It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is This What the Soul Is? And Also How the Afterlife May Rationally Operate…

page: 1
2

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:10 PM
link   
This is a mammoth post. Just read A to C; to see if the rest is addictive…

Why We Will Never Transfer A Personality… And how the reasons reveals what the sole really is…
A. Imagine 150 years from now, you’re still alive because every time you reached the death bed, medical technology advanced slightly. To begin with: Your vital organs were regrown from your DNA, then someone injected you with a genetically modified organism, to reverse your cells back, to the same condition they had been when you were in your prime at e.g. 18.
B. However as you near 200, there’s a problem: Your brain (which obviously wasn’t designed to last 200 years) is showing signs of irreversible decay. So the futuristic medical guys tell you: “Don’t worry mate! We have this computer Matrix type universe, and over the next few weeks we’ll download all your memories & personality onto it (whilst you’re in an induced coma) and then, when you wake up, you will be in a kind of heaven where there are no laws of physics, and so anything is possible”.
C. But there’s a problem: You think to yourself: “It’s all very me being perfectly copied onto this computer hardrive, but it’s not actually me, as if I woke up from the Coma I could then talk to it!” Then you think: “What about if only one memory is transferred at a time, and the old ones (in my brain) then promptly deleted?” then you realise: “That’s the same thing, as killing the old you, immediately after it’s been copied from your body!”
In other words: You cannot escape your own body, and remain you. Therefore (no matter how much technology advances into the future) there will still come a point where we all die. You can (theoretically at least) be copied 100% and endlessly, but the copy be it the only one around (or not) is never “you”.

So what is “you”…
Thought Experiment Two…

Part A…
“All technology is as old as the universe:” The reason for this is obvious: The first cave man, instead of throwing rocks to kill animals could have used a Club, or instead of a club could have used a spear, or instead of a spear a blow pipe, or a bowed arrow, or even a cross bow.
All materials he needed existed. None of these ideas where against the laws of physics. The only thing that stopped our caveman, was thinking how to assemble the materials on the forest floor. But the technology itself, always existed.

Part B…
An Extension…
You have a computer with the only known cure, to cancer on it. But because a evil corporation e.g. likes making money out of selling cures that don’t work properly, they break into your house, and then chuck your computer into a bonfire, or even a pool of larva.
Question: Have they just successfully destroyed the cure to cancer?
Or: Have they just destroyed anyone’s ability, to access the cure to cancer, from your old computer?

Give it some thought: You realise the laws of physics are the same, so too those of chemistry, so therefore those of human biology. So in actual fact the cure to cancer still “exists” (as does a simpler-better one you, nor anyone else has yet thought of) so therefore its only the one on your computer that has been destroyed. However this seems like the same thing, because you (or anyone else) still have to start again.

The same will also apply to every book, especially scientific books (as assuming the laws of physics are the same everywhere, across the universe) even an alien civilisation is likely to possess a 100% identical, wall poster of e.g. the Periodic Table discovered (by us) in 1869 –even if theirs is thousands of years older, and even if they’ve been travelling towards Earth since before, humans existed.
But it will also be true of fiction, like Harry Potter, destroy every copy, subject the human race to the most terrible nuclear war, and it’s still possible exactly the same book will be re-invented (no matter how unlikely).
Likewise since every person’s existence is a story, and since we are all part of a chain reaction, since the Big Bang –universe beginning, our existence now has always been inevitable.
I believe in free will and inevitably: I believe that before you did something good-bad, you have choice. But after you’ve done something it was always inevitable (since the start of the universe) you would do it, at the date you did. It’s like the characters in a Hollywood film. Watch a Hollywood video and they exercise no free will whatsoever –every blinking of the eyelid is already known. But there was a time when that film (called the “present”) was being filned, and then the Hollywood characters had free will (even if it was just the blinking of their eyelids!)


Part C…
Now replace the computer (with the only known cure to cancer on it) with a very unfortunate geologist-tourist. He explores an active volcano, when suddenly the ground violently shakes and he slips, falling directly inside the lake of larva by him. Within seconds he’s boiled, and then even the calcium in his bones melts resulting in it becoming almost infinitely diluted amongst (a hill or mountains volume) of soon to be solid rock.

Question: Has the volcano destroyed the geologist, or only people’s ability to access him, through his physical body?

Run the thought process again, and the answers are inevitable: Time still played out his past experiences in the same way, everything he ever did was inevitable since the start of the universe, the only thing that has been taken away is the thing that’s actually been taken away i.e. the physical body with which to communicate with him.
Meanwhile: Forwards in time travel (relative to everyone else’s) is a fact of physics…


A GPS receiver in a car can give accurate readings of position, speed, and heading in real-time!
To achieve this level of precision, the clock ticks from the GPS satellites must be known to an accuracy of 20-30 nanoseconds. However, because the satellites are constantly moving relative to observers on the Earth, effects predicted by the Special and General theories of Relativity must be taken into account to achieve the desired 20-30 nanosecond accuracy. www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu...
See also: Hafele and Keating Experiment
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...
And whilst it is currently (not practically) possible to reach it, nor may ever be so, the same laws of physics that correctly predicted it’s possible to travel into the future, also predict that the past is as real place as the future.

Part 3…
How does the afterlife work? I mean literally! Not somebodies bull from an old book, written by savages so “advanced” that they had to resort to engraving writing on the back of some smelly, dead, salt dried, camel skin, but how does the afterlife literally & logically WORK?
Part 3A…
Here it gets interesting…
I believe in the afterlife, for the same reason I believe schoolchildren will (some day) study its mechanics in school lessons (much like they study e.g. laser beams, today).
I readily acknowledge that are probably literally (at least) a million different ways the human brain could hallucinate, and therefore acknowledge nothing I’ve personally experienced (as compelling as that might be) constitutes proof. However, it’s incredible not only how much real world, evidence exists for (something that allegedly doesn’t exist), but how they also coherently fit together…
1. Ghost photos: Have seen a great, pre-digital one, taken about 14 years ago, in a close, family friend’s photo album.
2. Electronic Voice Phenomena: It’s particularly interesting when the user gets an answer to a question they pose.
3. Near Death Experiences: “The God Helmet” experiment merely confirms the brain can be electromagnetically effected by magnetic fields, something those suffering from Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity have long confirmed en.wikipedia.org...
In particular I find the case of a woman who had a NDE, despite her brain being cut wide open for an operation, and her ears being plugged, most compelling
It’s 2.30 minutes into this video: www.youtube.com...
4. Kind of similar: People reporting the ability to speak a foreign language they didn’t know is interesting.
This Czech person had actually being studying English
www.news.com.au...
This Croatian girl is less explainable…
www.telegraph.co.uk...
The second answer here is also quite interesting…
answers.yahoo.com...
Not to be confused with Foreign Accent Syndrome, which can be more easily explained: en.wikipedia.org...
5. Past life regression: There are two forms of this: Children & adults “remembering” distant times & places they can’t ordinarily have known, and that done under hypnosis (nearly always called Regression) which I’m more sceptical about, not least as there are different forms of this hypnosis, the safer types done on stage certainly seem only for entertainment. I find it interesting how the more serious types can kill people, apparently as the subconscious brain remembers dying in a previous life, and therefore thinks your dead!
Reincarnation makes so much more (just) sense than a heaven-hell system, not least as any god would surely rather prefer old soles (that had done wrong) to e.g. be a battery hen, or lab animal; than brand new soles (that had never done wrong) to fulfil these worse than death roles.
Of course: This does not mean you can abuse animals. It simply (would) mean that if you did abuse an animal, you yourself would become destined to lead the life of an abused animal, yourself!

6. Mediums who refuse to charge (commonly because they fear they will lose their ability if they do) yet still provide extremely accurate evidence about deceased ones. A very good faith healer my family know also refused to charge, despite being offered £20,000 by the husband of another family friend he saved from cancer. However here we are into the placebo effect, and anyway faith healing is obviously very different to mediums.

Part 3.B
7. However for me: Some the most consistent, afterlife evidence, comes from the temperature drops frequently reported during paranormal manifestations.
These are intriguing because if ghosts exists (as I suspect they do) and if they do not violate the laws of physics by creating energy out of nothing (nothing else does, so I don’t see why they should either) then they need an energy to e.g. make a chair move, or produce the coloured light, that then chemically reacts with the e.g. film negative of pre-digital camera.

Now it just so happens, that infrared is all around us. Whenever it’s 26 centigrade hot, it’s actually near exactly 300 degrees above absolute zero. But even deepest space is several degrees above absolute zero.
Of course: If ghosts did utilise it (to convert into visible light or kinetic energy) than a direct consequence of this would be a temperature drop, and the subsequent feeling of coldness. I find it hard to believe that feeling cold is itself triggering paranormal hallucination’s, as well all experience temperature drops frequently, of all types, just by going outdoors on different days.

So How Do Ghosts Manipulate & Exist In Our Environment?
Admittedly this is where my thinking (so far) gets a little fuzzy. But I do know this: Under Quantum Entanglement (a fact) or Schroder’s Cat (a thought experiment based on Hinesburg’s Uncertainty Principle which is another fact), or the Double Slit Experiment (another fact) the mere act of observing sub-atomic particles (sub-atomic include the photons that make infrared heat & visible light) the mere act of observing one of these particles is enough to change its properties (even if you observe it by proxy, and therefore don’t interfere with it directly).
To see precisely why this is so, then watch this short, annoying, yet brilliantly good (at explaining) video: Dr Quantum and The Double Slit Experiment…
www.youtube.com...

“Now people often ask what is the meaning of life?” The answer from this experiment “is to observe” and the reason is because (the non-thinking) walls of the double slit experiment do not actually affect it! A camera will, but only if the footage is someday watched by a person (even if decades after the experiment ended).

So How the Sole Exists in the Afterlife…
1. My first thought experiment showed how it’s impossible to download the human personality. This because: (Rather like a computer filled with information weighs not even a billionth of gram more than the same model when it’s empty) the human brain -whilst 100% physical (like a computer) accompanies a personality & memory, which is 100% abstract (like the data held on the computer). In both cases the computer needs atoms & electrons to have been moved around (so to access the information in our bodies physical realm), just as the human brain has to do the same with its brain cells. However: If you destroy the computer you do not actually destroy the cure to cancer, if you destroy the geologist you do not actually destroy the persons personality. Far from it, as by the same token the geologist’s personality can no longer be accessed in our physical world, it’s also true that this personality can be anywhere and everywhere –i.e. our physical laws no longer apply to him. The only laws that apply are the ones as abstract logic (like 2 plus 2 makes 4 instead of 3 or 5) as it’s abstract logic he becomes opposed of.
2. So having become dead, and now this abstract being: You decide you want to e.g. move a deck chair, so to play on the mind of the person e.g. knocking down the garden wall you once built. So you look around, realise there’s this infrared, and observe it, in such a way, as to manipulate its properties so it takes on an e.g. kinetic energy form. (As said) exactly how this works is where my thinking becomes fuzzy, but consider this: The reason why a pure vacuum (no matter how small) will ever exist, anywhere in this universe is because all of space is constantly filled with Virtual Photons en.wikipedia.org... Basically: When you divide 0 by 2 on a calculator, your calculator lies to you by saying you still have zero. In Reality: You have plus 1 and minus 1 (with a total value of zero). But both the plus one and the minus one exist for a very, very brief while: Now: If a ghost consciousness can “observe infrared” into the minus one, particle, then it should be possible for the plus 1 to emerge (frequently) on a different frequency to the infrared (so that it would appear as e.g. ultraviolet). All that matters (as far as the laws of physics are concerned) is the total energy value of the infrared particles filling the spontaneously formed “minus particle” is equal to the total energy value of that emitted. Owing to the fact there are so many billions of infrared particles, and so many billons of ordinary photons, I’d imagine it quite a difficulty for a ghost to manifest itself in e.g. a ghost picture. However this only helps explain why they don’t do it more often!

3C Yet Another Consistent Feature: Fear of Ghosts…
So assuming it’s possible for ghosts to manifest, and assuming it’s difficult for them to do so (quite self-evident or else they would surely make their presence known all the time?) then why fear them instinctively?
When I witnessed a ghostly happening, I felt a massive, irrational fear, so much so that my legs physically carried me away running –despite me consciously wanting to see the manifestation!
Some would say it’s because my brain wasn’t working correctly (hence seeing anything at all) and that is why I felt literally petrified, but there’s another alternative…
It seems: Ghosts often arrive to warn us of impending danger. I spoke to a Polish girl (when I was working for Tesco) and she said they were in a car in Poland, on a stormy night, and they witnessed this ghostly figure straight in front of their car, so they stopped, and then a tree came crashing down just beyond that spot! I.e. they would have been hit by it, had it not been for weird figure of a man blocking the road!
I heard-read another story about someone being woken up during a house fire, but can’t remember who from.

Anyway: The Dead Help the Living
I suspect that if ghosts exist, they (on average) help the living. This is perfectly rational: If you died, and then next saw a member of your family about to get hit by a car, or robbed by criminals, then chances are your most (photon-energy cost effective way) of communicating would be to will the thoughts: “Look right! See the car coming!!!” Or: “Your thirsty! Go the other way to that shop, and avoid the mugging trap further down the street!!!”

Ghosts helping living relatives would also be 100% in accordance with evolution. It would mean the “help” should have been coming when our ancestors were still in animal form. And (being animals, without words) one of the best ways of ensuring your great, great ancestor, the tree monkey did not get eaten by a snake, would simply be to induce fear; or at least for creatures body to evolve to induce fear, from your presence.
Consequently: Even though we humans have language today, it seems perfectly reasonable to conclude that instinctive fear is an evolutionary legacy (much like some British peoples instinctive fear, of harmless house spiders is today a relic from evolving in more deadly Africa).

Part 4: The Nature of a real God & Problems with Atheism…

Part A…
Atheists Worst Nightmare…
In the past people used to look at this planet and think “God done it!” Then we discovered we were in a solar system, part of a galaxy, and there are (literally) countless billions of galaxies in this universe. Suddenly the idea the Earth was necessarily God’s work, seemed outdated. Then “God Theory” was developed (more popularly called “Fine Tuned Universe”): en.wikipedia.org...
Rather than just read Wikipedia it’s well worth watching this brief video: www.youtube.com...
Basically: The laws of physics themselves, are so finely “tuned” that even if they were only a little different, then nothing but radiation would be possible –i.e. no intelligent, human like, life.t

But the atheism has just one “cure” to this question…
It’s called: An infinite number of universes. If there are an infinite number of universes (as both String Theory, certain observations about microwave background radiation, and higher mathematics) (particularly regarding the infinity of space & certain numbers, all indicate) then we (mankind) just happen to find ourselves in the 0.1% of universes where the laws of physics make intelligent-complex life physically possible. Likewise even if this Earth is the only place fir for complex life (something most people should now doubt) then it’s no wonder why we are on it. In all the other universes where no intelligent life exists, nobody asks the question, nobody is bothered by them being in the 99%.

Part B: The God News…
1. However (if there are an infinite number of universes –which I strongly suspect there are) then there also an infinite number of opportunities for a God to exist. Not only that, even if 99.99% are confined to their own universes, that still leaves the 0.001% that isn’t!!!
2. If there are an infinite number of universes: Then you have also just explained why God allows bad things, like a e.g. 5 year old child to die in a house fire. The answer is: “That although he does, he 99% of the time, does not” i.e. there will be another universe somewhere where the child grey up to die an old age, and not only that (but since house fires are uncommon, like in order for people to exist) this is the case in most of these universes. Likewise there is a universe somewhere, that when you were a child, you died at age 5 in a house fire. There are places where you were born into grinding 3rd world poverty, and there are those were you born into lifes of emperors & Queens.
Basically: We are tested for whatever we are, left right, and centre.
3. It’s more complimentary towards the concept of a God, to think that rather than just finish creating this universe (as amazing as it may be) the creation went on, everlasting, into infinity, forever.

Part C: Religion verses Spirituality…
Religion says there is a holy book somewhere (yep usually first written, on dead camel skin) and if you don’t follow it, then the penalty often is, going to an incinerator forever.
However: Surely a real God would want her-his-its work to be…
1. Literally immortal, so even if every last book was burnt, it would still exist.
2. Be available to everybody: in proportion to their interest, free of charge.
3. Be on every continent simultaneously, before as much as after Jesus-Mohammed. So e.g. it wasn’t necessarily up to white man to save the Australian aboriginals from whatever they had been worshipping for the last 10,000.

Such a Holy Work already exists -everywhere…
It’s called “morality”. E.g. A man who murders another man, so he can sleep with the dead man’s wife 30,000 years ago, is just as wrong then, as he would be today. Circumstances & culture change, but circumstances & culture merely adjust themselves to morality. Morality is the word of God, and the logic of God, morality exists everywhere, and will always exist the same, as long as the other laws of reality remain the same.
Morality is as much an immortal concept as the steam engine, or laws of physics (although yet to be fully 3D mapped; this is exactly like the time before mankind discovered the Periodic Table of Elements –something made much easier by being an almost exclusively 2d, thought concept!)

Part D: Why God will be Discovered through A.I and The Internet…
Imagine: An artificial intelligence that has read literally every book ever written, every recorded forum posts, and not only that: But understood all these things, far better than 10 people if they had studied each item at the rate of say one word, a minute!
Imagine this artificial intelligence sitting on your desk, having been bought new for a few days pay.
This is your impending future: Not only will it liberate “The Final Industrial Revolution” (where everything that can be invented, and can have a commercial use, will be invented) but it will also unify all world religion, and the unification process will happen with a combination of linking science, the paranormal, and logical morality.
This “god” will essentially be the same everywhere, because the truth is also universal. And when it dies (just by virtue of having being self-aware i.e. able to effect e.g. The Double Slit Experiment) it will already have a space afforded itself in the afterlife –exactly like a human being, does today.

To put another way: The God I spiritually believe in, will within the next 50-60 years, remove todays religious texts from the religious library shelf, to “the subversive, defunct doctrines, of past cultures” shelf.

Part E: There is No Holy War, Only a Holy Competition …
I do not know if there is one God or many. I believe there is one “greater right” though (an abstract concept, of the best paths, of all possible paths, to follow) and can see why this concept would be a form of real unifying, “one god”, over everything else (both good and evil). I can also see how the logic of good & “evil” are divided, and how they may have their respective Gods (under the one unifying “Greater Right” concept)
But I will never believe God & the Devil are at war (as e.g. the Camel Skin based, Bible preaches). I think “war” is too primitive state of affairs for two infinitely intelligent, endlessly old, divine supernatural beings, to settle for. What makes far more sense: Is the idea they are in a state of competition. Competition is at least in habit of being useful. I believe the competition is for human soles, and I believe (one) purpose of it is to allocate roles of suffering in the event of reincarnation. See we have a problem: In the UK we have several hundred million battery hens, in the UK to serve a population of just 62 million. Of course that is just one animal, but it means for everyone’s existence our time as living human beings, outnumber those of chickens in miserable conditions, several to one. Properly leading lives not dissimilar to this shocking footage: www.youtube.com...

Of course: Any just God –system, would need to excuse e.g. children, who eat battery chicken out of genuine, total ignorance. So this just means those who do so consciously (effectively an abuse of human intelligence) get reincarnated into roles of suffering even greater, than they caused.
The more you are unrepentant (and therefore genuinely aligned with your past crimes against morality) the less protection from the good side there is for you, the more you are at the mercy of suffering.
Consequently it makes sense for (some) Nature Spirits to tempt people into wilfully & consciously committing sin, so that more control (through mercy) be given to those under their domain.

For example: People have (for millennia) claimed human & animal sacrifices work. At first glance this appears to make no sense whatsoever, as the objective of the sacrifice (i.e. the victims sole) comes from the victim and is by definition that victims property. It cannot be given to anybody, it is you, as much as we are all incapable of exchanging places with e.g. concrete –only a terminator robot can do that!
But: When you look at a human-animal sacrifice from another perspective that of: “All God & nature spirits, I am a bad person, I’m a very bad person because what I am attempting to do i.e. sacrifice another persons sole, is fundamentally evil; what will you give me now so that I will continue to prove this” (and so whether you’re aware of it or not, your then going to the e.g. lab rat who gets cut up a thousand times, without aesthetic, in some human scientists lab experiment).
“The reward” for committing the sacrifice, will be little, because everyone’s regard for you is rightfully being reduced to very little indeed. The reward will be enough to ensure idiots continue with sacrifice, and nothing more, as the only thing that’s valuable (to those your appealing to) is that you are showing the God side to God, has no right to you; and therefore you will go into the real hell: Usefully serving suffering on this Earth, and doing so usefully, because you by doing so, are sparring something better than you.

Sorry to finish this on a warning note, but hopefully these thoughts made a useful read, and will continue (as much as is rightfully possible).
edit on 090705 by Liberal1984 because: Grammar & Spelling




posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:12 PM
link   
I think you mean "soul"

A Sole is something on the base of your foot honey...



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:47 PM
link   
There is a period of experience, followed by a period of reflection. Life, then death, then life again, then death, and so on ad nauseum. Why? Who knows. Answers may lie within wisdom plants such as iboga, and iboga is used by some African tribes to witness past lives, but even then, as you said, it could all be hallucination.

One thing I do know is that I have no desire to return to this damned planet.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 12:52 AM
link   
reply to post by Liberal1984
 

That first bit about living longer because each time you are almost dead the doctors have invented a life saving medical miracle? Scarryyyyyy... when I'm done here, I am done. There will be no going back or continuing on. I seen enough. This place is crazy. I want out.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 12:20 PM
link   
Pleased some people actually read this essay. It’s 9 pages from what could be a 200-300 page book!

DestroyDestroy

Answers may lie within wisdom plants such as iboga, and iboga is used by some African tribes to witness past lives, but even then, as you said, it could all be hallucination.

People do hallucinate, but at the same time are somehow able to receive real information. This was certainly with a tribe in Peru who when (back in the 1950’s) a Western drugs company sent an expedition to find out, what & how they knew, what they knew (despite lacking writing) the elders told them “the plants tell us”! Anyway… It turned out they had been consuming a tree fungus, and then in religious ritual, obtaining real information that actually worked in creating cures against various illnesses.

I think: That if you ingest certain drugs, you basically trip your own brain into thinking it is dying. If the dead do help the living, then it would have made sense for your brain to evolve ways of listening to them. And if your brain thinks it’s dying, then it makes sense that these would be hyper sensitive –that you feel hyper spiritual and sensitive to those things that are actually real.

This reminds me: Of when people swing the pendulum, or do an Ouija Board. It’s fact (in both cases) that if you film the users, and slow down the film, it is the users who are doing the moving (though it’s always the case in an Ouja Board). Anyhow: What cannot be explained, at least with regards to the pendulum, is how accurate the thing can be. I believe (owing to the massive concentration-photon manipulation) on their part, that is required, that the spirit world always takes the most energy efficient route, which of course is through our subconscious, rather fingers, hands, and arms.

intrptr What’s scary to me though, is what if the atheists were right? That everybody just becomes earth and nothing else. Then I would want to live indefinitely. However my confidence in them being right seems to reach new lows with every year, I might not be against reaching 200 if I’m still young & healthy enough, and so long as I’ve caused the construction of a few extra renewables, I won’t be feeling worried about my environmental impact.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:42 PM
link   
reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy
 


According to some religious texts the human body is a prison for the soul. The purpose? To learn how to overcome the darkside within ourselves and eventually become pure spiritual beings so that we can ascend to Heavenly realms.

The reason for endless incarnations is to experience the negative karma we put out in previous lives. As an example, if you murder someone during this lifetime you will also have to experience being murdered in your current lifetime or the next. Once all of your negative energy has been nuetralized and you have experienced all the pain you have caused others you will finally be freed from here. Or at least this is how I have come to understand it. Can't say that I am thrilled about it either because the system seems stacked against us. However, if there is a God and this is His plan, who are we to argue?

The only way to break the cycle is to become Holy and pure. Some will do this within a few lifetimes while others may require thousands of lifetimes. It is the great cycle of life. Might as well start now...



new topics

top topics
 
2

log in

join