are masons evil?

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by theron dunn
I still don't see why income to a corporation should be taxed, then distributed to shareholders and taxed. it seems ridiculous in the extreme the way we double, triple and quadruple tax dollars... the fleecing of america.

It is my opinion that only businesses should be taxed by the government and that individuals should not be taxed at all. I favor this approach because it would be much easier for the government to audit the tax liability of a couple million businesses than it is to audit the tax liability of 300 or so million individuals. The individual would in no way escape taxation as each business would add their tax liability on to the cost of their products and services that are purchased by individuals. The tax would be a consumption tax.

This subject came up recently in the Campaign Issues forum. I strongly oppose a consumption tax for several reasons, but most importantly because it would raise taxes on the working poor.

The federal income tax system is progressive; the more net income an individual receives, the higher percentage his tax rate becomes. If, for example, a flat tax rate of 17% were introduced (as is being pushed by some Republicans), couples who make $50,000 to $100,000 per year would pay in pretty much the same. However, those who make over $100,000 per year would see a huge tax cut, while those who make less than $50,000 per year would pay more to make up for the difference (e.g., those whose tax rates are currently 10% - 15% would have their rates increase to 17%, while those whose rates are 25%+ would see a substantial decrease). This, while keeping in mind the fact that the current administration has spent itself into a record deficit.

A consumption tax would work almost exactly the same way. The wealthiest 2% would keep more of their money, while the rest of us would see the price of living skyrocket in the fact that our new consumption tax, over the course of a year, would far exceed our previous income taxes, especially to those who are in the 10% bracket.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The federal income tax system is progressive

In principle the federal income tax system is progressive, but I do not believe it is in progressive practice. Having prepared returns for many of the working poor it was quite apparent to me that these people just are not sophisticated enough to take advantage of breaks provided in the current federal tax system. Many of these folks do not even know the difference between W-2 wages and 1099 wages. This results in them paying huge penalties to the federal government erasing the theoretical progressive benefits that the existing tax system is intended to provide. Most are also not equipped to fully take advantage child care, education and other benefits to which they are entitled, because they do not bring the proper documentation for the deductions to the tax preparer even when prompted by the tax preparer to do so.

I understand your point, but none-the-less the tax system should be fully understandable by the tax payer without the need of a tax preparer and our current system is just not understandable to the average joe. It should be.
.

My brother, I concur. BIllions are spent each year to support tax preparers, bookkeepers and CPAs, along with foolish investments and hiding of income that would not be necessary or possible if we had a VAT tas. Further, the idea that the poor would be more heavily taxed is fales, since a VAT tax would exempt most foods, housing, and clothing (ostensibly).

So, cars, durable goods (computers, refrigerators, stoves, washer/dryers etc), planes, trains, vacations, boats etc WOULD be taxed. Savings would NOT be taxed, which would create an incentive for saving and investment, which our current system discourages, nor would we be fighting over definitions of what is income and what is not.. you spend it on items beyond sustenance, and you pay taxes on it.

No more IRS, no more tax preparers, no more billions flushed down the commode.

See, masons AREN'T evil...

Originally posted by df1

In principle the federal income tax system is progressive, but I do not believe it is in progressive practice.

I meant "progressive" in the sense that the tax rate rises as income increases, i.e., for persons married filing jointly, the first $14,000 of income is taxed at a rate of 10%, the next additional $42,800 is taxed at a rate of 15%, etc., with the rates maxing out at 35% on income over $311,950.

In my opinion, this is a fair method of taxation. No matter how much money you make in a year (whether it's 20 thousand or 20 million), the first $14,000 is taxed at the same rate for everybody; above and beyond that, the same rates also universally apply. I am also an accountant, and have observed the fluctuations in tax preparations, and have compared them to the theories currently espoused by those who want to change them. It's not surprising to me that those most vocal for change are the wealthiest among us, since they would be the only ones who would benefit from such a change.

Having prepared returns for many of the working poor it was quite apparent to me that these people just are not sophisticated enough to take advantage of breaks provided in the current federal tax system. Many of these folks do not even know the difference between W-2 wages and 1099 wages.

This is absolutely correct, but most of the working poor and lower middle class qualify for the 1040EZ if they have no dependents, and those who do have dependents almost always use the 1040A, as they almost never itemize. Since most who use the 1040A hire a preparer, it is our professional responsibility to ensure that return is correct, including child tax credits, education credits, retirement credits, etc.

I understand your point, but none-the-less the tax system should be fully understandable by the tax payer without the need of a tax preparer and our current system is just not understandable to the average joe. It should be.
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I also understand your point, but a more easily comprehensible system does not necessarily mean a better system. For example, the aforementioned 17% flat tax is much easier to understand than our current system, but just because it's understandable doesn't make it a good deal for the working poor, who will paying an additional 2% - 7% in taxes because of it. I am of the opinion that the system can be simplified without raising taxes on the middle class, and without giving more breaks to wealthy corporations who outsource American jobs.

Fiat Lvx.

TextI don't mind if people have secret societies as long as they don't drag the objectives into the work place. What's the motto for Masons? "For the betterment of your fellow men."? Does anyone actually think this bodes well for equality in the workplace? Jobs are tight, layoffs have caused people to take on extra duties and hours have been cut. When a Mason VP continueally hires his idiot compatriats to the detriment of the company something needs to be done. This man's idiots have not lasted longer than a year and a half. There has been four in a row and they have all been my bosses. I have been here 13 years and since this Mason gained control seven years ago, not one woman has been promoted but a stockroom clerk has now been promoted twice to oversee two departments that he has absolutely no experience with.

So are secret societies dangerous? Only if we let them. By the way, I'm working on getting my latest boss fired. Just like all the others, which isn't very hard. I just don't cover up their mistakes.

Another thing I am doing is staking out the local Mason's Lodge on meeting nights to record how many men from this company attend. I will be using this in a future lawsuit.

By the way, I'm working on getting my latest boss fired.

The people responsible for firing your bosses . . . . . are also Masons.

Hehe . . j/k

Better find a good lawyer. Probably be a Mason anyway.

Alright, I was kidding there, too.

In any case, good luck with your lawsuit. You might not get very far with it, though. What exaclty are you alleging, by the way?

Another thing I am doing is staking out the local Mason's Lodge on meeting nights to record how many men from this company attend. I will be using this in a future lawsuit.

I take it this is what is meant by "Praktis makes perfect".

I can understand frustration, at any misconduct by managers of a Company, but if you have to watch at Lodge meetings , does that mean this is only a suspicion at the moment. I would have thought you needed more evidence than just you down at a Lodge meeting ?

However if your right, I too believe that it is wrong to treat another Mason better than someone of the same qualifications.

I have to say, I have never receieved any favors from other Masons. I would be very pleased to.

What about that box of cigars I sent you?

www.mychip.org...
www.mychip.org...

Makes me smile when I see children chipping/tagging things. There is always good intentions maybe, but their are very bad implications also. People forget children grow into adults and will still be on the database, DNA and all.

Still the farmer wants to control his live stock better he needs to tag their @ss!!

Wither freemasons are aware of it or not this is playing nicely for the NWO!

You ARE aware, Chakra, that CHIP does not denote an actual microchip, lol !!! It is an acronym.

It involves videotape, fingerprints, and toothprints. No "tagging" involved. The parents are given the whole kit. Hardly high-tech. Hardly "NWO", or whatever.

Next time read your source carefully before you use it as ammunition against Masonry.
You might make yourself look like an amateur.

Just a friendly warning, though.


Here is a clearer source:

www.rimasons.org...





[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

1. I am aware it is not actually body tagging. If I thought it was do you think thats all I would have posted........? I would have started a new thread!

2. Your source is not clearer, it contains less information so how can it be clearer? The PDF I posted is the clearest thing, its instructions for Masons how clear can you get? are you saying your fellow masons cannot write clear instructions on how to impliment this program??

3. They are playing into the hands of the NWO because when inserting chips comes to the forefront they will have a nice friendly platform/procedure in place to get it going.

4. Yes I like to spend my time finding ammo to blast freemasonry with! I don't even need to explain why I found that story to you! You would not believe me anyway as it seems you have me down for a freemason hunter.

5. I am an amateur, everyday is a day for learning!!! I did think they kept the DNA on a database. That is the reason for taking DNA no? to make a backup??

6. Its not really a friendly warning is it? its more of a awww poor little chap, maybe try again next time comment.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

3. They are playing into the hands of the NWO because when inserting chips comes to the forefront they will have a nice friendly platform/procedure in place to get it going.

And you know this for a FACT because . . . ?? Pure speculation.

4. Yes I like to spend my time finding ammo to blast freemasonry with!

I don't even need to explain why I found that story to you! You would not believe me anyway as it seems you have me down for a freemason hunter.

You used a charitable, innocuous public service performed by Masons, then erroneously linked it with the "NWO." You appropriated a charitable public service, and reinterpreted it as sinister. That takes a bit of work and plenty of reaching. Your intentions were not to educate or even *gasp* praise, but to go fishing for something you can potentially re-spin as negative.

5. I am an amateur, everyday is a day for learning!!! I did think they kept the DNA on a database. That is the reason for taking DNA no? to make a backup??

The information about the child is given to the parents. If you think the DNA (in the database) will be used for malicious purposes, then prove it. The burden of proof is on the accuser, obviously.

Indeed, try again next time.


[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

I linked it with the NWO because when Chipping into bodies comes around I, ME, think the freemason program will serve as a good platform for introducing to the public. I am beginnning to wish I made that clear now.

Read my first post again, I said whether freemasons are AWARE OR NOT! If I was fishing and I had ammo I would not have included the above statment.

I hope you have better luck with your 1st degree then you have claiming I am fishing for bad articals to post. Like I said I don't need to prove to you why I found it. Maybe I should have made my post clearer but hey, I am an amateur, I learn everyday.

I never said DNA would be used a malicious way by the freemasons??? or are you asking how it could be used in a bad way by the NWO?? can you not think of situations for yourself? NWO ones? thats the beauty of the NWO, fact doesn't exsist until its too late.

However the gathering of DNA for database storage is something which would serve the NWO very well, again whether the respective companies/organisation are aware of it or not. Oh but wait that isn't a fact, maybe I shouldn't post it...?

Sorry if you feel offended by me THINKING this honest program could be used for bad future orders.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

1.) Linking this Masonic public service with NWO is based purely on speculation. You are CERTAINLY allowed to give your opinion, and I will defend to the death your right to do so, but also be prepared for questions, comments, and counter-responses. The FACT is, that right now, the CHIP program is a commendable public service, and if you were a parent, you'd most certainly modify your attitude.

2.) The assumption that the "Masonic Program", in part via the potential practice of microchip implanation, will serve this "NWO" that might "rule the planet" someday, is also speculation, of a very, very hazy nature. It sounds like recycled material from the 10 million NWO/Armageddon/Evil Freemason sites. How banal. Still, you have every right to post it, and good on ya (!) for doing so.



[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

You honestly can't see freemasons THINKING they are doing the right thing by funding free microchip insertion?

when it become national standard do you think Freemasons are going to countinue with this CHIP or maybe, as a charity offer free microchips?

Again I never said as fact freemasons know they are doing the dirty, but the program they are using would be there, used and ready to roll out microchips.

Its not that hazy. Microchips are occuring now, you honestly haven't seen the stories of Clubbers in spain being chipped? verichip pre-order for the US. check for thread on ATS. Its coming and its not just some bible doomsday scenerio.

anyway I think we understand each other now.

LOL, WHAT MICROCHIP INSERTION ??????????

There is none yet in the mainstream.

I won't speculate on what Masons will or will not fund, either now or in the future. LOL.

Right now, CHIP does not include any kind of microchip inserted anywhere. It includes fingerprints, videotaope of the child, and dental records.

You seem to WANT these "links" of yours to happen in order to valdiate your theory.

Masons + Child Find Program + Subdermal Chip + Masonic adoption of VeriChip + Masonic involvement in NWO = mean and nasty stuff.





[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra
1. I am aware it is not actually body tagging. If I thought it was do you think thats all I would have posted........?

I would have started a new thread!

2. Your source is not clearer, it contains less information so how can it be clearer? The PDF I posted is the clearest thing, its instructions for Masons how clear can you get? are you saying your fellow masons cannot write clear instructions on how to impliment this program??

3. They are playing into the hands of the NWO because when inserting chips comes to the forefront they will have a nice friendly platform/procedure in place to get it going.

4. Yes I like to spend my time finding ammo to blast freemasonry with!

I don't even need to explain why I found that story to you! You would not believe me anyway as it seems you have me down for a freemason hunter.

5. I am an amateur, everyday is a day for learning!!! I did think they kept the DNA on a database. That is the reason for taking DNA no? to make a backup??

6. Its not really a friendly warning is it? its more of a awww poor little chap, maybe try again next time comment.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

7th... its not nice to pick on someone... the KIDS program, as it is called in California, or the CHIP program, as it is called in other states, has nothing to do with implantation, and nothing to do with NWO or any such other nonsense. It is a service provided for free by masons to children and their parents, which allows a parent to keep in one place, all the information on their child the police will need in the awful case the child is kidnapped.

Masons don't fill out the form, we do not keep any records, and as the Child ID Committee Chairman for the 447th masonic District, I can tell you that our service has helped find children that have been taken. This year, my district alone has so far registered 4,000 children for their parents.

KIDS Program Overview
Why the progam is important
How Does it Work?
North California Calendar
Southern California Calendar

Denigrating or dismissing a service that has helped so many is just not intellectually, morally or spiritually honest.

www.eetimes.com...

www.guardian.co.uk... (respected UK paper)

news.zdnet.co.uk...

www.4verichip.com...

It really isn't that far away.

Theron Dunn, didn't I explain I thought the NWO might USE it has a springboard? my opinion of course. can I make it any clearer? I could have in my first post but can I make it any clearer now??

did I bad mouth the actually mason program itself? I have posted about other corps being used to impliment the chip and freemasonry now could be because of this.

Example:-

Hospitals are a place of recovery and saviour, yet the NWO might use them to implant chips as in the above story. Good being used for bad.

for the last time NWO MIGHT use this freemason program as a platform. Just like the Hospital. Oh yeah, my opinion of cause.

There is not a hidden jab at masonry in everyones post. If I am having a jab I'll make it clear to save all this hassle.

Dunn, about your last comment. Do not to make out I am trying to badmouth freemasonry and cast darkness on my character. Good can be used for bad, that is a 100% fact. Whether it does happen or not is speculation/opinion, I know. Time will tell as it always does.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by 7th_Chakra]

delete ----------------------------------------------------

[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]

OK, then. Chakra.

If the Masons end up funding/supporting/implanting it, please let us know.

lol, I can't really say much more beyond that.

Speculation is speculation. Either it happens or it doesn't. It's simply unlikely that Masons would appropriate a valuable public serice in order to erve the "NWO", whether consciously or not.

Besides, I hope I don't have to pont out that the consequences of such an idea being passed into law are legion when it comes to privacy and Constitutional rights. I doubt Americans would stand for it.

[edit on 30-9-2004 by LTD602]