Santorum telling ridiculous lies about my country

reply to post by roadtoad

The 'santorum euthenasia freakout' lie is about as bad as it gets. So is the 'death panels freakout' lie.

This is just your opinion. The Terri Schiavo euthanasia was very real and many liberals signed on to it and it set a precedent. There were stories of hospital patients being euthanized during the Katrina crisis because of not having electrical facilites on or enough hospital staff to stay with them as they could not be moved. Many proponents of Obamacare refuse to acknowledge that this wicked piece of legislation gives government bureaucrats way too much involvement in the private decisions of terminally ill patients(aka the Death Panels).
Amazingly, liberals refuse to acknowledge their own party's history of euthanasia and eugenics but today they seem to revel in allowing it in socialized medicine.

And if nothing else, you might want to admit that Obama himself said his own grandmother should really not have a hip replacement as she was much too old, but he generously paid for it out of his own pocket anway, generous Marxist that he is.

Take a dose of reality, people. I worked as a Certified Nurse Aide here in the good old USA for a couple of years around 1992-1994. We have DNR's in this country and have for years; they are requested by the patients. They post the DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) orders right on the patients' doors, to make sure if there is a DNR in place, nobody runs in and begins heroic measures if a patient starts to pass on. To be honest, often, at that point, it is difficult to even determine if a person who is close to passing is still with us or not. The breathing is so shallow as to be almost non-existant, the heartbeat is weak and frequently hard to detect. Get a grip.

And to the person who was horrified about Hurricane Katrina victims possibly being euthanased because they could not be moved... That may or may not be true, I have never heard that rumor before. But I can tell you this - if I was a patient who was so sick that I could not be moved, and I was dependent on life support, you bet your sweet bippy I would rather be euthanised than to be LEFT TO DIE with no food, water, electricity and entirely unable to do anything to help myself. Which do you suppose would be a more agonizing way to go?

I have personally seen someone die of dehydration because she had stomach cancer and most of it had been removed and she could not take food or drink and decided to go into Hospice. In Hospice, they will give medication to help you be comfortable, but they will not prolong life. The idea is that you are dying, so you should be able to die in as much comfort and dignity as possible. So, no IV drips to provide hydration, since she could not take it in naturally, on her own. Believe me, it was a painful death to witness, and extremely painful for my relative, much more drawn out and exhausting than anybody expected. They thought it would be less than a week, but it was closer to three weeks. In this particular case, I was a family member, not a care provider. The family all agreed, when it was over, that if consented euthanasia had been an option, in this country, it would have been far preferable. And most of the family still are and were then Republicans, if that makes any difference.

reply to post by gwynnhwyfar


If you have worked in a medical setting then I assume you know the difference between a DNR order, and euthanasia?

reply to post by BellaSabre

Clearly. What is your point?

reply to post by SaturnFX

I think its high time the republicans stop using parody news sources for their understanding of the world

wnd is not news, its noise..its batboy and lobstergirl but for politics (arguably less credible than the examiner come to think of it).

Doesn't Rupert Murdoch own WND? If that is so...then it all makes sense.

reply to post by SergeantTrammelant


OK, as much as I can't stand the GOP candidates (Except Ron Paul - LOVE HIM!) Santorum is correct in his statements... almost. They carry medical cards that state "Do not euthanize me". Like you, I did some simply web searches on Google. Here's what I got (Pretty old news actually):

lastlovesiege.wordpress.com...
www.breakpoint.org...
www.wrtl.org...
www.nevadalife.org...

www.google.com...:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

reply to post by SergeantTrammelant

I did a search on the internet and it does not appear to even exist.

You didn't look hard enough. I've heard about this long before Santorum ever brought it up.

Here's the top google reply

www.terrisfight.org...

I really think the GOP felt like they had to change course because they new Gingrich and Romney were losing support and would have a hard time beating Obama. Now they're putting their weight behind Santorum and hoping he can beat Obama. This guys an idiot, just let him keep talking and he'll be in the same boat as Gingrich and Romney. If the GOP had any clue, they would have backed Paul. Unfortunately the three that they're supporting are all losers.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I'm not understanding your reply. I was simply pointing out that it's poor strategy to run a candidate who is guaranteed to lose Pennsylvania without even trying.

As for assuming I'm a liberal -- let's leave the labels at home, alright?

reply to post by gwynnhwyfar


Yah that was me thank you very much and I just took note of it happening. Just because you hadn't heard of it doesn't make it untrue. It was a huge story, so you having nursing experience doesn't make you immune to hearing news stories.

So for your sake since you are rebutting me without research, I just found an article about it

NEW ORLEANS, Aug. 31, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A doctor has admitted that he gave orders for a lethal dose of medication to be administered to a patient under his care during the hurricane Katrina disaster in 2005 - a decision that he says he does not regret having made.

Dr. Ewing Cook said that as staff at Memorial Medical Center in New Orleans were struggling to evacuate patients from the flooded building, he gave the order to give Jannie Burgess, 79, who was dying of uterine cancer and kidney failure, a dose of morphine that he knew would kill her.

"Do you mind just increasing the morphine and giving her enough until she goes?" Cook said he asked the patient's nurse, and then wrote "Pronounced dead at" on the patient's chart and left it blank to be filled in later.

"If you don't think that by giving a person a lot of morphine you're not prematurely sending them to their grave, then you're a very naëve doctor," Cook said.

and then there's this

Dr. Anna Pou, a surgeon who specializes in working with cancer patients, and nurses Cheri Landry and Lori Budo, who had admitted to administering lethal doses of medication to patients during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, were offered immunity from prosecution by Attorney General Foti, before testifying to a Grand Jury that four patients died after being administered what Foti called a "lethal cocktail" of drugs.

However, court documents asserted that witnesses had testified that Dr. Pou and the two nurses took syringes full of drugs to a ward for the chronically-ill and injected four patients. Thirty-four patients died in Memorial Medical Center following the Katrina disaster, more than in any comparable-sized hospital in the drowned city.

The ProPublica report cites University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Arthur Caplan, who, after reviewing the records of the patients who died and the coroner's report, concluded that nine patients were euthanized, and that the way the drugs were given was "not consistent with the ethical standards of palliative care that prevail in the United States."

www.lifesitenews.com...

another article for backup in case you wanted to make out the first one to be biased unfairly

articles.cnn.com...:US
www.wnd.com...


A thread on it at ATS
www.abovetopsecret.com...

An article in New Orleans about 13 hospitals under investigation

www.northcountrygazette.org...

DNR is not the same thing as administering a lethal dose of morphine and you know that.

Originally posted by Danbones
well, its a nice change from all the vote fraud stories that give him wins in the primaries...
say...
isn't this turkey PRO WAR?

actually he is a eugenecist ..if you commit suicide he can't have the fun of killing your a$$..
..to save you....
from going to heaven, which as a christian he believes is the most blissfull thing in the great all of creation...

He's not Christian, He's Catholic. Yes. There is a difference.

This obvious blooper hasn't bitten him in a debate yet? To say something that blatantly untrue as a presidential hopeful is just incredibly stupid and in my mind automatically disqualifies him from representing his country based simply on the fact he is an utter nincompoop.

reply to post by gwynnhwyfar


As far as dying in comfort and dignity, that was not the case for Terri Schiavo. All food and water was withdrawn from her and she died a brutal death of dehydration that lasted longer than 7 days.

reply to post by HIWATT


Were you implying that Catholics are not Christian? Otherwise I'm not really sure what your point was? Or did you really mean that Catholic is a subset of Christian? Catholics have the highest adherence to true early Christianity than the other denominations except for the Essenes/Nazarenes.

But then Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden are also "Catholics" and I'm not certain either of them are really "Christian", and certainly their stance on abortion has won them no admiration from the Church.

Santi is a scumbag you have no worries about him becoming president, trust me on this!

Originally posted by lokdog
Santi is a scumbag you have no worries about him becoming president, trust me on this!

You're saying being a scumbag automatically disqaulifies you from being president?

Sir, I beg to differ.

reply to post by SergeantTrammelant


I always felt that watching far right republicans spew their vitriol,. was sort of like watching a teacher tell the story of little red riding hood to a kindergarten class. The kids eyes get very big and they get anxious, but any adults in the room know its just a story. The "kids in the room" in this case are that hardcore 23 percent that votes republican ahead of anything, including common sense. When they spout this nonsense, its not meant for anyone with the intelligence to see through it. Its for that small part of the base who has been hoodwinked for 30 years, and believes whatever they are told hook, line and sinker. The amazing thing is that these people have not only been lied to, but have been brainwashed into vehement opposition to their own best interests.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0

Originally posted by lokdog
Santi is a scumbag you have no worries about him becoming president, trust me on this!

You're saying being a scumbag automatically disqaulifies you from being president?

Sir, I beg to differ.

edit on 20-2-2012 by v1rtu0s0 because: (no reason given)

No but not being a scumbag does

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by gwynnhwyfar

 

Yah that was me thank you very much and I just took note of it happening. Just because you hadn't heard of it doesn't make it untrue. It was a huge story, so you having nursing experience doesn't make you immune to hearing news stories.

So for your sake since you are rebutting me without research, I just found an article about it

NEW ORLEANS, Aug. 31, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A doctor has admitted that he gave orders for a lethal dose of medication to be administered to a patient under his care during the hurricane Katrina disaster in 2005 - a decision that he says he does not regret having made.

Dr. Ewing Cook said that as staff at Memorial Medical Center in New Orleans were struggling to evacuate patients from the flooded building, he gave the order to give Jannie Burgess, 79, who was dying of uterine cancer and kidney failure, a dose of morphine that he knew would kill her.

"Do you mind just increasing the morphine and giving her enough until she goes?" Cook said he asked the patient's nurse, and then wrote "Pronounced dead at" on the patient's chart and left it blank to be filled in later.

"If you don't think that by giving a person a lot of morphine you're not prematurely sending them to their grave, then you're a very naëve doctor," Cook said.

and then there's this

Dr. Anna Pou, a surgeon who specializes in working with cancer patients, and nurses Cheri Landry and Lori Budo, who had admitted to administering lethal doses of medication to patients during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina, were offered immunity from prosecution by Attorney General Foti, before testifying to a Grand Jury that four patients died after being administered what Foti called a "lethal cocktail" of drugs.

However, court documents asserted that witnesses had testified that Dr. Pou and the two nurses took syringes full of drugs to a ward for the chronically-ill and injected four patients. Thirty-four patients died in Memorial Medical Center following the Katrina disaster, more than in any comparable-sized hospital in the drowned city.

The ProPublica report cites University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Arthur Caplan, who, after reviewing the records of the patients who died and the coroner's report, concluded that nine patients were euthanized, and that the way the drugs were given was "not consistent with the ethical standards of palliative care that prevail in the United States."

www.lifesitenews.com...

another article for backup in case you wanted to make out the first one to be biased unfairly

articles.cnn.com...:US
www.wnd.com...


A thread on it at ATS
www.abovetopsecret.com...

An article in New Orleans about 13 hospitals under investigation

www.northcountrygazette.org...

DNR is not the same thing as administering a lethal dose of morphine and you know that.

edit on 20-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

I am afraid you entirely missed my point. I did not rebut you, at all. I simply said I had not heard of it previously.

If true, as your research would suggest it probably is, then I am afraid my sympathies lie firmly on the side of those who provided the euthanasia to the patients in their care who had no other means of escape.

I also provided a personal story of my experience with a family member's passing of dehydration, as a result of stomach cancer. This was meant to explain why I feel euthanasia would have been preferable to leaving patients to die completely alone and vulnerable, under the most inhumane circumstances, alone, abandoned, in the Hurricane Katrina disaster situation.

Be as outraged as you wanna be at my opinion. It is my own, and I have my own very good reasons to feel the way I do. If you disagree, that is your business. I am simply furthering the discussion here on ATS.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
Anyone with a half a brain will realize what he's saying isn't true.I'm American and even I know what the policy is on that in the netherlands.The guy's an idiot and it's really starting to show the more he talks.

Dude definitely doesn't strike me as the most intelligent individual but a lot of times these kinda ridiculous statements come out of a politicians mouth I have to wonder how much of it is them and how much of it is them playing to their corporate masters. If one is paid highly enough one is expected to say certain things on TV no matter how painful they may be to your own personal beliefs.

But then again he may really be just that dumb, anything is possible.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by gwynnhwyfar

 

As far as dying in comfort and dignity, that was not the case for Terri Schiavo. All food and water was withdrawn from her and she died a brutal death of dehydration that lasted longer than 7 days.

Well, yes, I am afraid you are helping me explain my own point here. My point being that people turn to Hospice regularly in our country, because it is supposed to provide as much comfort and dignity as possible, during the dying process. However, the passing is not necessarily anywhere near as peacefull and painless as that sounds. In my opinion, that is because Hospice will only offer the things the person can naturally manage. Only comfort, not anything life-prolonging. So that means, if your disease, as my relative's stomach cancer did, mean that you are unable to eat, you will not be fed, not provided IV or injected meal suppliments because you would only be given food or water if you could physically swallow it. If you can not swallow and ingest liquids, as my relative could not, then you will not be provided water or IV liquids. The goal is to allow you to die, not to prolong your life. People don't realize this. It can be painful, that is why they do provide medications, as much as you request. But when one is semi-conscious, one is not always capable of requesting anything, let alone pain meds or water or anything else. So people in our country do die in pain, sad as it is to imagine.

Incidentally, I am not trying to slam Hospice. Their credo is valuable and they do much wonderful work! I am simply trying to make the point that the US is not immune to death and that we do not and should not imagine that we are morally "better than" countries which offer a humane, consented euthanasia option to their citizens. Point being, we too offer options to our citizens.

Of course, the entire discussion is secondary to the fact that the OP states their folks don't run around carrying, "Please do not euthanase me" cards in their wallet, just as most of our folks do not run around carrying "Please Resuscitate" or "Please do NOT Resuscitate" cards in our wallets, most of the time, and yet, DNR is a legal preference one can choose for ones-self.

Hospice is an option in our very own country (US) that citizens who are dying can choose, which will allow them to die without taking any means to prolong or postpone their death.