Before Adam and Eve there was...

Originally posted by Klassified
a whole other species of human?

In this thread, I’m not looking to prove or disprove the reality of the bible, Christianity, or God. Nor am I trying to give, or take away, substance to or from myths and legends per se.

From a scientific point of view as we go back in time humans stop being humans and are another species, and it is not as far back as one would think. If we go back 50k years there is a good chance we would be different enough that inter breeding would not work...we go back farther and we have a different species.

Looking at Adam and Eve I see it as a great metaphor for when man became man. I see the Garden of Eden as the innocent world of animals, and when they bit the apple from the tree of knowledge they became self-aware and put clothes on and were kicked out of the garden (the world of not self-aware).

If is kind of a story that starts when the evolution of man reached the point of self-awarness....

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Klassified
a whole other species of human?

In this thread, I’m not looking to prove or disprove the reality of the bible, Christianity, or God. Nor am I trying to give, or take away, substance to or from myths and legends per se.

From a scientific point of view as we go back in time humans stop being humans and are another species, and it is not as far back as one would think. If we go back 50k years there is a good chance we would be different enough that inter breeding would not work...we go back farther and we have a different species.

Looking at Adam and Eve I see it as a great metaphor for when man became man. I see the Garden of Eden as the innocent world of animals, and when they bit the apple from the tree of knowledge they became self-aware and put clothes on and were kicked out of the garden (the world of not self-aware).

If is kind of a story that starts when the evolution of man reached the point of self-awarness....

50,000ish years ago there was likely interbreeding with Homo sapiens and Homo Neanderthal.
Funny enough both would be considered "self aware" as many of our hominid brothers were.

Hell I can think of a living non-human ape that shows a lot of "human traits" you are referring too.
www.sciencedaily.com...

To Klassified,
One word,-OAHSPE. Published in 1882, purporting to be "a sacred history of the dominions of the higher and lower heavens on the earth"...(Creation of Man, The Planets, The Unseen Worlds,etc.) You can Google it,probably. Long story short: If you are ready to get your head twisted,get it and read the 921 pages(plus a 21 page index). It is written in "Biblical"form, so it might get nauseating ,especially when you get to some of the "Names" ,that are spelled out ! Author was John Ballou Newbrough,DOB 6/6/1828 Springfield,Ohio. Big Powerful man, got into many adventures. Eventually became a Dentist, and settled in New York City. It was here where he supposedly had visions that urged him to become purified in both body and spirit, to prepare himself for the writing of a great book. (It`s a hell of a story, but too long to explain.) Anyway, he finished the book and if you want a "different" out look on what`s what and who`s who, then this is your book. I can tell you that there are many surprises within, plus it also gives you a :picture" of America, 24,000 years ago(That in it self is interesting). So, if you`re really willing to investigate "different" opinions and views this is your baby. Although, there are several biblical characters and persons of historical importance, that seem to be intimately described therein. Good Luck, if you go for it!

Lewis Ginzberg wrote four volumes of "Legends Of The Jews" - I think you can bring it up on internet for download. In volume 1 of Legends Of The Jews in the beginning of the first volume there is the explanation of the legend of Lilith. It is not recorded in the Hebrew bible but is strictly Jewish legend.

Adam was very lonely according to this account and God saw that he needed company so He made this creature, Lilith, in like manner as He made Adam. But such as it is , Lilith wanted equality with Adam and not to be submissive to his authority. Something like we have now in most of the world. Lilith apparently could fly (don't ask me ) and flew away from Adam. Adam complained to his papa and God sent out three angels to round her back to the fold. The angels found her at the red sea and threatened her with all sorts of punishments but she was so stubborn that they finally gave up on the ole girl. Lilith takes her revenge to this day by injuring baby boys on the first night of their lives. She also teaches the baby girls how to upset the boys and drive them crazy. And that folks is the ole gal named Lilith. Nothing really new is there?

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
No humans, just Neanderthals and Dino. Humans were born of God, then the jealous Watchers who were supposed to look after us humans without getting directly involved decided they wanted to rule over us humans directly. They taught man all the wicked ways and then took our human women to mate with. By mating with our human women they created godless, soulless half breed giants (Nephlim). These Giants and their fathers built the pyramids and other sites around the world that we still cant build today, like Baalbek.

God sent his Arch Angles to deal with the Watchers, then the flood to drown the Giants and all the wickedness in the world.

I have never heard that before, but thats a good little theory

Originally posted by dayve

Originally posted by Patriotsrevenge
No humans, just Neanderthals and Dino. Humans were born of God, then the jealous Watchers who were supposed to look after us humans without getting directly involved decided they wanted to rule over us humans directly. They taught man all the wicked ways and then took our human women to mate with. By mating with our human women they created godless, soulless half breed giants (Nephlim). These Giants and their fathers built the pyramids and other sites around the world that we still cant build today, like Baalbek.

God sent his Arch Angles to deal with the Watchers, then the flood to drown the Giants and all the wickedness in the world.

I have never heard that before, but thats a good little theory [




It's no theory it is the truth, the sixth day creation , all the races were assigned angels to watch over them and to teach them how to work stone and metals , the medicinal uses of plants and hunting , astronomy and all else they needed to repopulate the world. To understand Genesis you must understand the one day to God equaled a thousand years according to man

reply to post by ImpartialObserver


she is not mentioned in the bible,she is reffered to in the babylonian talmud,the epic of gilgamesh,and in jewish mythology.her name has been found inscribed on pottery and the like as talismans to ward off her evil,much like pazuzu and other demons of that era.

Originally posted by galacticgirl
While reading another thread on ATS I came across a link to something called the Terra Papers - very long - maybe over 40 pages - but I spent the weekend reading it. One possible theory for the creation of mankind. It made a lot of sense to me and tied a number of theories together. I would suggest you Google The Terra Papers if you are interested - buckle your seat belts and get ready for a real ride.

Thank you. I have read the Terra Papers. An interesting and incredible tale. I kept waiting for Luke Skywalker to show up. According to that story we should find very ancient ruins all over our solar system.

reply to post by harrytwo


Thanks. I will be tracking this down. Sounds intriguing. It wouldn't be the first 900-1000 page book I've ever read.

If you are ready to get your head twisted...

Sounds like part of the description of "The Convoluted Universe".

reply to post by Seede

I can see I've got a lot of reading ahead of me. Thanks. I'll check it out.

reply to post by IluvJuice


I think what makes man different than other life here on earth is our self-awareness mixed with the ability to think in the abstract. I do agree there are other self-aware creatures, like dolphins, some chimps maybe elephants too, but I think we are the only one with the ability for the abstract too, hence the reason why we are aware of something abstractedly like religion.

Originally posted by ImpartialObserver

Originally posted by reficul
reply to post by icepack

 

lilith was adam's first wife,and god kicked her out of the garden for not obeying adam.
later in jewish mythology,she was a demon who was responsible for killing a child during child birth.

Would you mind showing me where Lilith appears in the bible?

i guess its not in the scriptures that were picked by the council of early christians that became the bible, but there are scriptures about a woman named lilith. at least, thats what the documentary said.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Read carefully. God created the heavens and the earth, then verse 2 continues: " 2 Now the earth was formless and empty" You can interpret this as a follow up on the creating of earth, or as a fact after thousands of years after the original creation. What was in between? When God began creation of our world as we know it (flora, fauna, us) there was a formless and empty world. There could have been another creation before it.

Some speculate that the original inhabitants of the earth were angels. Satan is the ruler of the earth, could it've been that he was cast down here from another planet, were he ruled as a high angel before his rebellion? That would explain the empty form of the earth when our creation started.

God doesn't create something awful, he never did, there is, to my knowing, not one passage in the bible that tells us otherwise. It seems to me that verses one and two of the genesis are overlooked. There was more before we were created (dinosaurs, created by satan?), but we don't have to know about it it seems.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by BellaSabre

 

The last Humans, and some of the Cylon survivors settled together on another planet. The series doesn't say the new planet had an indigenous species, but you could assume it I suppose from it's lush landscape and water, etc.

Interesting series if you have an interest in a mix of sci-fi and mythology.

edit on 2/22/2012 by Klassified because: punctuation and clarity

Actually it clearly showed an indigenous species of human on the planet they settled on.

reply to post by Xeven


Thanks. I didn't recall that. Now I have to dig it out and watch it again to refresh my memory.

According to the book of Enoch There were about 200 angels who came down from space and landed on Mt. Herman. From what I understand these angels were celestial beings and being so were not of the genealogy as mankind, If this is true then aren’t these space creatures in fact a civilization from space?

I read, some years ago, that these angels were thrown down to Mars from God’s estate and that Mars gradually became so desolate that they left Mars and came to this world. NASA has now concluded that indeed Mars was once a habitual world with the possibility that life could have flourished on the planet.

The book of Enoch tells us that these space people (angels) took wives from the descendants of Adam and through many years of procreation they produced another civilization of giant people. Regardless of the terminology, that is the basic story of the biblical giants. This all happened about 460 years after Adam’s creation and in the days of Jared (Yered) who was the great grandson of Enosh (not Enoch). The book of Enoch tells us that through over 700 years of this breeding produced the giants of the bible.

There is a work of a man named James H. Charlesworth and he is a very well known scholar of the old testament. He has two volumes of work called “The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha” which can be purchased through Amazon on the internet. In volume 1 of two volumes, Charlesworth states that the giants of Enoch were 300 cubits tall while other accounts say that they were 3,000 ells tall. I use the cubit because it is more documented than the ell. If we multiply 300 cubits by 13 inches to a cubit, we get 3,900 inches total. Then in order to convert that to feet we divide the 3,900 inches by 12 inches. This shows us that Enoch’s giants were about 325 feet tall.

I used today’s cubit (13 inches) simply for the sake of what most people believe a cubit is. A cubit is not a yardstick but only a means of measurement. In other words a cubit is the measurement of the average creature in that era and can vary from one era to another. The great Pyramid of Giza was built upon the Egyptian cubit and is called the Royal cubit. Today the cubit is about 13 inches because men are much smaller than before the flood. There was a cubit of man and a cubit of giants in that day according to Deut. 3:11. So when you measure the giants of that day you really do not know whether it is the cubit of a man or the cubit of a giant but I suppose it is the cubit of a man because a man (Enoch) was writing the book. So in effect I am led to understand that Enoch is telling us that the giants were at least 300 feet tall. That sounds pretty far fetched till you see some of those ancient redwood trees which measure over 370 feet tall and are over 1500 years old. Would blow your mind just to look at them.

What is my point here? Well some years ago I was reading a book called “Innocents Abroad” by Mark Twain. Lots of people don’t know that he wrote non fiction as well as fiction. Mark took a trip around the world and wrote the book on his experiences. Here is an excerpt from “Innocents Abroad” --------------------

---------------------

“Back yonder, an hour's journey from here, we passed through an Arab village of stone dry-goods and boxes (they look like that) where Noah's tomb lies under lock and key. [Noah built the ark] Over these old hills and valleys the ark that contained all that was left of a vanished world once floated. I make no apology for detailing the above information. It will be news to some of my readers, at any rate. Noah's tomb is built of stone, and is covered with a long stone building. Bucksheeth let us in. The building had to be long, because the grave of the honored old navigator is two hundred and ten feet long itself. It is only about four feet high, though. He must have cast a shadow like a lightening rod.
The proof that this is the genuine spot where Noah was buried can only be doubted by uncommonly incredulous people. The evidence is pretty straight. Shem, the son of Noah, was present at the burial and showed the place to his descendants, who transmitted the knowledge to their descendants, and the lineal descendants of those introduced themselves to us to-day.”
-----------------------

Noah lived in those days of the giants and according to the Jewish Anthology there was a giant named Og who knew Noah and did survive the flood. In fact the giant Og is mentioned in the Hebrew bible several times.

Mark Twain is telling us that the Arab’s believed that Noah’s grave was 210 feet long. My question is why would anyone believe that Noah’s grave was 210 feet long even if we knew that was his grave? I am led to believe through Mark’s writing that 210 feet is not too unbelievable for those people to believe. I’m sure that the Arabs were not trying to sell Mark a bill of goods because Mark said the grave was guarded under lock and key. Could it be that Adam’s generation was a race of giants by our standards of today? Or even that we are now a different civilization of people today? Could it be that Enoch is not far off when he says that his giants were about 300 feet tall? That could mean that the giants were about 100 feet taller than Noah and that that is why the old navigator looked up and could see another guy 100 feet taller than him. That could mean that we may be a genetically different civilization than that of the flood era.

So the whole point here is – Perhaps there were prior civilizations before and after the creation of Adam. If you take one portion of the bible then who is to say the other portions are not true or true also? If Noah was about 210 feet tall then his boat must have been a lot larger than what they are looking for today.

Got any ideas out there in ATS land?

reply to post by Seede


If your giant race was about 300 feet tall, how did that come about, extra terrastials of that size mating with earth's women would have been impossible, the women would have burst open.
Unless you believe that they had genes that created these giants from normal size beings?

There are no such thing as "bipedal" human-like giants....never was nor will there ever be. It is physically impossible. There is actually a physics/mathematical formula out there somewhere that proves this. I however...am not going to take the time to look it up...Here is a page about how Galileo even knew it was impossible...simple type explanation but effective enough to make the point.

galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu...

The biblical reference is...as I said before...a mistranslation by the Greeks when translating from ancient Hebrew. You have to remember...in some languages...there are words that have no direct translation...the Greeks had many stories of Giants and Titans...so...they infused their "boogie men" into the story...to try and have something applicable to describe a word they had no translation for...it is not what the Hebrew word means. When the Greek texts were then translated into more and more languages, the mistake stayed...it's really that simple.

reply to post by Klassified


If only we knew, even when we use science we are still somewhat stabbing in the dark. I was thinking the other day of how (if i believed in Adam and Eve creation I would justfiy dinosaurs. I thought perhaps god created these extravagent creatures of all types yet once god had created them it wanted to create something that would be able to comprehend the complexity of its creation, so it whiped out the dinosours knowing that dinosaurs would not be able to live side by side with human beings and allowed smaller more managable animals to remain so that humans and animals could live side by side.

Or....

Big bang sort of situation

Originally posted by Xtrozero
From a scientific point of view as we go back in time humans stop being humans and are another species, and it is not as far back as one would think. If we go back 50k years there is a good chance we would be different enough that inter breeding would not work...we go back farther and we have a different species.

Sorry, but that's utter BS. 50,000 years is about 2,000 human generations. Neanderthals and Homo sapiens managed to interbreed even after 300,000 - 600,000 years of reproductive isolation.