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Yet I just can't help but wonder how someone of his intelligence doesn't at least question SOME things. It's an absolute 100% iron clad belief that he demonstrates every time I see him.
"The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic."
For the true believers out there, would it anger you to learn I was among you for these reasons?
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Paschar0
Dear Paschar0,
For the true believers out there, would it anger you to learn I was among you for these reasons?
I preach on Sundays and wouldn't mind you being there; but, if you attended my services and asked my opinion, I would tell you should try and find a church that you agreed with based on your understanding of the bible or tell you that you probably shouldn't bother attending. You shouldn't feel obliged to go to church to please others. I would also try and explain the bible to you in a manner that is inconsistent with most preachers.
I appreciate that. One of the real problems I have is that I don't truly believe that the bible is the word of "God". Factually it was written by people just like you and me at a time very different from today. I understand the practicality of the bible then and now, but I see it as a collection of stories, many of which seem as a control mechanism for a largely ignorant and manipulable audience. Even the most educated believers acknowledge this and look past all it's flaws, but I just can't seem to put my trust in something I know to be so flawed.
He's successful, generous, forgiving and everything I wish I was to be honest.
Yet I just can't help but wonder how someone of his intelligence doesn't at least question SOME things. It's an absolute 100% iron clad belief that he demonstrates every time I see him.
Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by Paschar0
He's successful, generous, forgiving and everything I wish I was to be honest.
Why? ;-)
Yet I just can't help but wonder how someone of his intelligence doesn't at least question SOME things. It's an absolute 100% iron clad belief that he demonstrates every time I see him.
I've got an old friend who used to work in a nuclear power plant, he's retired now. A very smart man who introduced me to the world of physics as I had never thought of it at a relatively young age. He also has the firm belief you talk about. I don't attend the church even though I'm asked. Something weird happened a couple of months ago, that got me thinking:
I was researching a specific part of history and I had encountered a lot of information that was new to me...I wanted to share this information with my old friend. So one day I thought about how I could share my findings with him, I couldn't figure out the right way to start sharing the information - as I have tremendous respect for this man and did not want to step on his toes out of said respect. Sceptical of everything including God, I posed a simple question to the Almighty. I asked how I could find a way to share this information with a man I have so much respect for without him being offended because the timeline of the history was in conflict with my friends beliefs.
So a day goes by and I visit some family...after an hour or so the doorbell rang and sure enough, there was my friend. In his hand a bunch of printed papers...
get this; someone else had also researched the same history I had researched, had put it in a neat folder and had shared it with my friend and my friend wanted to share it with my relatives. Completely out of the blue, my friend didn't know I was at my relatives house he didn't know I was researching said history.
Makes ya think.
Edit:
I posted this because your friend reminds me of mine, also, were I to go sit in a church I would be as humored as you because so many clueless people fill up churches.edit on 7-2-2012 by InfoKartel because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Paschar0
Dear Paschar0,
I wish to be clear, I don't seek to prove to non-believers that they should believe. I am willing to answer questions; but, I don't seek non-believers out. My real issues are with people who claim to be believers and don't bother digging deeper than what they were told.
I appreciate that. One of the real problems I have is that I don't truly believe that the bible is the word of "God". Factually it was written by people just like you and me at a time very different from today. I understand the practicality of the bible then and now, but I see it as a collection of stories, many of which seem as a control mechanism for a largely ignorant and manipulable audience. Even the most educated believers acknowledge this and look past all it's flaws, but I just can't seem to put my trust in something I know to be so flawed.
Having said what I said, if you wish to look at the history of the bible you might find there is much more to it then just about any book. I would recommend that you read "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" if you are interested; but, if you choose not too that is okay as it is an individual decision and I happen to like my free will. As far as it being a collection of stories, you need to understand how it came about. The New Testament was primarily a series of letters written to people who knew the author and were alive at the time of the events. They were all written long before the printing press and had to be hand copied and delivered to the churches at a time when there was no postal service. These letters didn't just appear and get adopted by others. The individual churches began sharing these letters amongst each other and eventually, when it was safe to do so, they got together and put together what we think of as the New Testament; but, each church had to attest to how they received the letters or they were not included.
If you read the first three chapters of Revelations it begins with the fact that it was included in letters to seven churches. The author states who he is and proves he knows what is going on in each of the churches by mentioning names and specific things going on in those churches. The existing copies that we have that were distributed to different churches show less than 1% variation and 99% of those are meaningless variations. It wasn't the age of mass media or the internet, when you received a letter and it was a big deal, the person who brought it to you was also someone you knew or knew of. A different time when personal connections were how we communicated. Peace.
Arguably, we don't have that level of evidence here but I think you get what I mean.
I just keep quiet let it be done, even though I feel like raising my hand every two minutes.
It's more about being formal than religious to some I guess, god is so intertwined in society its almost forceful.