Not only are we allowed to burn it, we can't even display it!

www.usflag.org...
Read the US flag code, there are actually certain times you must burn the flag. There are actually other more serious violations of the use of our national symbol that go unnoticed.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

If u dont like the country and wanna be a flag burner fine. Though getting so riled up that you would actually take a bat to the guy is even worse.

I dont care so long as I can burn my bible...

Seriously though once you start restricting one form of expression its only a matter of time before there is a drive to restrict others. I would never burn my flag and I think any American who does is misguided and is letting passion get in the way of reason however I will fight to allow ther feedom of expression.

Originally posted by Weller
Flag burning is a disgrace in my book.

There should not be any amendments banning it.

That said, the men are on private property and have to adhere to any rules the stadium imposes however unfair they may seem.

Is it really private property? I thought that most professional sports arenas in the U.S. (whether for the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, or some other league, or colleges) were publically owned arenas, since tax money was spent on them...

Originally posted by MacKiller
Don't like the county? Move!

Originally posted by anjeeeee
Dont like free speech? Move.

Either way, if you hate the U.S., there are 191 other countries to choose from...

I would never burn a US or Australian flag. Even if it is tattered it adds character, For some reason I love the look of a weathered flag, don't ask me why, it may symbolise hardship of the country or something.

Some loser in Australia was actually selling 'Flag Burning Kits' last year I think, he is a complete a-hole. He claimed it was freedom of speech but I class flag burning as treason.

[edit on 27-9-2004 by Ezekial]

Originally posted by anjeeeee
Looks like the nationalists took over here.

Why, exactly, do you guys think it's such a bad thing when an American flag is burned?

I see it as an expression of beliefs and ideas.

Dont like free speech? Move.

Nationalists? What does that mean, huh?
Have you the first clue what "freedom of speech" might mean? Do you talk with your mouth, or with the American flag and a Zippo? Be careful when you use "non-verbal" speech, as I might interpret your speech as, "Hey, Somebody please destroy my knees with a practice bat! I need to feel pain for the rest of my life for desecrating the symbol of your great nation!"
The flag does not stand for whatever particular pet-peeve you have with America, it stands for the several states, unified as a republic for our common good. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're a communist, a fascist, I Pinko, a Green, an anti-this or an anti-that. Seriosuly, if you have so much hate for the nation, why don't you move along and find a nation that is better suited to your likes? Oh, I already know the answer to that; it's because you want your cake and eat it, too. Some think they can destroy this nation and yet the nation still magically protects their liberties.

As far as "nationalistic", pal, that isn't a bad word. You don't like it? Tough. There's a bit of freedom of SPEECH for you, and I didn't have to burn anything to lay it our on the line for you. Nor did I have to use vulgarity.

I don't see what you really stand to gain defending the flag Tom. Makes no sense to me.

I understand that YOU think that the American flag stands for "50 states..." etc, but the funny thing about symbols is that it's almost completely subjective. Even if it does stand for one thing alone, burning a flag could not come close to destroying, denting, or even tarnishing the idea of freedom and America.

So again, what's the point?

If you ask me it was only a matter of free speech when the first person did it, back when it was somthing no one's ever really done before. Now it's become more of a ceremony required at all leftist rallies. The actual burning of the flag was just the words, not the message, those words have since become cliche

www.tampasportsauthority.com...

I hate to interrupt a good flag burning discussion by addressing the topic, but I looked up the rules of that stadium and see nothing that would back up their actions against these guys.

Another thought...

I don't care if anyone burns the flag or not. They don't have to move or feel they'll get beaten up, at least not by me. What bothers me about "the flag" is that every one I've found for sale over the past few years has been made in China. Why aren't they made here? Or are they, but just too costly for most stores to carry? I think it stinks that Americans aren't even employed making American flags.

[edit on 1-10-2004 by torque]

American Made flags aren't cheap. But I'd rather spend a little more for our products than spend less for cheap, printed imported flags!

2 Ply Polyester American Flags (Strongest)
Size Description Part Price
2.5x4' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars & a 3" pole hem that slides over house mounted Pole 2431000IIPH $40.92
3x5' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header and brass grommets 35311000IIHG $43.89
4x6' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header and brass grommets 46311000IIHG $60.30
5x8' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header and brass grommets 58311000IIHG $93.60
5x9.5' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header and brass grommets 59311000IIHG $112.53
6x10' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header and brass grommets 60311000IIHG $142.71
8x12' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 82321000IIRP $203.58
10x15' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 10321000IIRP $312.02
10x19' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 19321000IIRP $357.03
12x18' Polyester sewn American made flag w/embroidered stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 18321000IIRP $414.32
15x25' Polyester sewn American made flag w/applique stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 15321000IIRP $822.49
20x30' Polyester sewn American made flag w/applique stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 30321000IIRP $1238.85
20x38' Polyester sewn American made flag w/applique stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 38321000IIRP $1395.37
30x50' Polyester sewn American made flag w/applique stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 50321000IIRP $2822.46
30x60' Polyester sewn American made flag w/applique stars, Canvas Header with reinforcing rope and metal thimbles. 36321000IIRP $3173.16

Here's a link to a site that manufactures flags here in America!

When disposing of a flag it is to be burned but, the laws state that you must first cut the Uunion (blue part) from the stripes. So you are not buring a flag but two pieces of material.

Originally posted by JediMaster
When disposing of a flag it is to be burned but, the laws state that you must first cut the Uunion (blue part) from the stripes. So you are not buring a flag but two pieces of material.

When I was growing up, I was taught to cut the canton from the field, then separate the stripes by cutting them. Then place them in a container to be burned so the ashes won't be 'contaminated'. After the remains have been burned, you gather up the ashes for burial.

"Before a flag can be burned, it must first be cut into separate pieces," said Litteral. "The field of blue must first be cut from the stripes. Then, the stripes must be cut into strips."

Entire article here!

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 18
Part I. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 33 - EMBLEMS, INSIGNIA, AND NAMES
THIS TITLE WAS ENACTED BY ACT JUNE 25, 1948, CH. 645, SEC. 1, 62 STAT. 683

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

� 700. Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties
(a)(1) Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(2) This subsection does not prohibit any conduct consisting of the disposal of a flag when it has become worn or soiled.
(b) As used in this section, the term 'flag of the United States' means any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, in a form that is commonly displayed.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as indicating an intent on the part of Congress to deprive any State, territory, possession, or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico of jurisdiction over any offense over which it would have jurisdiction in the absence of this section.
(d)(1) An appeal may be taken directly to the Supreme Court of the United States from any interlocutory or final judgment, decree, or order issued by a United States district court ruling upon the constitutionality of subsection (a).
(2) The Supreme Court shall, if it has not previously ruled on the question, accept jurisdiction over the appeal and advance on the docket and expedite to the greatest extent possible.

[edit on 1/10/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by MacKiller

Not only are we allowed to burn it, we can't even display it!

Actually, we aren't allowed to burn it.

There is no law saying that anyone can't. The Supreme Court ruled it a Freedom of Speech. And the Bush administration is trying for an amendment to prohibit it.

FYI: Texas Penal Code, Section 42.11: Destruction of Flag
(I don't feel like typing this all of this but here are the "highlights")

It's a Class A Misdemeanor in Texas to burn (or damage, deface, or mutilate) the U.S. flag (flag is defined in part as "an emblem, banner...other copy of an emblem").

Class A Misdemeanor sound mild? It's one step below felony and carries a penalty of up to one year in prison and a $4000 fine. (As an example...the second offense for DUI is a Class A.)

And, oops I almost forgot: the statute accords the exact same "protections" to the TEXAS flag.

Look, I understand that many, many people that served (and are serving) our country bravely and without hesitation read this Forum. People who have lost their brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers in service to America will read this; most if not all will find what I am about to post highly offensive and I am sorry (not for saying it, because it is the truth, but that the situation in the United States has deteriorated to the point that it has to be said to an audience in pain.)

Our armed services are not fighting for "liberty". THEY ARE BEING SENT LIKE LAMBS TO THE SLAUGHTER UNDER THE GUISE OF "FREEDOM". These are the darkest days in American history....because we WERE free, we DID have the respect of the entire world, and we were JUSTIFIABLY PROUD.

Because Americans love this country (the once and future America) so much, people young and old, of all ethnic groups, are WILLING TO DIE to protect America. Willing to die. Now these brave and trusting souls are being used: sacrificed, not for liberty nor freedom, because Americans have no (okay extremely diminished) liberty or freedom.

If you want to call me names...whatever. I care a hell of a lot more that people are being killed right now than your silly reindeer games.

Americans, Brits, Italians, Australian, Iraqi, Iranian lives..every life, is equal in value to the person and their families. That people are needlessly dying horrific deaths is a tragedy of great magnitude. That CHILDREN are dying...that is a cataclysm. Everyone who endorses these events by sitting idly by or supporting the actions of the U.S. in Iraq is just as responsible as those who ordered it.

Support our soldiers? Hell yes!!! To KNOW that they are willing to follow orders and protect America. THAT makes me proud to be an American. The American government does not.

Oh, and flags? Imagine how different things would be right now if laws were passed protecting the Constitution.
The Constitution IS America. The Constitution DEFINES America. Read it. Live it. And we will one day again have the freedom and liberty so many have died for.

Originally posted by Cassandra
If you want to call me names...whatever. I care a hell of a lot more that people are being killed right now than your silly reindeer games.

Silly reindeer games? I just reported an article about some men being ejected from football game for displaying the flag of the United States.

I hope you don't think for one minute that I don't care about our soldiers being pur into harms way, do you? If you do , then you're dead wrong.

Now let me ask you this. If we weren't in Iraq, do you think that the enemy would consider not attacking us any more?

Do you think that all the enemies of this country was satisfied with 9/11?

And on top of that, the terrorists that would have tried to cause havoc in this country are fighting the U.S. Armed Forces in Iraq as I type this. If they weren't there, where do you think they would be?

Originally posted by verfed
That is why you should carry around a bat. In case you see someone burning the flag.

Hey is it ok if I carry a second bat just in case the first one breaks from the beating.

Originally posted by marg6043
You know my husband as a 22 year veteran and retired he say that the flag should only be display following certain rules of the used and display of it, he knows all these rules by memory.

Its also supposed to be taken down at night if not illuminated, it may not be put higher than other nations flags except in wartime, and can't be used as or (i think) on articles of clothing. Plus, its supposed to be disposed of by burning. After 911, there wer lots of flags all over the place. Shortly, there were lots of flags that needed to be disposed of. One guy (i think this was on long island) was collecting them (i think in some sort of official capacity too, or with official support) for a fee and guarenteing to burn them together ceremoniously. He didn't. He just dumped them like rags in a garbage bump.

Whadda yerk.

Why, exactly, do you guys think it's such a bad thing when an American flag is burned?

By burning the flag you are protesting against the united states.

I see it as an expression of beliefs and ideas.

Yes, and that beleif is that the united states should be destroyed.

Dont like free speech? Move.

Calling for the overthrow of the US government is illegal. Thats also why it was illegal to be a member of the communist part in the US back in the day. The rule apparently has been relazed quite a bit. Extra-ordinarily tolerant country, one that lets people call for its destruction and lets them go unharrased.

Originally posted by torque
What bothers me about "the flag" is that every one I've found for sale over the past few years has been made in China.

Please Please, not so much irony in one thread, try to spread it out.

I bet the newer ones are made in teh US, like the stickers people put on their cars. YOu know, their gass-guzzling cars that make the nation dependant on a strategic resource controlled by other hostile countries? You know, those faded flags on everyones back window, or on teh bumper, next to the tailpipe, getting covered in soot and dirt.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I bet the newer ones are made in teh US, like the stickers people put on their cars......You know, those faded flags on everyones back window, or on teh bumper, next to the tailpipe, getting covered in soot and dirt.

I do believe a sticker of a flag and an actual flag are two different things!

Originally posted by Nygdan
Calling for the overthrow of the US government is illegal. Thats also why it was illegal to be a member of the communist part in the US back in the day. The rule apparently has been relazed quite a bit. Extra-ordinarily tolerant country, one that lets people call for its destruction and lets them go unharrased.

The big question is, is why is it illegal to call for the overthrow of the US government?

The founding fathers understood the need to deny tyranny and to fight for the freedom from the government should it be needed. I would think that if the government had any concern for the American people (when they clearly do not), then they would understand that we hold the power, and as the powerholders we can take it back should we deem them to be out of control.

The basic rights we have in America are to protect us and enable us to keep this country free by allowing the exposing of cancerous portions to our country, even within the American government.

The fact that the Federal government now seeks (and seeks more daily) to limit the purpose of the founding fathers and the basic country they created seems clear to me that our government is breaking from our control and is seeking to reclaim power from us (if it has not already done that, which many around here would say they have).

Again, the nature of protest, symbolism, and speech is subjective by nature and can not be summed up with trite one-liners.

It's too bad that the protestors are depicted as traitors and un-American when they are doing just as the founding fathers did (although the founding fathers also got to enjoy terrorist activities, but then again we all know what Tim McVey did )

If you burn the flag in protest, is it OK to put it out by urinating on it????

Seriously though, as angry as it makes me to see someone do this, I respect their right to burn it. It is, in my opinion, and should be, protected free speech.

It is something I would never, ever do.

I know everyone remembers how many flags sprung up after 9-11. Everyone had one on their car. Eventually they blew off the antenna, and the people didn't bother to stop and pick it up. That bothers me as much as those who burn it in protest.

Sometimes in my job, I have to walk the road right-of-ways, and I often see flags laying there. I can't just leave them there. I pick them up, properly fold them, and save them. I know they should be burned since they have touched the ground, but I would rather "rescue" them then see them destroyed. I have a lot of little flags, folded and on my bookcase at work.

Some people love that little piece of cloth and what it represents. I just love it enough to not put a baseball bat upside your head.