Faster-than-light neutrino result reportedly a mistake caused by loose cable

I am totally not buying this excuse coming from a world class lab with world class scientists and technician crews... Someone from higher up has slammed the door on this I would bet... If this was to lead science into a new age using this discovery, think of all the practical applications science would come up with using this discovery..Something like this could change the world and industries very far reaching.. Putting power into the hands of all of the people (that tptb don't want having it)..

Not saying it would happen that way, but knowing how these people at the top are very paranoid of losing power..... It still is possible of course that it was a real mistake, but...

I think its completely plausible that this was the fault. Why is that so hard to digest? This experiment was not the first to measure the speed of neutrinos. Why is this experiment the only one saying there are superluminal speeds?

No, Relativity is sort of a Scientific "False Flag" thing....

It's real purpose is not to explain science or reality, or physics.... it's to keep the public sector's scientific research completely dead-ended so that no really revolutionary ideas or technologies are ever discovered.

It's literally a Red Herring.

Originally posted by constantwonder
Why is everyone so convinced this is "BS". This is a huge piece of physics that may not stand up to scrutiny. The research is ongoing and is trying to be duplicated.

After tightening the connection and then remeasuring the time it takes data to travel the length of the cable, researchers found that the data arrive 60 nanoseconds earlier than assumed, the website said. (More data will be needed to confirm this hypothesis, the site cautioned.)

Whilst I think relativity is relatively safe, the problem for me is reducing transmission time by 60ns by tightening an optical connector. The signal would travel approx 12m in 60ns. Something isn't right somewhere with this story. And it is usually the journalist that isn't right.

First it was a satellite GPS timer system. Now it is cabling fault. What next?

Why is it so difficult to accept paradigm shift?....

The tests are critical and a purpose for our evolution. It is to bridge space to new worlds in our conquest of space.

Imagine a space portal from New York to London. It will only take a few seconds for one to step through that portal. Imagine a portal from Earth to the nearest star system, light years away. With the discovery of faster than light particles, we may bridge that space even faster.

For thousands of years, we belived that the earth was flat, but not anymore. For thousands of years, we believe Matter exists in 3 states - gas, solid and liquid.

Add salt to tap water, it becomes salt water. Heat that water, and the residue recombines back to salt as water is evaporated.

Point is, there may be a fourth state of Matter - digitization, the conversion of matter into the 4th state - energy particles.

For long, we believed that only analog signals is the only way to send signals across space. Then came digitization, when we realize we can compact data within light to send across space. This is the initial step and proof of scientific evolultion capable in humanity.

It will be the changing of our mass and weight - matter, breaking down into energy particles, inorder to travel at the speed of lights or above, to brigde space, and then recombinning back into solid matter in another spot, that will be the focus of research attention for teleportation......

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

First it was a satellite GPS timer system. Now it is cabling fault. What next?

Why is it so difficult to accept paradigm shift?....

Because General and Special Relativity are red herring theories that are DESIGNED to retard public sector advances in Physics.

By being Completely wrong, and sold to the public as the Infallible Religion of Einstein.

BS!
a lose wire made them get a
signal to soon. (faster than light!)
at the receiving stationS?

please tell me how the single time
can beat light speed with a lose cable?

The thing that gets me is,do they really think people will buy this lie....please just look at the responses here.Loose wire really means...thats the last you mere mortals will get to hear of it.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
No, Relativity is sort of a Scientific "False Flag" thing....

It's real purpose is not to explain science or reality, or physics.... it's to keep the public sector's scientific research completely dead-ended so that no really revolutionary ideas or technologies are ever discovered.

It's literally a Red Herring.

Hahah wtf? You realize that relativity is something that can easily be tested at home, right? And is something that every undergraduate physics lab tests? Measuring the speed of light, for example, is something very simple to do. I did it years ago as a student.

Measuring time dilation is easy, too. I believe CRTs have to account for it otherwise the electron beam will not be focused properly on the screen.

And the math is so easy I learned it in jr high... Soooo not much to say against it other than "I refuse to understand it or do experiments to confirm it."

Also, unless you mean the laws of physics are actually fish, it is not literally a red herring.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
First it was a satellite GPS timer system. Now it is cabling fault. What next?

We knew it was a GPS timing problem, we now know that timing problem was caused by a cable. What's the problem?

Why is it so difficult to accept paradigm shift?....

Because it's not, it's just wrong. It's not a mathematically consistent thing.

Let me put it in terms even ATS can understand.

Imagine you are keeping tack of money during a transaction. I buy something for $10 from my friend, who has no money.
Before: Me = $10, Friend = $0.
After: Me = $0, Friend = $10.
In each of these cases, the total amount of money is $10, because $10 + $0 = $0 + $10 = $10.
(This is clearly true no matter how much money we used.)

Therefore, any measurement anyone else (e.g., the IRS) does of this transaction must determine that the total amount of money involved was $10.

Let's say I have $20, and give $10 to my friend, who starts with $5.
Before: Me = $20, Friend = $5, Total = $25.
After: Me = $10, Friend = $15, Total = $25.

Any measurement determines the total is $25.

This absolutely always must always be the case, by the laws of arithmetic.

If any measurement says, say, the total was $20 instead, it's because they made a mistake (say, they forgot my friend started with $5). It is ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED they made a mistake if they get a different answer, and this has nothing to do with the rules of economics, or any theory or "theory." It's just addition.

We can be sure, for the same kinds of reasons, that any measurement that says something goes faster than light is an error. It's guaranteed by math. If you ever get a bigger number, it's because you left something else out.

reply to post by Moduli

Hahah wtf? You realize that relativity is something that can easily be tested at home, right?

Would you like to explain that one?

And is something that every undergraduate physics lab tests? Measuring the speed of light, for example, is something very simple to do. I did it years ago as a student.

Would you like to explain how you measured it?

Measuring time dilation is easy, too. I believe CRTs have to account for it otherwise the electron beam will not be focused properly on the screen.

you BELIEVE, eh?

Would you like to cite some studies?

And the math is so easy I learned it in jr high

Would you like to explain which junior high school taught advanced matrix transformations?

No, seriously.... Which one?

"I refuse to understand it or do experiments to confirm it."

I'm hearing a lot of barking, little doggie... So, are you going to bite?

Or are you just going to yap all day long?

Also, unless you mean the laws of physics are actually fish, it is not literally a red herring.

Wow... I can't believe that..... you just... I mean.... wow.

en.wikipedia.org...

Learn.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Moduli

 

Hahah wtf? You realize that relativity is something that can easily be tested at home, right?

Would you like to explain that one?

Yes. It can be easily tested at home.

And is something that every undergraduate physics lab tests? Measuring the speed of light, for example, is something very simple to do. I did it years ago as a student.

Would you like to explain how you measured it?

Interferometry.

Measuring time dilation is easy, too. I believe CRTs have to account for it otherwise the electron beam will not be focused properly on the screen.

you BELIEVE, eh?

I also believe you need a dictionary.

Would you like to cite some studies?

I would like to cite the way a CRT works.

And the math is so easy I learned it in jr high

Would you like to explain which junior high school taught advanced matrix transformations?

Advanced? There is no "advanced" matrix multiplication. There is just matrix multiplication. And I did learn that in jr. high pre-algebra classes.

However, what I was referring to was the hyperbolic geometry that defines special relativity, which is a simple extension of the kind of basic geometry many jr high students learn.

OTOH, I did not go to a remedial school, so YMMV.

Wow... I can't believe that..... you just... I mean.... wow.

en.wikipedia.org...

Learn.

en.wiktionary.org...

Learn!

reply to post by Moduli

Yes. It can be easily tested at home.

You seem to be under the impression that the above was an explanation, as opposed to an outright dismissal of my request for an explanation.

I see that you are having trouble understanding basic requests.

Please try again.

Interferometry.

Would you like to use that in a sentence?

Or, perhaps.... I don't know... an actual explanation?

I also believe you need a dictionary.

Oh.... Good one.... You gonna keep barking? Or are you going to back up your assertions with an actual explanation?

I would like to cite the way a CRT works.

A heated tungsten filament in a vacuum is situated inside of an alterable magnetic/electrostatic field in such a way that the electrons expelled from the tungsten filament are accelerated towards the screen(anode) that contains pixels made of phosphor.

As the magnetic/static field sweeps the path of the electron beam across the horizontal rows, and down the vertical columns, the intensity of the electron beam is altered in time with the input signal to create patches of various intensity at specific points in the horizontal and vertical sweep, thus creating differing levels of light intensity, which are known as pixels that comprise an image.

So, would you like to explain where relativistic effects come into play?

Because you still haven't actually offered an explanation for all of that barking you are doing.

Advanced? There is no "advanced" matrix multiplication. There is just matrix multiplication. And I did learn that in jr. high pre-algebra classes.

However, what I was referring to was the hyperbolic geometry that defines special relativity, which is a simple extension of the kind of basic geometry many jr high students learn.

en.wikipedia.org...

suck it.

en.wiktionary.org...

Learn!

Literally a Red herring Fallacy.

As opposed to Not a Fallacy... Duh.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia

Interferometry.

Would you like to use that in a sentence?

Or, perhaps.... I don't know... an actual explanation?

I used interferometry to measure the speed of light. If you don't understand those words then this discussion is not for you. It's like complaining that me saying "I measured distance with a ruler" is not explaining how I determined a distance.

[...] magnetic [...] field [...]
So, would you like to explain where relativistic effects come into play?

Uhh, yeah, let me give this one a shot. Electromagnetism includes relativity. So it comes into play in the whole thing and the entire point of electromagnetism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Spelling out components of matrices makes things less advanced, not more. Also you don't use the metric in special relativity, you use the line element. In other words the Pythagorean theorem in hyperbolic geometry. In other words, I learned it in jr high.

suck it.

I have a degree in string theory. Suck it.

Literally a Red herring Fallacy.

As opposed to Not a Fallacy... Duh.

Literally illiterate. How ironic!

reply to post by Moduli

I used interferometry to measure the speed of light. If you don't understand those words then this discussion is not for you. It's like complaining that me saying "I measured distance with a ruler" is not explaining how I determined a distance.

Interferometry is the measurement of interference of light waves.

What you are saying is not that you measured distance with a ruler, What you are saying is that you measured speed, with WAVE INTERFERENCE.

Now, would you like to explain HOW you did this? Or are you just going to keep BARKING?

Uhh, yeah, let me give this one a shot. Electromagnetism includes relativity. So it comes into play in the whole thing and the entire point of electromagnetism.

And that, was a FAIL.

You might as well state that measuring current through a wire needs to account for relativity....

Your presumption is just stupid.

If you aren't going to explain what you are talking about, then you might as well just stop yapping about it, because you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Spelling out components of matrices makes things less advanced, not more. Also you don't use the metric in special relativity, you use the line element. In other words the Pythagorean theorem in hyperbolic geometry. In other words, I learned it in jr high.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh, yeah.... time dilation is simple, eh?

Then go ahead and use your simple mathematics on the Electron gun from the CRT.

No, go ahead... i'll wait...

I have a degree in string theory.

I'm sorry.

Suck it.

You have yet to present anything to suck.

Literally illiterate. How ironic!

And yet I'm reading all of these fancy words...


Your posts are sound and fury signifying nothing... Put up or shut up.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia

Interferometry is the measurement of interference of light waves.

If only there was some obvious relationship between interference and wavelength, or wavelength and speed. Geeze, I guess this is an increasingly difficult puzzle that will take mankind centuries to figure out! It couldn't possibly be expressed in like one or two basic algebraic equations!

Now, would you like to explain HOW you did this? Or are you just going to keep BARKING?

I did it by understanding what those words even mean. Now, would you like to spend a few minutes reading a physics book before you claim all of physics is wrong?

And that, was a FAIL.

You might as well state that measuring current through a wire needs to account for relativity....

IT DOES! Amazing, I know. Because, you see, the place Maxwell's equations--the ones that include relativity--came from. Yeah, they came from understanding circuits.

Unless to you "measuring current" means "looking at the numbers on the ammeter" because, yeah, you don't need to know anything to read digits. But it's not like the ammeter is doing any work for you, no, that would be crazy.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oh, yeah.... time dilation is simple, eh?

Yes, it is!!! There is one basic algebraic equation there!!! Square roots, division, and powers are not complicated!!!

Then go ahead and use your simple mathematics on the Electron gun from the CRT.

F = q ( E + Bxv)
Done! Simple math! A multiplication, a vector multiplication, an addition, and that's it! So simple I literally learned it in junior high!

reply to post by Moduli


Yeah, I was waiting for you to fix your quotes....

If only there was some obvious relationship between interference and wavelength, or wavelength and speed. Geeze, I guess this is an increasingly difficult puzzle that will take mankind centuries to figure out! It couldn't possibly be expressed in like one or two basic algebraic equations!

IS that all you got? Really?

You can't simply explain what you are talking about?

You really DON'T know what you are talking about, do you?

I did it by understanding what those words even mean. Now, would you like to spend a few minutes reading a physics book before you claim all of physics is wrong?

Not all of it, just relativity...

IT DOES! Amazing, I know. Because, you see, the place Maxwell's equations--the ones that include relativity--came from. Yeah, they came from understanding circuits.

Would you like to explain WHY current flowing through a wire needs to account for relativity?

And in what way?

Come on... I know that you think you are smart enough, and educated enough to do so..... why not just DO it already, instead of dancing around the issue like you don't know?

Yes, it is!!! There is one basic algebraic equation there!!! Square roots, division, and powers are not complicated!!!

Oh... you are only messing with 2 dimensions, aren't you?

That explains it...

F = q ( E + Bxv)
Done! Simple math! A multiplication, a vector multiplication, an addition, and that's it! So simple I literally learned it in junior high!

Now, now.... you must explain to the rest of the class how that effects the electrons flowing from the filament to the anode.....

I can put some fancy mathematical calculations up here too... it don't make them right.

You have to SHOW your work.... remember?

Originally posted by Moduli
Hahah wtf? You realize that relativity is something that can easily be tested at home, right? And is something that every undergraduate physics lab tests? Measuring the speed of light, for example, is something very simple to do. I did it years ago as a student.

That's very deceptive.

There's a major difference between using professional lab equipment vs. testing it at home with a fork and a small flashlight.

reply to post by imherejusttoread

That's very deceptive.

There's a major difference between using professional lab equipment vs. testing it at home with a fork and a small flashlight.

You seem to be missing the point...

He's not arguing, he's Attacking with ad homenims, attempts to ridicule, and appeals to authority.

He hasn't actually SAID anything yet.

Originally posted by EasyPleaseMe
Whilst I think relativity is relatively safe, the problem for me is reducing transmission time by 60ns by tightening an optical connector. The signal would travel approx 12m in 60ns. Something isn't right somewhere with this story. And it is usually the journalist that isn't right.

This is my thoughts as well. Many major labs, especially the quality of CERN's have sensors on everything and all equipment is checked almost obsessively.

I'm curious to see this play out, but the impulsive journalists who claim this as refutation of the past two or so experiments have already revealed their convictions.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
reply to post by Moduli

 

IS that all you got? Really?

You can't simply explain what you are talking about?

You really DON'T know what you are talking about, do you?

You really don't even want to spend the three seconds it takes to figure out how DISTANCE might be related to SPEED??

Would you like to explain WHY current flowing through a wire needs to account for relativity?

And in what way?

Yeah, THEY'RE THE SAME EQUATIONS. That's the way! Maxwell's equations. Learn them! Understand them!

Yes, it is!!! There is one basic algebraic equation there!!! Square roots, division, and powers are not complicated!!!

Oh... you are only messing with 2 dimensions, aren't you?

One equation for each direction. Still trivial. Not to mention you can always rotate things so motion is linear in special relativity because it's about inertial frames only (which I'm SURE you know since you're clearly an expert here).

That explains it...

F = q ( E + Bxv)
Done! Simple math! A multiplication, a vector multiplication, an addition, and that's it! So simple I literally learned it in junior high!

Now, now.... you must explain to the rest of the class how that effects the electrons flowing from the filament to the anode.....

The Lorentz force law: learn it. I can't do your learning for you.
I'll even give you the link!
en.wikipedia.org...
particularly note: it is relativistic:
en.wikipedia.org...
and WIRES:
en.wikipedia.org...-carrying_wire

All you need to do is READ, it's all spelled out for you!