Seeds

I was watching Doomsday Preppers like everyone else that cruises the survival thread. XD

And a guy was a seed collector. He made a point of buying heirloom and organic seeds because they contain more seeds then the modified foods.

I have not given this much thought. I rarely see seeds that say:does not produce seeds so does the type you buy make a difference?
I thought this was an interesting point.

And me NOT having a green thumb, how much do you think a person needs to have on hand for the best chances for a family of three for a year?

If you grew only three vegetables(small yard) what has the best chances and is the most abundant? Or maybe takes the least amount of work.

Any information is appreciated.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Do not crop all your plants - let one or two go to flower - Collect the seed to plant next year.
If you wonder how much seed to save - go by how much seed a plant produces.
When you eat say chili or tomato or pepper etc save the seeds - seeds are invaluable and insurance for the future.
A single parsnip allowed to flower will yield enough seed to fill a small garden for example
- Nature is generous and expansive

reply to post by nixie_nox


Really, you want heirloom to collect seeds. More often you see hybrid seeds in the store. Heirlooms are cultivated as to keep as close to the original stock, and most likely will bear plants that resemble their parents. Hybrids are a cross of two different stocks, but create one heck of a nice product in their first generation, but in collecting their seed, tend to be like photocopies made from photocopies, they ~kind of~ seem the same, but loose something gernation after generation- somewhere down the line you won't get anything like you started growing.

Keep in mind, seed saving isn't quite as easy as it sounds. Different varieties of a species (say tomatoes) may have the same genus and species, which means they may create their own hybrid if cross pollinated. You can solve this by : A) Using a time buffer, where as one variety pollinates at a completely different time as another, or creating a screened cage that you alternate over groups of the same plant, so that bees can only pollinated one family of a plant per day.

As for how much? I get out of control (my garden is about 30' x 200'), but remember each "fruit" tends to bare many seeds (just think of when you cut into a squash). I suggest buying some good farming books and reading up :-D

Nixie most of the seeds produced by big-agri (you know the brand names) are hybrid seeds. On their packets you should see somewhere f1 or f2. This indicates how many generations removed the seed in the packet is from the original parent material. Almost always these seeds will not produce a second generation ie. if you planted f1 tomatoes and kept the seeds from the fruit grown they wouldn't germinate. This is not the case with heritage or pure strains.
As for how much you would need to feed your family, I guess that depends on how good a gardener you are to a certain extent and also your climate and water availability. The glib answer would be as much as you can source. It becomes quite daunting when you break it down. Vegetables, herbs both culinary and medicinal, fruits, grains, stock fodder, green manures.

www.edenseeds.com.au...

This list is a good starter, however the company is Australian. You would need to look at local sources obviously.
Good luck!
Silver

I guess it depends on where you are on the planet, but assuming that you are in the northern hemisphere, I find that tomato plants can really crank out the tomato fruit the entire growing season. You have to watch for worms, but I had more tomatoes than what I could handle with my cherry tomatoes plants this past year. One or two cherry tomato plants will give you fresh cherry tomatoes for months. Plus they climb upwards so you get get a large plant with little horizontal space.

I also find that tubers or underground-growing things like carrots, potatoes and onions are easy because they are below the ground, so you only have to worry about moles or gophers. Of course there is only one harvest, but you can plant some early and some later, so you have several harvests. These plants need soil that "gives", so if you have hard, clay-like soil like I do here in Texas, you have to till the soil up quite a bit so that it is loose and the root part that you eat can grow big.

Also, be aware that plants that some consider weeds, such as dandelions, are excellent in salads and all parts of the plant can be eaten, as long as the lawn hasn't been treated with pesticides.

reply to post by nixie_nox


why not go for broke
and get into aquaponics?

nterested in aquaponics? Go here to grow up to 10 times the plants, in half the time, while the "fish" do all the work! thelocalwebsolution.com... -End of Ad See below.

Growing power seems to have a winning combo going. I underestimated what they are doing. Based on the information in these videos, IF true, then on 3 acres they are producing 1,000,000 pounds of food each year! How are they doing this? Well, based on the information given in the video...

10,000 fish
300-500 yards worm compost
3 acres of land in green houses
Grow all year using heat from compost piles.
Using vertical space

A packed greenhouse produces a crop value of $5 Square Foot! ($200,000/acre).

Now, just to be clear I am not growing power or will allen. Also, a pound of plant or fish product is not the same thing as eatable food unless you process all parts of them for food. i.e. eating the fish bones and using plant stalks in stews. Generally, nations that are well fed throw away most of the plant and eat only the best parts thus lowing the yield of food.

Growing power depends on and runs on the HUGE amounts of compost they make from food waste that is taken from the city. With out this compost there would be no heat for the greenhouses and no fuel for the plants to grow. Its a great thing to divert this from the landfill and provide cheap food for the community.

My personal experience is that growing 7 pounds of food per square foot in a year is not that hard to do especially if you grow year around. You have to select plants that produce a lot of food in a small space which means you may not get a nutritionally complete diet if thats all you grow. Also layering of growth to use all space is important.

I personally use a 12 foot round pond 2.5 feet deep to grow 300+ pounds of fish in an aquaponic system and the bulk of my produce is grow using the biointensive method, in the ground, which is watered from the nitrogen rich fish water. My typical yield is between 6 and 9 pounds of food per square foot per year. This does require that I grow over winter which most people do not do. I find that growing in fall and winter months I actually get more production over fall and winter because there is NO bug problems! The crops do mature much slower, but they will mature! Think of it this way, the standard planted row may have 2 or 3 rows of veggies. Bio intensive will plant 12 rows; thats already 4 times the produce. Now add in onions, for example, that grow vertically above sweet potato vines, this increases production a lot. Now add to that 4 harvest per year vs the standard one season growing season. Now you have X4 more productivity. This brings us to X4X4 or 16 times the productivity of the standard growing methods. If you add to that hanging pot or what ever to add more growing space you have again increased productivity again. I personally have not used vertical space in that way. An snap shot of my experience is growing one sweat potato per 1.5' x 1.5' area (2.25 square feet) this one plant produces on average 12 pounds of root per plant and in that space I grow 4 to 6 leeks adding a pond of produce. Now, the vines grow all over the place, and I tie some up, are not confined to that 2.25 square feet of soil space. From each plant you can easily average 3 pounds of eatable leaves as you pick them over the growing season. At this point alone I am averaging 16 pounds of eatable food in 2.25 square feet or 16/2.5=7 pounds of food per square foot. Now that is in ONE GROWING SEASON. As I also grow fava beans, wheat, and fodder greens for two more seasons so my yelid is averaging 8 to 10 pounds in a year. IF I did this on 3 acres of growing space, excluding foot paths and green house walls ect then my production would be 8 pounds per square foot * 43560 feet acre * 3 = 1,045,440 pounds of food. It is possible to get even more by choosing the right crops and getting 4 harvest per year. I have settled on 4000 square feet of growing space per person for providing pretty much all the food a person needs. I suggest anyone starting this start with a very small garden and do it well. Something like a 5' by 20' growing bed would be the most you would start with.

SUGGESTED READING:
backyardaquaponics [dot] com/forum
Food Now by bountiful gardens
One Mexican Diet by bountiful gardens
Four Season Harvest by Eliot Coleman
Winter Harvest Handbook by Eliot Coleman

We grow a variety of organic plants and simply save the seeds from them - they always grow again no problem
And as the soil is improved so the yield and quality increases.
It is so important to feed the soil.

I saved seeds from tomatoes bought at a harvest market last year and had a 98% germination rate. Ditto for blue pumpkins and squashes. They look pretty healthy too. I recommend both heirloom and hybrid seeds. That way you can make your own crosses and experiment. If it comes down to gardening to live through hard times I recommend bio-hydroponic for niceties and lots of land for necessities. The more hands to work the better off you will be. The wider the variety of seeds you have the better off you will be.

I am starting a small garden this year and have made it a point to only buy organic seeds. I am getting mine from a small local seed company. From what I have researched, not only do many varieties of non organic seeds produce infertile seeds, but some actually don't produce seeds at all. Organic fruit and produce are also said to be more nutritious. Poor quality seed and vitamin count all hails from genetically modifying veggies and fruits. Thank people like Monsanto. I'm sure it poured over into all non organic varieties by now.

I started some Brandywine tomatoes about a week ago and plan to start some bell peppers and herbs soon. I live at 9000 feet so it won't be easy without a greenhouse. "Bringing the tomatoes in" will probably be a nightly occurrence for me

reply to post by PosterNutbag


Ha ha Yes - We ended up making jars and jars of Tomato Chutney with the excess
Is a great way to store for the leaner months.

Heirloom or hybrid doesn't matter as much as staying away from GMO seeds. Hybrids will just give you different characteristics of the parent plants in each seed where heirloom will give you the characteristics of the original seeds you planted.

reply to post by qhekf1998


Valuable information. Thank You.

reply to post by Silverkiss


this thread has been productive! Thank You.

I had no idea, I am glad I asked.

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Last year out tomatoe plants got INFESTED with those green tomato worms. it was so nasty that it has actually turned me off to tomotoes. I guess I need to get over it though.lol

reply to post by artistpoet


I have the worst problems growing because I live in the mid atlantic area of the US with this god awful clay for soil.

And buying soil is a massive expense I can't afford.

reply to post by nixie_nox


On the package most that I can recall say in small print,"not modified".
These are what you are looking for if you do not have a favorite, or standby seed.
In my area tomatoes, corn, and squash grow like weeds.
Heck if I add some onion and a bit of meat, that's one heckuva goulash!

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by artistpoet

 

I have the worst problems growing because I live in the mid atlantic area of the US with this god awful clay for soil.

And buying soil is a massive expense I can't afford.

I am no expert - Hope someone here can make some useful suggestions
Natural organic fertilizer and compost can only help in fact any organic matter dug in will help
The cloying way of clay needs to be broken up - Again I am no expert by any means

I wouldn't even worry about the seeds, if you don't have a green thumb and are planning on gardening you should be growing anything RIGHT NOW to learn how to do it.

It is a long process with LOTS to learn. This will be my 4th year and I still am a novice. Try growing the seeds inside now and then moving them out later. Learning by trial and error is the only way to go....

In an organic situation, there are so many variables. How to control bugs and what kinds of bugs eat certain plants, companion planting, what needs a lot of sun and what needs shade, how cold does it get in your area, what is the growing season in your area, what is the soil like in your garden, do you compost? and if so, what does your soil need most of, what grew well and what didn't, why or why not?, what do you do with all the food? do you know how to preserve it, can it, etc? once you have seeds do you know how to save them? that is a process unto itself....

In a SHTF situation, gardening with heirloom seeds or not, won't make much a difference if you don't know how. Assume your first crop won't be that spectacular, definitely won't be anything to feed a family with most likely.

Not trying to bum you out but I see a lot of people buy seeds for collapse scenario's and while that is good, it only helps if you know what to do with those seeds and are an experienced gardener with a plot of land growing food already. Just passing this along as these are things I experienced and I think are good to start thinking about...

Gardening is super fun and I've learned so much so get to it! Good luck, hope it all goes well....

reply to post by nixie_nox


You should have seeds for the following...
1.Food
2.Spices
3.Medicine
I will look for the link to where you can buy seeds for
all of your family's needs.
www.tradewindsfruitstore.com...

www.non-hybrid-seeds.com...

www.michiganbulb.com...


I have bought seeds from the first two links and dwarf fruit trees from the last one