Why the schools are failing in the U.S.

There are 3 reasons that schools are failing and the kids these days are stupid:

1. They're teaching to the tests rather than actually educating. Their funding and jobs depend upon a set amount of kids passing random tests, and so you can hardly blame them for doing this. These kids remember what they have to in order to pass a test and then forget it. And can you blame them? Because they've been told that the only thing that matters is the test.

2. Look at these graduation requirements: Tennessee graduation requirements And that's Tennessee, folks. They spend so much time on this advanced junk that most of them will never use that the basics completely atrophy. On top of that, they know they're not going to use it, so they just tune out the stuff that they will need right along with the stuff that they won't.

3. The kids and the parents. Despite what everybody seems to want to think, a teenager is still just a kid. Even an 18 year old still needs some parental involvement, let alone a 15 year old. Add onto this that some of these kids are spoiled rotten, a system that seems to do nothing but defend these little brats and punish their victims, and you've got a regular mess.

This isn't a problem that can be blamed on one spot or another. It's a giant mess all the way around, and the problem has many root causes.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
There are 3 reasons that schools are failing and the kids these days are stupid:

1. They're teaching to the tests rather than actually educating. Their funding and jobs depend upon a set amount of kids passing random tests, and so you can hardly blame them for doing this. These kids remember what they have to in order to pass a test and then forget it. And can you blame them? Because they've been told that the only thing that matters is the test.

2. Look at these graduation requirements: Tennessee graduation requirements And that's Tennessee, folks. They spend so much time on this advanced junk that most of them will never use that the basics completely atrophy. On top of that, they know they're not going to use it, so they just tune out the stuff that they will need right along with the stuff that they won't.

3. The kids and the parents. Despite what everybody seems to want to think, a teenager is still just a kid. Even an 18 year old still needs some parental involvement, let alone a 15 year old. Add onto this that some of these kids are spoiled rotten, a system that seems to do nothing but defend these little brats and punish their victims, and you've got a regular mess.

This isn't a problem that can be blamed on one spot or another. It's a giant mess all the way around, and the problem has many root causes.

I'm a teenager myself, and I agree completely with what you've said.

We study to pass a test, and the second it's turned in, the majority forget the information. I think a big issue is with how discipline works within the school system as well. They'll gripe and complain about chewing gum, yet there are students who are consistently disruptive that get nothing more than a slap on the wrist (and not even a literal slap on the wrist, as that's illegal).

I don't care if you chew gum, just let me be able to hear the damn teacher. It was so bad at my old High School, I actually had to go on independent studies, and since then I've been able to work so much more efficiently.

Parents need to do their job and quit expecting the school to act as their child's parent, the school needs to reinforce discipline against the real issues (the real problemed students), and teachers need to not be afraid to put their foot down.

Maybe in a perfect world..

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


Bring back Disicpline in the schools, from pre-school up.
Teachers spend so much time trying to maintain control, theres no time for teaching.

Schools today are just Day Care with a Theme.

You have to remember that half of the kids are below average!

Put them in a different track so they don't waste the time of the top 50%

Just my opinion.

parental involvement.

my son was slipping, now we spend about 30 minutes a day together working on it, and he responded right away.

I'm in touch with his teacher about twice a month

his sister spoiled me, a natural student

this one, I gotta stay on top of

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


I can tell you the *REAL* reason kids in the U.S. aren't getting a decent education anymore. I grew up in an area that had great schooling, great teachers, where all students spoke the same language.

When all students speak the same language it is easier to educate them.

When half the students speak a different language, and the teachers are not taught in this 2nd language, both groups of students suffer. Both groups get a 2nd rate education.

I've seen this personally. 1 town over, 2 towns over 3 towns over. The education system will be radically affected when one group is given less time, and the other language takes prominence.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

 

Bring back Disicpline in the schools, from pre-school up.
Teachers spend so much time trying to maintain control, theres no time for teaching.

Schools today are just Day Care with a Theme.

You make an incredibly good point. When the teacher has to verbally fight students and can't get a word in edge wise, there's an issue. I love cool teachers, but they never get the respect most of them deserve. You give the majority of students an inch and they'll take a mile.

Then again, I seriously don't think it's always the student's fault. I had a teacher that was so social it was inappropriate with the students. She'd add them on Facebook, talk to the girls about other boys, and spread rumors just as the High School students would. This female teacher would make numerous sexual jokes and comments, to and about me, to the point in which I reported her to the district for harassment.

She got a warning. Just a warning. Had it been a male teacher making sexually explicit comments to a female student, that male teacher would have been fired and arrested. I'm saying this because I know this isn't the only case of it, how can the school expect students to behave in a disciplinary manner when some teachers themselves lack it?

It's overall just stupidity from every angle.

You are half right.

It's nothing new that kids learn what is needed to pass a test. I did this 30 plus years ago also. I was full aware that I could retain whatever was needed to pass a test if I just studied hard a day in advance, and was fully aware I'd forget it not long after. And I remember thinking this from back then.

The schools have lost something with this new teaching to pass the state exams. There is much less discussion and free thinking because of this test passing agenda.

The parents are mostly to blame. My husband and I, personally, make an effort to talk about the world, higher concepts, sciences, math, history,politics...you get where I'm going, to enhance their minds, daily. And it works. We did not set out thinking this was what we had to do, but it became clear over the years that it was the only way to make our kids smarter than the average kid, it also made them more thoughtful, and it is proving to be making them leaders also. Talk, talk, talk, it works, it might drive them crazy sometimes, but they will appreciate it in the long run.

I am so glad to hear from a teen with his head screwed on straight. Should be the norm, yet now you are the exception.

The schools aren't "failing". They're doing exactly what they were designed to do. If anything, the public school system (at least in the United States, which is all I can speak to) represents a case study in successful social engineering.

Educated people, capable of critical thinking, threaten established power. That power, of course, doesn't want that. So you're not going to get anything else until you take your kids out of that power structure. And then you'll be demonized for doing it.

The system is so transparent, it would be laughable if it wasn't so insulting.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
There are 3 reasons that schools are failing and the kids these days are stupid:

1. They're teaching to the tests rather than actually educating. Their funding and jobs depend upon a set amount of kids passing random tests, and so you can hardly blame them for doing this. These kids remember what they have to in order to pass a test and then forget it. And can you blame them? Because they've been told that the only thing that matters is the test.

2. Look at these graduation requirements: Tennessee graduation requirements And that's Tennessee, folks. They spend so much time on this advanced junk that most of them will never use that the basics completely atrophy. On top of that, they know they're not going to use it, so they just tune out the stuff that they will need right along with the stuff that they won't.

3. The kids and the parents. Despite what everybody seems to want to think, a teenager is still just a kid. Even an 18 year old still needs some parental involvement, let alone a 15 year old. Add onto this that some of these kids are spoiled rotten, a system that seems to do nothing but defend these little brats and punish their victims, and you've got a regular mess.

This isn't a problem that can be blamed on one spot or another. It's a giant mess all the way around, and the problem has many root causes.

Okay, I absolutely agree with your 3 points.
The problem has become so entrenched in our daily lives, not because of the school system or the gov't., but because of a societal change brought on by the conditions starting around the time of the baby boomer generation.
The generation after WWII had enough wealth and safety from foreign invaders to enable all the children to stop learning the skills of survival and self reliance and instead learn to rely on others for everything. We, as decendents of these fruitful, hardworking people, that had so much guts and glory and deserved the wealth and safey that they were afforded, didn'y realize the damage that they would cause future generations.

The fact that everyone born after '64 has been led into a lifestyle free of "work" as it used to be. Sure we have "jobs", but most western style living, doesn't include work of any kind. Our lives are instead filled with ways to avoid personally doing any hard work that was a requirement of past generations.

Those who do the hard work, are mostly doing so for someone else instead of their families. They receive compensation for their "work", but it actually creates very little value for the worker, or the family.

As a parent, I want the best education available for my impressionable youngster. I think the vast majority of us do. The education my children need the most comes from working hard at home.
Children need to be turned back to a time when hard work paid for itself, such as gardening, plant and animal identification, and just plain self reliance.

We expect a device to cook our food, do our dishes, do our laundry, find our destination, even teach our children.

All in the name of technology, and it's wonderful advancements...not so wonderful when whole generations of people lose the knowledge and wisdom of the past.

Go outside with your kids and show them things that are real, and put them to work on real projects that teach real skills. The benefits will be off the charts, and it can be fun too!

We can change the future by instilling a work ethic in our children. Hard work at home, not relying on the school for anything except maybe as a tool for your children to see first hand the derailment of democracy.

This turned into a rant, and for that I apologize.

How can we turn around 60 years of lazy complacency, without a huge devastating event to prove its necessity.
"Necessity is the mother of invention", so therefore wouldn't, "The lack of necessity kills ingenuity" be the phrase of our time?

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck

 

Bring back Disicpline in the schools, from pre-school up.
Teachers spend so much time trying to maintain control, theres no time for teaching.

Schools today are just Day Care with a Theme.

BS. The problem is with the teachers themselves. For starters most teachers only teach to girl's and leave boy's to "figure it out for themselves". Look at the drop out rates or heck even gpa's by gender and it is blatantly obvious that there is systematic discrimination going on.

I say, require 50-50 gender ratio among instructors, and put cameras in the classrooms to make sure the teachers aren't discriminating against the students.

That in of itself would dramatically improve things.


-------
Seriously: Read this report/study about anti-male discrimination in the educational system.

cee.lse.ac.uk...

Granted it is from the UK, but given that the USA is facing the same problem it is relevant to a degree.


www.nanny.net...

reply to post by reverandrandy




This whole "back in my day" bs is just that, BS. Sure some middle-middle class or upper middle class to rich families can afford to spoil their kids. But most American's are POOR. It is a horrible thing to admit it, but it is the truth.

As per the laziness, it isn't exactly laziness. You have to remember we live in a very prohibitive society that prevents kid's and teenagers from being free to explore. The geriatrics have abused their responsibility and authority to satisfy their own statist ego.

Look at your post: Your making the "starve the body to feed the soul" bargain without a drop of shame. The elder generations are blindly narcissistic. It is funny, they robbed us blind before we where even born. They inflated the cost of living to increase their 401k irregardless of how much more difficult it makes for the younger generations trying to start out in life. And then to further increase said 401k's, and overpaid management job's, they shipped the job's that are shippable overseas. And the ones that aren't they brought in cheap, almost slave like, foreign labor.

And then you have the gall to call us lazy because we are "unmotivated". Ask yourself this: "What is there to be motivated about"?

Perpetual poverty?
No real job's?
Working to death so some geriatric can live a retirement of luxury?

I have a better idea, taken from ancient Celtic traditions: Sacrifice the old to save the young. But those like yourself tend to follow the Greek tradition of the old cannibalizing the young*.

*Off hand reference to the Titans and Olympians.

I think others already pointed out some very relevant problems, that I would have brought up myself if they hadn't been already.
Another is the refusal to hold kids back if they aren't performing well enough? I live in a European country, where the earlier education is better, I think, than in the US- at least looking at my kids education compared to mine.

I had all the problems other sited here- my parents were not involved at all in my education (had no idea and didn't care), in the first few years, I was the only english speaking student in my class, so had to sit outside by a tree all day while the others were taught how to speak english- this put me way back in the curriculum compared to other schools, the teachers effort to discipline the unruly kids meant I was forgotten and ignored despite my requests for aid with the material I was behind in when I changed to a more english speaking area. This change created a skip in my education- I have major lacks- like I never learned my multiplication tables.
And yet I graduated high school.

In my kids education, however, if a child doesn't pass any of their subjects in the end of the year average, they are held back. When my kid was held back around fourth grade, I was filled with shame! What I learned is that contrary to what I was used to in the US, almost all the kids get held back at least once in their education.

This allows the kid to really reinforce ALL the subjects taught that year, as well as the one that was deficient, and they go on to be better students. I think it would do us better (as a nation) to do that more.

I also have learned to appreciate the Baccalaurate system- a huge exam at the end of high school, both oral and written, in which any subjects taught during the four years of high school can be brought in at random- nobody knows which, and it is not the same for two students. Basically, they have to REMEMBER what they are taught, study it all a lot. The stress is enormous, it's true- but on the other hand, my kids, from the time they are the equivalent of freshmen, are already thinking about that test and making sure to study their courses and notes thoroughly right away, in preparation.

Another big factor I noticed, though do not know if it is stil the case in the US now- the emphasis on personal creativity that goes to an extreme? The notion that there is a base of knowledge that has to be learned, and memorized and mastered, before one can set out on being individual creative was totally inexistant in my childhood. You start out writing your own poems and stories before having studied and memorized the classics, you start playing your own music before having learned to read musical notes and studying the music works already existing, you start doing scientific experiments with chemicals before having learned the Periodic Table of Elements and Chemistry.......etc.

The idea was to make it fun first, so that kids would be motivated and inspired to learn those bases. What it did was make hard work and effort before personal pleasure fulfillment unknown and inhabitual for the kids.
We ended up thinking life was like that- it is always possible to skip the hard part and get on with the fun. I think this is not how the world tends to work and becomes a handicap.

Originally posted by NthOther
The schools aren't "failing". They're doing exactly what they were designed to do. If anything, the public school system (at least in the United States, which is all I can speak to) represents a case study in successful social engineering.

Educated people, capable of critical thinking, threaten established power. That power, of course, doesn't want that. So you're not going to get anything else until you take your kids out of that power structure. And then you'll be demonized for doing it.

The system is so transparent, it would be laughable if it wasn't so insulting.

If the schools were designed to do this, then it's a relatively new one. When I was in grade and high school in the '70's and '80's, my schools weren't anything like they are now. I was in small towns too, although I don't know if that has anything to with it. We were taught the basics and they stuck with me.

I don't remember if it was a part of the curriculum or not but I remember in the first grade, when I was 7 years old, I had every capital of every state memorized. Just me and some girl got them all right. Back then the teachers seemed to genuinely care that you got educated. From what I hear these days, in the big cities especially, schools just seem to be places where teachers get paid and students get passed along. That's it. It's really sad that that's the way it's become.

That's only part of the picture though. Your home life and whether you want to learn play a big part as well. I remember growing up there were always books in the house. Fiction. Non-Fiction, Encyclopedia's, National Geographics, Readers Digests, you name it and it seemed to be in that house. I still don't know where my mom got all that stuff because we were by no means rich. But I was a sponge. I just soaked all of that up because, apparently, I wanted to learn. It was always a pretty quiet house too so it was easy to concentrate. And that's a big thing right there I think. No matter how bad your school is you can find a way to learn if you really want to. Especially in this day and age with the internet.

If your school seems to have no curriculum with substance, which most of them seem not to have these days, just go because you have to. Phone it in. Then when you leave go to the public library or anywhere else with a free internet hook-up if your family can't afford their own and let the real learning begin. If you don't have anyone in your life who can each you, teach yourself. Trust me, it works. I was fortunate though, as I said, in that I had some pretty good schools growing up. but since I was shy when I was a kid, I just went home and kept learning.


As far as your second paragraph is concerned, about threatening established power, I think you have to be a big part of the establishment for that statement to apply. There are people out there, myself included, who have never really been part of the "establishment." When that's the case the establishment doesn't seem to see you. And if they do, they could very well not see the "real" you. You could be Nikola Tesla Jr., but if you're out on the fringe where no one can see you, you're not a threat to the establishment because you're not a part of it. When I did become a part of things, socializing and all, I was always the prick of group. I took some kind of weird pride in being able to figure people out and make fun of them. Still, not really a part of the establishment.

My child at this point is still a part of the "system", going to public school, but I fully intend for that to change next year. I think it's important for her to learn social skills, but as you get up to the high school age those social skills seem to take on a higher priority than learning. As far as being demonized for it, I could care less. What are they going to do, kick me out of a social structure? (That's assuming of course that anyone will actually say something negative about my parenting directly to me.) I'm going to do what I feel is best for my daughter and I could care less what anyone else thinks about it. ( Well......ALMOST anyone

I received a good education growing up but I didn't learn the necessary social skills to adequately apply what I learned. My daughter is getting both a good education and a good amount of social skills. And that, to me, is what education should be all about. Giving the next generation more than what you had so we can keep progessing as a society.

And again, it's a shame that that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Just for kicks:

Title should say why PUBLIC schools are failing in the U.S.

Private and charter schools are still kicking a#$.

Children are at school long enough to come out at the end with a serious SKILL. They don't so that's the final proof of the system's failure.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


Most parts of your argument are correct. In fact, the best way to educate everyone would be to start with an intelligence test (related to Wildbob77's comment), but more importantly each person should be taught differently; not everyone is the same, and where one person might have extensive knowledge on a subject, another person may not know a thing. Tests are not necessarily bad, but when all students are taught with the assumption that they all know the same things, the intelligent ones are bored, and the others are left behind and confused. Actually, students shouldn't be able to continue to the next subject/chapter/section until they have completed a test at 100% which explains they know all of the information, and nothing less.
Surely the entire planet's nations can do better than they are currently. Education may be one of the most important thing to the world.

Jordan

reply to post by Tw0Sides


I think that there are many teachers out there that wouldn't need additional discipline if they were allowed to teach their respective subjects, beyond what is needed for rather arbitrary, standardized, state-run tests... you would see more teachers being able to cater to their students, and maybe find a way to engage students rather than administer additional disciplinary actions.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


As a parent of a school ager in Florida, I have to say that I agree with everything you have to say. The educational system in our state is a joke.