really believe such
beings exist. The first objection is discussed in detail in the next chapter. For now take
another look at Psalm 97:7 in the above list. It clearly distinguishes the gods from idols.

The psalmist mocks the people who bow down to idols, and adds that even the gods who
the idols represent bow down to Yahweh! The second objection is best addressed here.
Those who want to argue that these references to other gods cannot be taken as
reflecting what Israelites really believed don’t realize how that objection does injustice to
both the biblical text and the God of Israel. What I mean here is that, if the above verses
are not conveying factual information relative to biblical theology, then God’s superiority
is a mockery. For example, if Moses is comparing Yahweh to beings that don’t exist,
how is Yahweh glorified. To have Moses “really” saying “Who is like you, O Yahweh,
among the beings that aren’t real” is to judge God’s greatness by nothing. We’re greater
than something that doesn’t exist! So is a microbe. This view unintentionally brings God
down quite a few notches, to say nothing of the deception involved on Moses’ part—and
even God’s since he inspired the words.

Saying “among the beings that we all know
don’t exist there is none like Yahweh” is tantamount to comparing Yahweh with Mickey
Mouse, Spiderman, or some fictional literary figure. This reduces praise to a snicker. It
also makes the writer somewhat mentally unbalanced. He sings Yahweh’s praise before
beings he really believes aren’t there? He commands the same imaginary beings to
worship Yahweh (Psa. 29:1)? Worse yet, Yahweh presides over a council of beings that
don’t exist? Why would the Holy Spirit inspire such nonsense?

More substantive is the fact that those who don’t want to take the text for what it
says in such verses fear that they might be affirming polytheism as part of the belief
system of the biblical writers. This is a concern only in that we use the word
“monotheism” in a particular way that means “the belief that no other gods exist,” as
opposed to “the belief that there is one unique God.”
Polytheistic religions typically
have a group of gods who fight and scheme against one another for power, and
sometimes leadership of the lead god in charge can (and does) change in such religions.
These systems also universally assume that the gods can be identified with parts of the
creation, and that at least subset of the pantheon is basically equal in power and ability
(or they have powers and abilities that offset the powers and abilities of the other “top
tier” gods). Other terms relevant to this question are also flawed, such as henotheism (the
belief in one superior god among other gods) and monolatry (the belief that you should
worship only one god though others exist). These terms are deficient in that they do not
sufficiently describe what the biblical writers believed.

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:20 PM
Excuse me....are you just doing a copy and paste of another website here on ATS....

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 12:21 PM
reply to post by Destinyone

Yeah im posting the whole article by michael s meyer. I read the terms and conditions and it said all i must do i give credit and post the link where it comes from. Or am i forgetting something?

posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 11:27 PM
reply to post by vaelamin

Ezekiel 38 mentions how Gog, the chief prince of Meshec and Tubal, the Son of Japhet, from the Isle's of the gentiles and lands of the north, aka Europe,(Genesis 10:2). Come against the Land of the real ISRAEL, in the latter days. Gog cannot be Iran for obvious reasons being that it is the land of Persia also mentioned in Ezekiel 38 as a separate entity. Ezekiel 38:10 mentions How the thought of "stealing" the real Israel came to the prince of Meshec and Tubal, GOG. That's why there is so much conflict in the middle east now. That's why 9/11 was an inside job. That's why they want to go to war with Iran and like talking about it everyday on the news.

GOG,MAGOG,MESHEC AND TUBAL are not descendents of Shem, read Genesis 10:2 it's there in plain english. They are descendants of Japheth, brother to Shem. They are the one's who go against the Land of Israel, by force and occupation mentioned in Ezekiel 38 in the latter days AKA NOW. They are the one's who thought the evil thought mentioned in Ezekiel38:10. That thought was to PLAGIARISE The Word of YAHUWAH and His Prophecy. YHWH even mentions how it brings His "fury upon His face", when they do it. We are in the latter days as the fake "UN" created isreal is 100% undeniable proof. The same entity that is behind 9/11 is also behind the creation of the UN's fake 'isreal'.

Also when YAHUWAH/YAHUSHUA addresses the 7 churches of Asia in the Book of Revelation, which are where the 144,000 of the lost tribe of Israel will be chosen from, they would have to be believers in order for Him to address them. The jewish people of the fake UN created 'isreal' don't believe in the one people wrongfully call 'jesus', so where does that make any sense? Gog and Magog are the sole owners of the fake UN created 'isreal'. Satanic forces under the guidance of satan deceived the world into believing who 'isreal' really is supposed to be, but it is YAHUWAH'S will because the people who were to represent Him, whom He blessed as the Sons of Shem, disobeyed Him and were sinning TREMENDOUSLY. We all are paying for sin no matter how close you are to your Creator.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Question for the people who believe in The Old Testament and not the New like the ones who study JUDAISM: WHICH IMMANUEL ARE YOU WAITING FOR? *BORN FROM A VIRGIN I MIGHT ADD*

Hope You don't fall for satan's version of immanuel, because the real Immanuel already came.



posted on Apr, 5 2012 @ 07:58 AM
Is ther any way you could download the whole book and copy and paste the whole thing? I'm interested, but not 15.99 interested...

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