NYPD murders unarmed teen in Grandmothers home

reply to post by Xcathdra




Yes. I agree to all of that, but hypothetically, what if the officer drew first, for no reason, he identified himself, but was out of uniform, and the husband drew and fired lethally? The husband perceived a clear mortal threat, and would have been justified in his use of deadly force, but apparently the deputy also perceived a threat after the shove, although not a mortal threat.

Do you really think there would be any chance whatsoever of the civilian not facing at least 2nd degree murder and being convicted?

I'm only speaking hypothetically, because this is where the fear and hatred of police stems from. Every cop I know is a good cop, and a great person. BUT, I'm fully aware of the danger they all pose, because they are somewhat above the law. They do get away with bullying, and they do get away with one-sided use of force. There are plenty of very good reasons for the average person to be very skeptical and wary of police officers. It is like sleeping with a Cobra in your house. He's always been nice up until today, but it only takes one strike to ruin everything.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Good questions.. The answers will be incumbent on IL law (or the Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois as I refer to it).

Using your hypothetical, the officer identified himself. Logic and common sense states that if a person is going to draw a gun to shoot you, they aren't going to take the extra time of yelling they are a police officer at the individual (its not out of the realm of possibility but still, how many incidents have you heard of where that occurred in this type of scenario?).

I am a bit confused on the drew for no reason part. Absent a justifiable reason, there is no reason to draw a weapon and randomly point it at a person. In my stat it would be unlawful use of a weapon and armed criminal action. Since Illinois is more strict, I would imagine it wouldn't fly there either.

IF I had to investigate that scenario, where he identifies himself as police and pulls a gun for no reason and points it at the husband / wife for no reason, and the husband draws his gun and shoots, killing the officer, my report would reflect those facts. I would make an initial arrest of the husband and submit my PC to the PA for them to decide if the husband should face charges or if his actions were justified. The arrested person and his lawyer will argue why the person should not be in jail pending charges, and if its looking like its justified usually the PA will support the motion.

Its up to the PA to decide if the mitigating circumstances that resulted in the use of deadly force crossed the established threshold of reasonable force.

If it did its ruled as a justified homicide (self defense / defense of others).
If it didn't the person is charged and the state must prove their case.

However, if im not mistaken Illinois is a duty to retreat state. If a person can retreat safely then they must. If they engage the situation they could be charged (and for the record i'm not a fan of duty to retreat).

Even if the officer recognized the husband as a wanted person for being a serial killer, if there is no immediate threat then the officer should radio for uniformed officers and observe the situation. Engaging a person in a walmart store is just bad joo joo all around.