Your 9/11 truth?

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

Newtonian physics are outdated because they do not factor in the differences in elastic and inelastic collisions. You should know this if you know even the most basic physics from grade school.

en.wikipedia.org...

OMG, what horsesh#!

Talk about relativity and quantum momentum all you want. 9/11 is about macroscopic masses and velocities less than 1/1000th of 1% of light speed.

psik

reply to post by thedman


maybe not a "proper investigation". But, why not A investigation?

Investigations should not begin until after the fire is put out, after the rescue and salvage operations are complete.

343 firefighters died that day doing what it is they do.

Do you think those 343 firefighters looked up at those towers and thought "# it, too hard of a job, let's all go back home."?????

No. You don't throw out the rulebook just because it's easier to do so. You don't change the laws to accomidate lazy excuses. You allow the authorities and professionals to do their damn job, or your opinion is moot, unprofessional, and lacking authority.

16 acres too much of a crime scene to allow fire investigators to do their job? B.S.

reply to post by Semicollegiate


This is irrelevant:

The fact that you have security on your computer makes any reliance on black boxes risky. Ultimately they are just electricity converted into a recording.

If you wrote that, it means that you actually haven't spent the time to research the complexities involved in an FDR, and how it works, and what it does. Hundreds of individual inputs are recorded....far, far more than just the few functions shown in the videos that are made to illustrate what happened.

Hwo long have the 757 and 767 been in production? That is how long they would have had to rig them.

Since the 1980s.

But again, that is irrelevant. The history and provenance of all four jets is well known....

Here, go to AirFleets.net The details are listed.

Here is the American Airlines fleet

These are the two B-767s that American has written off. Of those, this is N344AA, the one destroyed on 9/11, first to hit the Towers. Was built in 1987.

Here are the two American B-757s that have been written off. This is N644AA, crashed into the Pentagon. Was built in 1991.


Here is the United Airlines fleet

This is N612UA, the one B-767 that United has written off. It was built in 1983, making it one of the first in production. (Second to strike the Towers).

This is N591UA, the one B-757 that United has written off. Shanksville as flight 93. It was built in 1996.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

9/11 is a Scientific Farce and our engineering schools have created this problem by not explaining the simple. When has Richard Gage ever brought up the distribution of mass in the towers? I asked him about it in 2008.

Our engineering schools did not create your problem. Your problem is that you don't have enough knowledge about building construction and the physics involved in their destruction.

Skyscrapers are a broken record. The Empire State Building is 80 years old. They didn't even have stereo back then.

But they had to figure out how much steel and how much concrete to put on every level, didn't they?

So our engineering schools can manage to not discuss that about the WTC or any other skyscraper for the last TEN YEARS. None of them has built a model that can completely collapse either. If it was possible then why not just do it?

psik

Originally posted by windsorblue
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

I know you have issues with the formula I posted created by Dr Frank Greening on how the towers came down, but what if the first floor to collapse was rubble fell directly onto the supporting restraints when it hit the next floor down, componded with the fact of the weakend structure, would this not still have enough momentum to bring down the rest of the tower?

Nice how you turn a supposition into a fact.

I crossed swords with Frank Greening years ago.

His Potential Energy suppositions were absurd.

forums.randi.org...

psik

Originally posted by seagull
It would not overly surprise me if some Americans, too, were involved as a way to foment a war against the "evil that is Islam", or words to that effect... Were high level govt. officials involved?

Patterns exist in language that can manipulate peoples' thinking at a subconscious level.

Make a note of how rude Allah is?

note rude allah
minus the silent letters...
not rud alah
put together....
notrudalah
reversed in the mirror like so many other words ....

notrudalah reversed in the mirror = halaburton ... halliburton.

this doesn't have any effect on peoples' opinion makers you might say? Then why is there a school for such things at Goodfellow AFB in Texas, and why do American tax payers spend their money on such stuff???

beef / feed ... yes, we feed on beef.

trophy / effort .... yes, a trophy is nothing more than physical proof of an effort.

boots / stood .... yes, boots have been known to have stood.

one lip when it is round and open. And what is one of the first things any infant puts in their lip?

in lip
ni pil
nipple.

not b.s. here. neuro-linguistic programming capable of usurping free will and manipulating the thought patterns of hundreds of millions of people who were misled when taught that English only goes from left to right. (as though communication is a one way street)


We're going down or pick a fight with Iraq.
down or Iraq
V or Irak
Vor Irak reversed looks like: Karl Rov

And isn't USAMA BIN LADEN just an anagram for ABUSE MAINLAND?




The American people have been mind raped.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

Anyone who needed lots and lots of stuff to disappear economically, actually. A construction company sent to build a new road through mountains would no longer need heavy machinery, trucks full of dynamite, and armies of lawyers to protect themselves from the lawsuits filed by locals screaming YOUR DEMOLITIONS CRACKED MY FOUNDATION. Five or six of these incredible hush-a-boom explosives laid out in the right place, and BINGO, there's instantly a new road and it's home for bacon and eggs.

Just like they use nuclear explosives to excavate reserviors and harbors

Isn't bug spray essentially heavily diluted nerve gas that only affects organisms with simple nervous systems? I thought I had read that somewhere.

There weren't no bug spray till after nerve gas?

The reason for that is because they're still in the experimental stage and aren't economical for civilian use yet. This is literally the same situation with vehicles that ran on natural gas when the technology first came out. Now that the technology is practical, UPS is buying thousands of trucks that run on liquid natural gas.

I think it's safe to say that any prototype hush-a-boom explosives that could silently take down the WTC has proven itself to have been perfected.

You are saying custom built is the same as mass produced.

James Cameron is a civilian film maker. You've just proved what I said about technology originally created for a military application eventually winding up in the hands of civilians.

How do you know his technology came from the military? It might just be really expensive dream list metalurgy. Does every technology from the military wind up in the free market? No nerve gas for sale.

This doesn't apply to explosive formulas. Whatever new whiz-bang chemical composition they whipped up, unless the secret ingredient is something rare and exotic like lunar soil or human souls, they can very easily make more of the stuff...and I sincerely doubt the company making the stuff would waste their entire supply of lunar soil or human souls on blowing up the WTC.

Now that you mention it, there could be some kind of explosive they can only make in zero g that has a molecular structure like snowflake or a a furry fern.

Actually my general allusion it that there is some phenomenon that we don't know about that was used. The odds of that are about the same as or better than the odds of three symetrical collapses in one day.

reply to post by psikeyhackr

None of them has built a model that can completely collapse either. If it was possible then why not just do it?

They find no reason to do it. They understand the physics involved.
You on the other hand, don't understand the physics.
Perhaps you should attend the proper schools and bring up the subject. Make it your class project.

You haven't addressed my contention that if there was something amiss one of the thousands of students in the past ten years would have written papers on it. If you include the entire world there has to be tens of thousands of students that don't seem to find anything wrong with the collapse.
They have the balls to sleep in a park outside Wall Street but they don't have what it takes to fire off a paper the Wikileaks?

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Semicollegiate

 

I am amazed that people think remote controlled airplanes are beyond the capacity of any team of engineers.

Of course R/C is not "beyond the capacity".....it is the full context of facts that precludes R/C being involved on 9/11.

OK I think you may be right that the context was implicit for some of them. I think many voters equate a single flight with dependable service.

Firstly, there is no doubt of the two Boeing 767s and two Boeing 757s that were involved. But, to allege that they were somehow "retrofitted" to be capably of being remotely controlled?? Now you have to face a few facts.

The very task of the R&D alone to design, and then engineer such an installation is not something done overnight. And, it is not done without a great deal of testing, step-by-step, to work out any "bugs".

Then, even after all of that, there would be the many, many man hours of work needed for the actual conversion...on all four?? This means they would be taken out of service with the airline for that time period, something that could easily be shown to be false....since there is no record of such a thing happening.

It just doesn't sound that hard to take off, fly to this and that GPS point and not have to land again.

Finally.....the glaring fact that there are two of the "black boxes" (Flight Data Recorders) recovered and readable, with information intact. From AAL 77 and UAL 93. These show controls being manipulated in the cockpit in ways that would only be accomplished by Human hand. The sort of things that a "remote controlled" airplane would have non reason to do.

Black boxes assume an honest accident has occured.

Originally posted by windsorblue
reply to post by Semicollegiate

 

Whilst I agree that goverments have probably got lots of tech stuff we will never hear about, and remote controlling a plane could even happen...the problem I have with whole goverment behind the attack is the amount of people that would have to be involved in the background, tech & support staff to create the programme, ground staff to fit the system to the aircraft, a remote control pilot for the plane for example...All of the proposed ideas for 9-11 is easy to blame on the goverment, but if you think of what personnel would be needed to carry out the attack,and the planning this would involve for most of the situations the numbers of those involved would be immense, and not one of them thought that mass murder was madness? and not one of them has spoken of what happend to anyone? To me that doesnt seem plausable, but i'm happy for someone to put me right if they know something on this matter.

Good lord my spelling is woeful, long day in the office has turned me into a wreck.

edit on 9-3-2012 by windsorblue because: (no reason given)

The only people who need to know are the one guy on the joy stick or computer program and the few mechanics who actually hooked the stuff into the planes. Everybody else could be kept out of the loop, or be OK with it like some foreigners or zealous Americans

reply to post by ProudBird


911 has affected every one in the world, I think fooling a thousand wires in 10 years is not out of the question.

At this point those planes are missing in action, possibly next to the u-boats and the liberty ships at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

reply to post by Semicollegiate


Sigh......

At this point those planes are missing in action, possibly next to the u-boats and the liberty ships at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

No, the debris from all four was found right where they crashed. Two crashed in NYC, one in DC, and one in Pennsylvania.

The evidence is clear.

reply to post by Semicollegiate

The only people who need to know are the one guy on the joy stick or computer program and the few mechanics who actually hooked the stuff into the planes.

It's not that simple.

That programmer had a job before 911. I can just hear it.
What happend to John? He was our best programmer!
Oh he's on a special project. He'll be back in a couple of months.
And
Why are those two guys messing with our planes in our hannger?
Oh they are just checking out something.
But I just checked that plane last week it was perfect!
And
Now just why do you was us to take those planes out of sevice? Who are you to tell us not to fly our planes?
We are from the ### and we just need to check something.

There's always a paper trail. From people changing job assignments. To planes being taken out of service.
There's always a people trail. John has friends and they are going to wonder why he was taken off an important project for a couple of months. And they are going to ask him where he was when he comes back.

Have you ever heard of 'plane spotters'? These people hang out at airports and cataloge the comings and goings of airplanes. The log the tail number and even photograph them. They have contacts with pilots and ground personel. They have websites they live on.

You can't do this kind of thing in a vacuum.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Semicollegiate

 

Sigh......

At this point those planes are missing in action, possibly next to the u-boats and the liberty ships at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

No, the debris from all four was found right where they crashed. Two crashed in NYC, one in DC, and one in Pennsylvania.

The evidence is clear.

I don't watch TV that much but I remember Flight 800 being pulled up out of the ocean and being reassembled.
I don't remember any of the 911 planes being reassembled. Or even the pieces being layed out on a hangar floor. I guess when it comes to the wildest thing they never thought of, folks just know everything about it.

reply to post by Semicollegiate


The reason for the investigation of accidents such as TWA 800 is to determine the cause, since it was unkown and a mystery, until fully studied and re-created.

In the case of the 9/11 airplanes, the cause of their crashes was not in question.

reply to post by Semicollegiate

I guess when it comes to the wildest thing they never thought of, folks just know everything about it.

Reassembly is very expensive and is only done when there is a question as to why it crashed.
Just what would you be looking for when you did reassemble them?
You are not going to find many pieces unchanged by the collapse.

I would bet that most planes are not reassembled after a crash.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Semicollegiate

 

The reason for the investigation of accidents such as TWA 800 is to determine the cause, since it was unkown and a mystery, until fully studied and re-created.

I see the difference there, good logic

In the case of the 9/11 airplanes, the cause of their crashes was not in question.

The planes might have had evidence about the behavior of the towers.

How do they know for sure that the hijacked suicide planes had no explosives?

reply to post by samkent


Speaking of this:

I would bet that most planes are not reassembled after a crash.

It is generally only necessary when all pilots have been killed....in order to find probably cause.

For instance, American 1420 in Little Rock Arkansas:

Full NTSB Report AAL 1420


You can go to Section 2 and read all of the Analysis. There was no need to "reconstruct" that airplane as part of the accident investigation. Primarily because the First Officer was still alive to give testimony.

When you research other full NTSB Reports that involved fatalities for the entire flight crew, then the Reports describe the investigation of the debris, as they sought to determine cause.

Originally posted by Semicollegiate

 

Just like they use nuclear explosives to excavate reserviors and harbors

Hmmm. Are you one of those "tactical nukes in the basement" people?

There weren't no bug spray till after nerve gas?

Come now, you're starting to be absurd here. The bug sprays of yesteryear were a hell of a lot more dangerous than what we've got now, like DDT and arsenic based pesticides. Back in the middle ages they even used mercury.

You are saying custom built is the same as mass produced.

Close. I'm saying that when "custom built" becomes profitable the laws of economics says it becomes "mass produced".

How do you know his technology came from the military? It might just be really expensive dream list metalurgy. Does every technology from the military wind up in the free market? No nerve gas for sale.

His project didn't come from the military. The news story he released said the windows on his boat are made from a form of pyrex, which has been used to make kitchenware for over a hundred years.

What does any of this have to do with trying to find the truth of the 9/11 attack?

reply to post by Semicollegiate


I think the problem with supposing all sorts of technical wizardry to be behind 9/11 is that it would have required a large number of various experts and technicians in a wide range of disciplines. By definition these experts and technicians would tend to be law abiding and responsible members of society or they wouldn't be in their positions. They are not likely to be drug addicted psychopaths.

And yet, it is proposed that all these professionals agreed to take part in the mass murder of fellow citizens, men women and children, simply to promote some loony political agenda. And having done it, they all returned to their lawful occupations and have never breathed a word since. Not one of them got religion, developed a conscience, or a terminal illness which prompted them to confess. And what of the professionals who were approached but were not prepared to take part ? Why has nothing been heard from them ?

A technically complicated super-plot just isn't feasible on human terms. I suggest that there are not armies of highly qualified but completely amoral killers out there all too ready to attack their own.