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A Conspiratorial History of Iran

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posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 07:32 AM

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
When I dig deeper into a topic I like to ask myself critical questions, odd questions. Such as. We all know that the Mossadegh coup occurred in August of 1953. I asked myself the question : Where was Nixon?

Actually, as a confirmed conspiracy theorist myself, I am a little surprised, now that you mention it, that I didn't ask myself that question...because it is a damn fine one...well done there Sir. Nixon was, afterall, was the handpicked whipping boy/golden child of the post-war US Capitalists who had profitted most from the Nazi regime, and most particularly the slave labour programme and IG Farben.

I'm going to carry on reading what you have posted now...but bloody good job, and thanks.

posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 07:55 AM

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
But I'm having trouble tracking down exactly where was Nixon on the 18th 19th and what was he doing that week. Maybe I am wrong but it helps me to understand how Nixon and his wife were directed to Tehran in December of 1953. Perhaps it was a "business meeting" and Nixon was there to consolodate power for the Shah by appearing with the Shah's regime at the time.

Reading between the lines of Eisenhower's letter to the Shah about Nixon's visit, I am guessing that Nixon had firstly a suitcase of money with him, and secondly, what Iran most needed, a deal to supply steel. I'd love to know Nixon's itinery...wonder if he met with SAVAK representatives...

Either way, it does seem to express that the Shah was not entirely as ease with the situation and needed reassurance of some kind...

The photos were a real insight too as you say, particularly of the differences between the ruling class, and the rural peoples.

Please do post more as you find it, I'm currently focusing on the 60s and 70s, and am revisiting Operation Thinderbolt, because I think there may be some clues to be found there...but I am going through books, so it could be some time before I come up with anything tangible.

Many thanks for posting.

posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 02:55 PM
reply to post by InfoKartel

I'm wondering if you can help me...I was thinking about this...

In June 2009, the U.S. President Barack Obama in a speech in Cairo, Egypt, talked about the United States' relationship with Iran, mentioning the role of the U.S. in 1953 Iranian coup saying:

This issue has been a source of tension between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran. For many years, Iran has defined itself in part by its opposition to my country, and there is indeed a tumultuous history between us. In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has played a role in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. This history is well known. Rather than remain trapped in the past, I have made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward.[122]

Particularly as I have bolded, now apart from the taking of the 52 hostages at the US embassy, I am struggling to get any sort of definitive idea of specific incidences that the POTUS could be referring to...perhaps he doesn't know himself, it is a very vague statement. But I am digging and not finding much at all. A couple of hijackings, which didn't yeild any victims, simple cases of planes being redirected to land elsewhere and then off they went on their merry way. What am I missing?

I've been looking at Entebbe, because one of the PLO leaders was the target of an assassination attempt by someone 'alleged' to have a held a Iranian passport, Ahmad Bazrat. But that is a dead end. I've checked in the The Terrorist List and there is nothing more on him other than what was known in 1970 at the time of the assassination attempt. The target, Wadi Hadad, has since been identified as being a Russian asset since just prior to that attack, which is interesting.

Where are all these supposed attacks against US citizens and military by Iran?

I did find that Iran claimed to have sent the UN a list of US run terrorist groups operating in Iran and bordering regions, with details late last year...but nothing seems to have come of that one way or another.

And claims that Israel is targeting Nuclear Scientists in Iran< br />
So what exactly is Obama referring to?

edit on 2-3-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by InfoKartel

So what exactly is Obama referring to?

edit on 2-3-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)

Not that I endorse every estimation of this website, but here is list of alleged state-sponsored terrorism which is claimed to be linked to Iran. Most of these attacks are committed by proxies like Hezbollah.

posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 03:31 PM
reply to post by Drunkenshrew

Thanks Drunkenshrew! So really, what we are seeing here, is Iran doing exactly what the US does? And lots of finger pointing by both sides. Certainly neither side can be considered in the right.

posted on Mar, 3 2012 @ 03:38 AM
reply to post by Biliverdin

I'm not aware of assaults on the US by Iranians. Maybe it is indeed as Drunkenshrew says, and Obama meant via proxy, but that's always hard to prove ey. That's what I'd think anyways.

posted on Mar, 4 2012 @ 03:03 PM

Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by Biliverdin

I'm not aware of assaults on the US by Iranians. Maybe it is indeed as Drunkenshrew says, and Obama meant via proxy, but that's always hard to prove ey. That's what I'd think anyways.

Either way, all things weighed into the balance, any accusation against Iran, from either the US or UK, is the pot calling the kettle black. Certainly, to date, no coups organised by Iran to overthrow the US... No screwing over of the US's natural resources by Iran... etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

If there is one thing that bugs the hell out of me, it is hypocracy.

posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 03:07 PM
Okay...a little update faction wise...this is taking things back to Britain's role in the whole business...

I have two biographies on Victor Rothschild, now for those who don't know this chap I will give a little background. In WW2 he was head of counter sabotage in SOE (Special Operations Executive), and also, vetted every little thing, gifts, mail, etc before it went to Churchill, a chemist by trade...he also, post war, worked for MI5 but had numerous contacts in MI6. For those not familiar with the British Secret Service...MI5 is kind of equivalent to the FBI, whereas MI6 is more akin to the CIA. Furthermore he knew all of the Cambridge Spy Ring (Philby, MacLean, Blunt and Burgess). They used his residences in London, and Paris (after the emancipation) during the war, to 'hang out', and in some quarters, he is believed to have been the 'Fifth Man'. He was also a close and personal friend of James Jesus Angleton of the CIA.

Post war, he was employed by MI5 under Dick White, and ran Mossad agents, following that he worked for Shell, and then under Edward Heath, the then Prime Minister, headed up a group called the 'Think Tank'...he was never, as far as is publically known, in charge of the House of Rothschild, so that should just be sidelined for the time being....

Cont'd next post..

posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 03:27 PM
From 'The Fifth Man' by Roland Perry (1994)

Firstly a little additional information...

October 1946...The lower house, the National Assembly, declared an agreement made with Soviet be null and void...

1947... An agreement was signed between the US and Iran to provide military support.

- In reaction to the above agreement, Stalin increased it's support to the Tudeh Party.

1949...Tudeh Party make a failed attempt to assassinate the Shah.

From about 1951 onwards, Victor Rothschild, begins to visit Iran as a stoppove on his frequent visits to Israel (in his capacity as a MI5 representative).

Rothschild as well as serving British interests, is representing Israel who are dependent upon Iranian Oil as suppliers to the Israeli Military. So VR, supplies information both to MI5 and Mossad about Iran.

Rothschild, according to Perry is on close terms with the Shah, and met with him personally. And also is close friends with Shapoor Reporter, an MI6 agent. Shapoor is Iranian born, but hold a British passport, and is official translator on the staff of Anthony Cuomo, the CIA man attached to the US Embassy as Political Secretary.

Reporter (such an apt name lol), has contacts across Iranian society, from politicians to Islamic religious officials...and he willingly shares info with Victor, not only about what is going on with the Shah, but also what the CIA are up to...

'There are plenty of cowboys in town, all bearing gifts and wanting to knock on the Shah's Palace door' (p205) he reports to Dick White. Further he advises that they are encouraging the Shah to oust Mossadeq...'I fear the Shah is heeding the cowboys and may do something precipitate'...he reports in May 1952. And indeed, 2 months later the Shah tries to remove Mossadeq from office.

The consequence of this failed attempt against Mossadeq, is that the Royal household is banished from Iran leaving only the pliable young Mohammed Reza in charge. Mossadeq breaks off diplomatic relations with Britain.

Now according to Perry, these events then lead to the coup, and VR, who Perry concludes is loyal to the Soviets does not partake...

posted on Mar, 5 2012 @ 03:47 PM
Next book...The Elusive Rothschild by Kenneth Rose (2003)

Now this book doesn't even mention VR's activities prior to the coup and jumps right forward to this point VR is working as Research Director for Royal Shell...

In that capacity, and Shell supposedly wishing to put something back where they have taken so much out, decide to invest in agriculture (as a humanitarian in Iran, namely in a cotton plantation...they call this venture ShellCott...

According to Rose, VR suddenly has to make friends with Shapoor Reporter, who according to Perry he had been on intimate terms with in the early '50s, and does so through a mutual friend, Marcus Sieff. Sieff who would eventually become Chairman of Marks and Spencer is at that point exporting fruit from Iran to the UK..

Reporter evidently paves the way for Shell to set up the necessary irrigation system and dam, that will enable Iran to produce cotton, a long term plan, that is only interrupted by, guess what, the 1979 revolution...

So lets look a little at Reporter...

Born in 1920 in Tehran, his father, Ardeshir Reporter, was also a prominent British intelligence officer in Iran. Educated in Westminister and Kings College, he graduated in 1939 in Political Science and Literature. In 1943 he was sent to India to set up the Radio Delhi programs being broadcasted in Persian. In 1945 he was assigned to serve in Bahrain, and after one year was sent to China.

In 1947 he was sent to Tehran to serve as secretary to the first Indian ambassador in Tehran. During the oil nationalization in Iran, he was accorded as assistant to the U.S. ambassador Loy W. Henderson for three years, during which he had a role in the 1953 military coup. As a reward, he was offered a position in the State Department and U.S. citizenship by the U.S. secretary of state for "his brilliant services to the common cause". Then he was appointed as liaison officer for Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran.

He became a Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire in 1972, shortly after acting as an intermediary in a £100 million arms sale from the United Kingdom to Iran, for which he also received £1 million from the UK Ministry of Defence.[2]

Further to that... Rose states that Reporter's father what the son of a Bombay Parsi who arrived in Iran in 1893 and found employment with the British legation, in 1920, Ardeshirji Reporter, recommended Reza Khan to the commander of British troops in Persia, General Edmund (later Lord) Ironside, who in turn encourages Reza Khan to sieze power in Iran. For this reason his son, Shapoor, is considered by Reza's son, his most trusted aide. ANd has him serve as his middle man in all commercial deals with Britain...particularly ARMS DEALS. As the above wikipedia page correctly states, he was created by Britain a Knight...what it doesn't state is that that recommendation came from Lord Carrington, then the Minister of Defence.

That is it so far, but I have succumbed and bought a couple of new books which when I have finished reading them, I will share the results from...fascinating so far though...and seemingly just as much about arms deals as it is about oil...but then, traditionally, the two do seem to go hand in hand...

posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 04:58 AM
reply to post by InfoKartel

Back to what you said in your original post in this thread...what about the Western influences on the 1979 revolution?

It seems that when Jimmy Carter became POTUS he began to put pressure on the Shah over Human Rights abuses, and the Shah, already a sick man, at that point began to get worried that he was about to lose US support. The Shah was no less afraid of Soviet incursions in Northern Iran than he had been when he was originally reinstalled by Operation AJAX, and he feared that without the arms that the US were supplying Iran with, Iran would be impotent against a large scale incursion by Soviet forces. Plus, it seems that he was only too aware of the fact that the US Military-Industrial Complex were screwing him royally.

So, Iran and Israel began negotiating a deal whereby they would take over as supplying Iran with armaments, and together they would form a pact to strengthen rule in the Middle-East by Middle-Eastern countries. Self-supporting, with revenues flowing inwards, rather than outwards to arms dealers in the UK and US. As the Shah himself stated, if he told the US that one of his tank engines was faulty, the US would offer to sell him a new tank. Whereas Israel would fix the engine. (I paraphrase, as I do not have the source immediately to hand).

In combination, Israel and Iran could have, I suppose, have brought stability to the region. But, as we all know, there is no profit in stability.

A deal was therefore struck for Israel to supply Iran, and money changed hands. Money that then was pocketed by Israel when the revolution took place. Khomeini evidently attempted to get a refund, as Israel failed to honour the agreement, but Israel stated that they would refund only to the Shah's government once they had been restored. This is supposedly still an on-going dispute. Had the deal gone ahead, or had Khomeini waited just a few more months, Israel would have, as part of the deal, supplied Iran with sufficient nuclear war heads to have represented a significant balance to US capabilities. Israel for their part quite openly admitted that without the Iranian arms money they would not have been able to invest the money that they needed to reach the level of technical expertise that they subsequently achieved. The revolution therefore, as a previous poster stated, ensured Iran's failure to flourish and become the world power that it's resources and geopolitical position dictate it should have, and placed Israel somewhat in the position that Iran vacated as the West's whipping boy in the Middle-East.

Either way, it seems, all things considered, that we now find ourselves back to that point in time. Again.

posted on Mar, 7 2012 @ 05:19 AM

Originally posted by Drunkenshrew
Not that I endorse every estimation of this website, but here is list of alleged state-sponsored terrorism which is claimed to be linked to Iran. Most of these attacks are committed by proxies like Hezbollah.

Originally posted by InfoKartel
I'm not aware of assaults on the US by Iranians. Maybe it is indeed as Drunkenshrew says, and Obama meant via proxy, but that's always hard to prove ey. That's what I'd think anyways.

This definately seems to be the case...Hezbollah was orignally set up with funds from Iran...soooo...

Anyway guys...currently reading 'The Secret War with Iran: The 30 year covert struggle for control of a rogue state' Ronen Bergman. Incredibly eye opening to say the least, and 'what a #ing mess' would be my summary so far. There is a slight bias towards Mossad, though not necessarily towards to Israeli military overall. But an amazingly indepth study of the situation, that really does seem to point at no real central planning, just a lot of jerks with jerky knees with their fingers on buttons and therefore, making a complete # hole of things by interference and more than anything else, fear. This could so easily be resolved by honest transparency and a good sit down discussion. But noone profits that way, noone gets to be king of the proverbial castle, and so they would rather send other people's children off to get blown up. And as long as there are religious fundamentalists thrown into the mix, there will always be those who are willing to give up their children for a fabricated cause as martyrs. Really, I am not sure who is worse.

Dumb-asses the lot of them.

posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 06:08 AM
reply to post by Biliverdin

Yup, correct on all accounts, in the days of the Shah, the Iranian special forces got some training in Israel. All information that isn't "wanted" in this day and age because of cognitive dissonance. Ahh well, at least some of us are awake.

posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Biliverdin
Perhaps the best testament to the global implications of Operation AJAX comes from the man who authorised it, Dwight Eisenhower.

that actually sounded pretty good.

Why would he say that after he started all that he started?

Did he have multiple personalities?

He kinda smiled like he had multiple personalities, that was kinda freaky.

posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 05:38 AM
reply to post by InfoKartel

Khomeini is fascinating. He reminds me a lot of Hitler, not in the obvious ways, but in his ability to identify the lowest common denominator that enabled him to unite the various factions in popular support. Many of his more intellectual supporters were of the opinion that some of the tapes that he sent into Iran were black propaganda, but have since had to admit, after analysis, that they were in fact him, but due to their content at the time, they thought it was part of a smear campaign, so unlike the spiritual mystic that they had known. He definately used mass communication techniques developed under Nazism in order to propagate himself as the saviour of Iran from the Westernised Christ mythology. And, another similarity is the way in which those around him are reported to have 'dealt' with him. He couldn't be rationalised with, he couldn't be persauded with facts or by appeals, or even approached directly for a decision, if they wanted him to act in a certain manner, they had to wind him up, get him empassioned and angry about something, and then feed him the information that they wanted him to speak of or decide upon. This is very much a Hitlerism, and entirely inline with how Hess used to prepare Hitler for his 'performances' in front of his devoted public (and much of the reason why Hitler didn't appear in front of that public post-Hess's flight) and how, Goebbels, Goering et al, had to play him in order to get him to commit his authority to anything.

But, if Khomeini was that way inclined, and merely a puppet for someone elses agenda, I cannot for the life of me find the information required to identify his 'handlers'. I doubt, that like Hitler, he had masters as such, but someone must have been firing him up in the early days at least, a Rudolf Hess or Dietrich Eckart type character, and there is anecdotal comments on how once he was in power to get decisions out of him those around him would have to use the 'wind up' technique, but there is a missing link somewhere which remains beyond sight. Very interesting though.

posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 07:42 PM
reply to post by Biliverdin

That is some very intruiging information right there. Thanks for that

posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 04:19 PM
This is something from the book that I am reading (Secret War with Iran)...and I can't get past it, I keep re-reading it, and I am not entirely sure why...

In 1986 Ron Arad, an Israeli navigator and his pilot on a bombing mission suffered a malfunction and had to parachute out of the F4 they were a series of subsequent mishaps, Arad was left behind by rescuers and subsequently taken hostage by moderate militias...

Fast forward to 1992, and Israel is still trying to negotiate Arad's release. Iran then claims that they will release Arad, but only in exchange for four Iranians that disappeared in Beirut in 1982. Sayed Mohsen Mousawi,who was integral to the establishment of Hezbollah and three aides,Taghii Rastegar Moghadam, Kazem Ahkavan and Ahmad Motovaselian. Israel claimed they didn't have the men. Iranian Ambassador to Beirut Homayoun ALizade, counter claimed that they were alive and in an Israeli jail. Israel again denied it...and so on and so forth.

In the end, Mossad were ordered to investigate the disappearances of the four men, and found that they had been stopped at a checkpoint manned by Phalange militia on the road between Jounieh and Beirut. They were then, according to Mossad sources, placed in two cars. According to the Phalange guards that travelled with them, they were very violently protesting the illegality of their arrest, and that they had full diplomatic immunity. Either way, and with graphic details, the Phalange admitted that all four men had died either under interrogation or immediately subsequent to interrogation.

Despite, written and sworn testimony from Phalange, the Iranians still refused to believe that the men were not being held by the Israelis and countered every move to resolve the matter to that effect. Arad seems unimportant. It simply seems as though Iran wanted the matter to stay up in the air for one reason or another. The Phalange contact was offered 100,000 dollars to change his testimony, which he refused oddly enough.

Just odd in so many ways...hence why I can't quite move past it. And I can't find any supplementary information about any of the players...

So thought I'd put it you never know.

posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 03:41 PM
There is some information about Arad...

Lieutenant Colonel Ron Arad (Hebrew: רון ארד‎) (born 5 May 1958, presumed dead), was an Israeli Air Force weapon systems officer (WSO) who is officially classified as missing in action since October 1986, but is widely presumed dead. Arad was lost on a mission over Lebanon, captured by Shiite group Amal and was later handed over to the Hezbollah.[1]

Arad was brought to Beirut and held by the then head of security of Amal, Mustafa Dirani. The leader of Amal, Nabih Berri, announced that he was holding Arad, and proposed an exchange for Shiite and Lebanese prisoners held in Israel.

In 1987, three letters in Arad's handwriting and two photos of a bearded Arad were received, proving Arad was alive. The Israeli government negotiated for his release, but talks failed in 1988. After this time, credible information about Arad has been hard to discover, though unsubstantiated claims of new information are made regularly.

To gain further insight on his whereabouts, Israeli commandos kidnapped Hezbollah member Abdel Karim Obeid in 1989, and Mustafa Dirani in 1994.[2] The Israeli government claimed they were being held in order to find out information about Arad. During his interrogation by military officers, Dirani reportedly disclosed that on 4 May 1988, Arad had been turned over first to a Hezbollah unit and then to Iranian Revolutionary Guards who were in Lebanon at the time aiding Hezbollah guerrillas, where he may have been taken to Iran. But neither Iran nor any guerrilla group ever offered any useful information about his fate. Karim-Obeid and Dirani were released in 2004 as part of a prisoner swap. No information on Arad's fate was released after the swap.
It seems almost certain that Arad was killed, or died, sometime in 1988. Versions of how, when and where he died vary and cloud an already highly ambiguous situation. As terrible as it is for Arad’s family, this incident seems to me the risk that any member of the armed forces would take when on such a mission. He was afterall intent on bombing PLO targets and an enemy combatant. However, perhaps the element that is worth noting is that he was at that time on National Service, and as such, it was not his choice, so much as his obligation to serve.

I have to admit that on further reading that it is the kidnap of the four Iranian Diplomats that interests me more, and typically I have struggled to find any further information. In contrast to Arad, who’s case is fairly well detailed on wikipedia, the four Iranians. The following two sentences is the sum total of information for all four of the Iranian diplomats...

Seyed Mohsen Mousavi is one of the four Iranian diplomats that was reportedly kidnapped at an inspection point for the Lebanese Forces in north Lebanon on 4 July 1982. His fate was never determined and it is presumed he is dead.
And there is little more on the event itself...

During the invasion of Lebanon on July 4, 1982, four Iranian diplomats were reportedly kidnapped by militiamen and Israeli forces at an inspection point for the Lebanese Forces in north Lebanon. Their fate was never determined and it is presumed they are dead.

The reported missing diplomats are:

• Ahmad Motevaselian
• Seyed Mohsen Mousavi
• Taghi Rastegar Moghadam
• Kazem Akhavan

Iran called on the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) to clarify the whereabouts of four Iranian diplomats kidnapped in Lebanon.

Israel has said it does not know what happened to the diplomats and it is believed that they were executed and buried at a site where construction later obliterated their graves. [1]
A linked article from 2004 sheds a little more light, though not much...

The Iranian foreign minister, Kamal Kharazi, arrived yesterday in Beirut accompanied by families of four Iranian diplomats missing since 1982, that Tehran thinks are being held in Israel.

Upon his arrival at Beirut's airport, Kharazi said that the main aim of his visit is to follow up the file of the four Iranians who were kidnapped in Lebanon some 22 years ago in a Christian controlled area by a Christian organization linked to Israel.

Kharazi stressed that he has information that the four Iranians were taken to Israel. He added "we do hope after the exchange operation of prisoners, with Israel to release large number of Lebanese and Palestinians and other detainees from other nationalities, that the turn of the Iranians will come soon." For its part, the Iranian news agency quoted the Lebanese minister of state for administrative development, Karim Baqradouni, saying that the Lebanese have sensitive information concerning the fate of the Iranian diplomats and they will convey this information to Kharazai.

The Lebanese minister who presides over the Phanalagists party refused to disclose the nature of these information which he said are top secret, and relate to the second phase of talks and contacts between Lebanon and Israel over the exchange of prisoners.

Baqradouni did not explain whether the Iranian diplomats are dead or alive. He added "I do hope that the second round of talks on the exchange of prisoners will permit the disclosure of the fate of the four kidnapped diplomats, definitely." During his two- day visit to Lebanon, Kharazi will be meeting with the Lebanese leaders and the secretary general of the Lebanese Hizbullah party, Sheikh Hassan Nasrullah.

The four diplomats Iran seeks to know their fate are the charge de affairs in Beirut, Mohsin Mousawi; the diplomat Taqi Rastghar, the military attache Ahmad Mtuselyan,and photographer Irena Kazem Akhfan.

While Arad could be held on a semi-legitimate basis as a POW, diplomatic immunity should have prevented the detention of the Iranians. Of course, in the Middle-East rules seemingly don’t apply even at the best of times, so that is a moot point, and it is a waste of time arguing justification. According to all on-line sources however Israel claims no knowledge of the whereabouts of the Iranians or their fate, however in the book, The Secret War with Iran, it is laid out fairly clearly that Israel launched an investigation and the outcome of that investigation was the four Iranian diplomats were detained and subsequently killed while in the custody of Phalange militia. So who are ‘Phalange’...?

The Lebanese Phalanges (Arabic: حزب الكتائب اللبنانية, Hezb al-Kata’eb al-Loubnaniyya), better known in English as the Phalange (Arabic: Kata'eb), is a traditional right-wing political-paramilitary organization. Although it is officially secular, it is mainly supported by Maronite Christians. The party played a major role in the Lebanese War (1975–90). In decline in the late 1980s and 1990s, the party slowly re-emerged since the early 2000s. It is now part of the March 14 Alliance, opposed to the March 8 Alliance, led by Hezbollah, and the Free Patriotic Movement.
Although Israel claims to have had no knowledge of the activities of the Phalanges actions in regard to the Iranian diplomats, the more that I read about the activities of this group, the less likely that that assertion seems...

The Sabra and Shatila massacre took place in the Sabra and Shatila Palestinian refugee camps in Beirut, Lebanon between September 16 and September 18, 1982, during the Lebanese civil war. Palestinian and Lebanese civilians were massacred in the camps by Christian Lebanese Phalangists while the camp was surrounded by the Israel Defense Force. In that period of time, Israel was at war with the PLO in Lebanon. Israeli forces occupied Beirut, controlled the entrances to the refugee camps of Palestinians and controlled the entrance to the city. The massacre was seen as a retaliation for the assassination of Bachir Gemayel, the leader of the Lebanese Kataeb Party. It is generally agreed that the killers were "the Young Men", a gang recruited by Elie Hobeika, the Lebanese Forces intelligence chief, from men who had been expelled from the Lebanese Forces for insubordination or criminal activities. [2]

The exact number of victims is disputed, from 700–800 to 3,500 (depending on the source).
Just a couple of months after taking the Iranian’s into custody, the Phalange were permitted, according to most sources, on the personal authority of Ariel Sharon, to enter the refugee camps to ‘root out’ terrorists. The result was a carnage, women and girls were raped and mutilated before being murdered and cast in heaps. Young boys were castrated and in some case scalped. All while Israeli troops stood outside and did nothing. At one stage they sent out flares into the night sky to illuminate the camp, so that the Phalange militia could better do their ‘job’.

In short it seems that Iran has a fair case in calling Israel to account for the kidnapping of four of it’s diplomats, since only two months later those responsible for the kidnapping were doing the dirty work for Israel in leading a massacre against innocent Palestinian refugees.

One begins to understand, to some extent, the need for a well financed group such as Hezbollah, as a counterbalance. Hezbollah full name is the Organization of the Oppressed on Earth, and in many ways, I can’t disagree with them on that, they are, the people of Islam, oppressed from all sides. Economically, ideologically and environmentally. At no time since the first world war have they been allowed the self-determination that they were promised for their support in pushing out the Ottomans. At no time has anyone defended their rights to their territories. And though I do not agree that the end justifies the means, I can see that they are acting in self-defence. They are certainly not behaving in ways any worse than their oppressors. And more particularly, when you compare the actions of the Hezbollah etc. with the activities of a group such as Phalange, how can one be classed as a terrorist organisation, and the other not? Obviously that depends on who gives the orders, or who the paymaster is rather. Since Iran is by western definitions a ‘rogue state’, then it’s use of paramilitaries constitutes terrorism. Israel on the otherhand, as the ‘long arm of the west’ in the Middle East, can do, and fund, as it pleases.

My original summary of the situation remains unchanged...what a #ing mess!

posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:27 AM
Back to Ron 1992 in order to try to ascertain the whereabouts of Arab, Israel decided to kidnap Mustafa Dirani.

Mustafa Dirani was a member and held position of "the head of security" of the Amal movement, a Shi'a militia in Lebanon associated with Syria. In 1987 he started contacts with pro-Iran sources, and eventually he created contacts between them and the rest of the leadership of Amal. He was expelled from Amal and he established his own organization, the "Believing Resistance".

Abducted by Israeli commandos in 1994, he was held in administrative detention as a bargaining chip in exchange for Israeli servicemen held by Hezbollah. At the time, Israeli forces were in control of the southern Lebanon security buffer, in order to prevent the region from being used as a launching ground on attacks on Israel's Galilee region.

Mustafa Dirani was abducted from his home in Lebanon by Israeli commandos on the day of the Muslim festival of Eid ul-Adha. Israel believed that Dirani had exclusive knowledge to the whereabouts of Israel Air Force pilot Ron Arad, who was captured by Dirani's armed men in 1986, and has been unheard of since then. During his interrogation by military officers, Dirani reportedly disclosed that Arad had been turned over first to a Hezbollah militia unit and then to Iranian Revolutionary Guards, who were in Lebanon at the time aiding Hezbollah guerrillas. But neither Iran nor any guerrilla group has ever offered any useful information about his fate. Allegedly, Dirani received $300,000 for transferring Ron Arad to the Iranians.

Dirani alleges that he was sodomized and tortured by his Israeli captors. He testified in an Israeli court to this abuse. These allegations were reported by the Associated Press, Al Jazeera, and the Jerusalem Post. Initially the International Red Cross was denied permission to see Dirani, but a court order forced Israeli prison authorities to comply with legal rules.

In January 2004, in a German-mediated prisoner swap, Dirani along with 22 other Lebanese detainees, about 400 Palestinians, and 12 Israeli-Arab prisoners was released in exchange for the bodies of three Israeli soldiers and Israeli businessman and ex-Israeli soldier Elchanan Tannenbaum.

Though briefly alluded to in the wikipedia article, Dirani was subjected to the most inhumane and prolonged tortures as part of his interrogation. The full details are harrowing, both from the perspective of Dirani himself, but also the testimony of Israeli soldiers that bore witness. He was kept either naked for these interrogations, or sometimes, for added humilation he was made to wear a diaper and kept in a soiled state for days at a time. During his 'interrogation' he was repeatedly threatened with rape, and eventually that threat was carried out, both by a member of the Israeli personnel, and by use of a baton. Medical examination immediately following his release confirmed that the injuries and lacerations that he sustained were consistent with such abuse.

Dirani, according to both his own testimony, and those of Mossad, co-operated fully from the outset with his captors. He gave them the information that they requested and according to all those sources, it was unnecessary to escalate the interrogation to torture. It is clear that the torture was motivated purely upon the desire to humiliate Dirani. All the information that he gave was proven to be truthful and was confirmed as such by Mossad. There was never at any time during his incarceration any need to torture him, it did not lead to lives being saved. No excuse, other than pure malevolence on the part of the Israelis. But all's fair in love and war, right?

posted on Jun, 22 2012 @ 05:13 AM
Looking at it from another angle...currently reading 'Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam' by Mark Curtis.

Highly illuminating so far! Sheds a clearer light on what impact, in the long term, that divide and rule foreign policy has had on the wider world, not to mention how a blind-eye can be turned to mass atrocities so long as the puppet state is a) inflicting them within their own domain, and b) it serves the economic interests of the puppeteer. We of course know all this, but I do like to see how that played out in the boardrooms and diplomatic circles.

This is a good quote that demonstrates the short-sighted, self-interest that led to the current state of affairs.

'The truth plainly is that the existence side by side of these hostile creeds is one of the strong points in our political position in India. The better clashes of Mohammedans are already a source to us of strength and not of weakness...They constitute a small but energetic minority of the population whose political interest is identical to our.' Sir John Strachey, 1888

Similarly...Lord Curzon instructing the governor general that he...

'should so plan the educational textbooks that the differences between community and community are further strengthened...If we could break educated Indians into two sections holding widely different views, we should, by such a division, strengthen our position against the subtle and continuous attack which the spread of education make upon our system of government.'

Good book!

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