Beast of Exmoor

I suspect these are melanistic Leopards.
Accounts I've been reading and looking at while getting side tracked in several directions all over the web have me pretty convinced of leopards, though puma have also been recorded spotted?

What's interesting with hybridization between puma and leopard, it seems to trigger a dwarfism gene where you get a half-sized sandy leopard.
Me want. want want want.

I had an African Serval for years.

Anyway, Leopards tend to have a range from 12-30miles for territory. They're extremely adaptable, much more so than any of the other big cats. They're also quite the bit more sneaky than all the other big cats, typically avoiding humans.

reply to post by sightings


My bad,forgotten your username thought it may have been you
Thankyou Kester for the info

Regards to all

Originally posted by nineix
Very interesting.
S&F

I've some experience in handling and working with exotic cats, ie; caracal, serval, puma, lynx, bobcats.
They're wonderful, beautiful, amazing animals and much smarter than you'd think without having experience with them.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was a melanistic puma, a panther, or some other larger exotic someone had as an exotic pet that got out of hand and escaped, or, even scarier, is bonded with it's owner where the owner just lets it loose.
The latter would give the animal human protection and a place to hide, further confounding efforts to find an animal suspected to be living totally in the wild.

The biggest, clearest picture in your post, however, the cat's tail doesn't look long enough for a puma, though it would fit for a panther.

edit on 19-1-2012 by nineix because: (no reason given)

"...much smarter than you'd think..." is a very good point. Some cats seem to know where and when people will be lying in wait for them. The first clear sighting of a black Leopard I had was from a car. The cat took four steps then turned and looked towards me as if it was aware that someone was watching from one of several cars passing by. That's smart.

A feeding site was discovered a few miles from where I live. Someone had been giving the cat pieces of mutton. The individual who discovered it had great difficulty persuading anyone to go with them to see it. I think it was an environmental health officer who went with them the next day. When they got there the site had been cleaned up, there was a strong smell of bleach and some animal vomit. The few bones that were still there had saw marks so were obviously butchered. Presumably the cats feeder realised the site had been discovered, spread the bleach to put the cat off coming back and perhaps fed it something that made it vomit to strengthen the message. There have been several cases of black Leopards in Britain entering houses and caravans, sometimes to rest or sleep. In one case a man was feeling unwell in the middle of the night, he opened his front door for fresh air and sat in an armchair. A black Leopard walked in and settled down on his couch. When the man moved it growled at him, when he sat still it seemed unconcerned. He said he didn't feel threatened by it while he sat still and it left after half an hour.

The size of the tail is frequently commented on.

Many cats of various sorts were let loose when the statutes governing dangerous pets were tightened up. All the zoos were soon full and cats were being killed. More than one individual saw the potential for easy profit and told worried owners that they would re-home their cats for a price. They took the money and turned the cats loose. All the known sources of exotic cats from the Romans and perhaps Phoenicians to the more recent menagerie owners and showmen up to the pet owners of the 60's and 70's cannot explain the number of black Leopards in Britain. Unless they have been breeding very well since Roman times.

We probably ought to point out that in British English a Panther is a black Leopard. In American English a Puma is often called a Panther. This causes much confusion, journalists often being particularly confused on this point.

Originally posted by nineix

I suspect these are melanistic Leopards.
Accounts I've been reading and looking at while getting side tracked in several directions all over the web have me pretty convinced of leopards, though puma have also been recorded spotted?

What's interesting with hybridization between puma and leopard, it seems to trigger a dwarfism gene where you get a half-sized sandy leopard.
Me want. want want want.

I had an African Serval for years.

Anyway, Leopards tend to have a range from 12-30miles for territory. They're extremely adaptable, much more so than any of the other big cats. They're also quite the bit more sneaky than all the other big cats, typically avoiding humans.

Black Leopards are seen here far more frequently than Pumas. I've seen one Puma and several black Leopards. It's thought this is partly down to the Pumas colouring and habits rather than an accurate indication of relative numbers.

Hybridisation is a big issue. There are many sightings of animals that don't answer the description of known types. Many of these have some white markings, particularly under the chest. One expert says a deliberate program of releasing hybrids may explain some of the mysteries. He says he knows it's just speculation and he can't think of any reason to release hybrids but all the experts have a theory and that's his. It's worth mentioning here that becoming an expert on British Big Cats inevitably leads to being regarded as an eccentric. It's easier to become an expert if you're already an eccentric and you will be perceived as one if you aren't so all the experts are interesting characters. This doesn't help the subject gain respectability. I suspect it's useful to have these good people building up databases that can be used by the 'authorities' when they wish, or publicly discounted if inconvenient.

I've been told up to 60 miles maximum. You're clearly knowledgable. Some of the experts who collate sightings can clearly see individual cats preferred routes. More adaptable and more size variation in Leopards than other cats. Also the system of classification we use is just a way of attempting to understand something that has far more subtleties than we could be aware of. Sneaky and avoiding humans is typical. There is much atypical behaviour shown and for some this is a cause for concern. There have been many reports of black Leopards being seen next to schools for example. I think I'm right in saying Quentin Rose, RIP, was very concerned at the possible increase in danger as the cats become bolder, frequently entering towns and cities.news.bbc.co.uk...

Nice work again, Vrill!

I live in Northeast Oklahoma, USA, and we also have "big cats" around here that we aren't supposed to have. In our case they are most likely cougars (puma or what Americans often call "mountain lions") which have repopulated the area although the authorities seem reluctant to admit they are here, even when presented with a carcass.

The official stance is that we do not have an indigenous population of cougars in Oklahoma, even though there are pictures, a few dead bodies, physical evidence of attacks on horses (A few years ago I owned a 17hh horse which had obvious scars from a cougar attack in his youth) goats, and calves, and many witness reports. My husband saw one crossing the road not far from here one night while coming home from work, and something ate six full-grown domestic geese off my property over the course of a few days, including a very large, mean gander who had successfully defended himself and his flock from dog and coyote attacks in the past. Yes, it could have been a coyote pack as some will no doubt say, but at the time we had a Great Pyrenees roaming the property and the coyotes were avoiding us while he was present. Speaking of Khan, he killed several feral cats, a raccoon, and at least one coyote while here without getting a single injury, but twice during his reign he turned up with long, deep scratches around his face and shoulders, once requiring stitches.

Granted our big cats around here are probably plain old cougars which are native to North America if not officially admitted to being present in the area now, but it shows the same propensity of the authorities to deny their existence ..

A couple of your accounts seem to depict the large black cats as being sort of "bulletproof," which reminds me of accounts I've read from "Skinwalker Ranch" regarding a large wolflike creature which was immune to bullets. It makes me wonder if there is some common characteristic of many "cryptid" creatures we are missing which causes them to be unaffected by physical attacks such as bullets and knives.

Thank you for your research and work and another very interesting and informative thread.

Originally posted by hhott
Nice work again, Vrill!

A couple of your accounts seem to depict the large black cats as being sort of "bulletproof," which reminds me of accounts I've read from "Skinwalker Ranch" regarding a large wolflike creature which was immune to bullets. It makes me wonder if there is some common characteristic of many "cryptid" creatures we are missing which causes them to be unaffected by physical attacks such as bullets and knives.

There are reports of British Big Cats being shot with shotguns and carrying on walking as if nothing has happened. This along with reliable witnesses seeing cats disappear makes me wonder what some of them are. Some sightings and even some photographs and video could be shape-shifters that haven't completely changed. The best image of this seems to have gone from the internet.

My craziest theory is that some of them are tribal Britons who turned into cats rather than being 'civilised' by the Romans. I see I'm not the only one to say something like this.

"There are a few legends to the roots of the skinwalker. One such comes from the long walk. During this time, Skinwalkers would shapeshift to flee the horrors of living under the torture of the white man."

when we talk about territory's, is this 60 sq miles, or 60 miles across?

a territory 60 miles across is vast

reply to post by maintainright


Thanks for asking. I was thinking about this while I was out walking and I realised we might all mean different things. I've been told they can travel 60 miles in a night.

The best way I know to get a well informed answer is to ask Danny Nineham. He can estimate territory from the sightings reported to him that he thinks are individual cats on their rounds. Tagging them is not practical. It's important to bear in mind that British Big Cats have some different habits from cats in other countries. Well informed people who understand African or American cats often think the same knowledge applies.

Danny can be contacted on Facebook or by emailing him. If you google his name you'll find his website with his email address.

This is the most recent news story I've found mentioning him. Notice the stupid, put-down comments under the story. This is standard, until they see one themselves. Also notice the standard confusion between black Leopard and Puma.

www.watfordobserver.co.uk... tted_in_hospital_car_park/

Apologies if I seem to be going on and on but this is a subject that is of great interest to me.

This story may help you understand the situation regarding the British black Leopards. A friend was living in a bender tent in Wales. A bender tent is the traditional nomadic dwelling in these parts. Some nights he felt uneasy outside which is unusual for him. Some of us are familiar with that feeling when a big cat is around.

One night his lady friend went for her usual walk around the fields with her pet cats. As she passed under a tree there was a terrible scream and the cats scattered. Looking up she saw a black Leopard on a branch directly above her. She panicked and ran, scratching her legs on the brambles, and returned to the bender in shock.

When my friend spoke about it in the local pub he was told, "We've seen them, our parents have seen them and our grandparents have seen them. We call them ........." When he told the story he couldn't remember the Welsh name given to these cats.

This is typical of traditional country folk in the British Isles. They don't care what townies or so-called educated people think. They are the people who spend their lives in the countryside and they know what's what. For some big cats are an accepted part of the countryside, for others it's simply 'unbelievable'.

He only felt comfortable outside at night again after he decided that being eaten by a big cat was a cool way to go.

Doris Moore, mentioned in this article fought the cat off with a bunch of keys. If you're concerned about the possibility of attack this is worth knowing. Notice she has been ridiculed for discussing it and she certainly isn't the only one to report such an incident. A man who tried to snatch his neighbours pet rabbit out of the mouth of a Lynx suffered a deeply scratched hand. A hiker who sat in the heather above Loch Ness and put her hand on a well hidden Lynx was also scratched. There are plenty of bare assertions that no bodies have been found or no attacks have occurred. They are nothing more than assertions.

www.scotsman.com... ews/richard_bath_at_large_big_cat_hunter_of_kilmacolm_swears_it_isn_t_all_a_big_game_1_1355061

The Puma, Felicity, mentioned in this article was in my opinion most likely placed in the trap in an attempt to suppress talk of Pumas. She was tame and only ate dead meat. I guess we were meant to think there was only one and she had only recently been turned out. It doesn't add up. A Puma with cubs had been seen very close by shortly before she turned up in the trap. I lived in that area several months before Felicity was found in the trap and I heard what I think was a Puma scream. The only other time I've heard a Puma scream was few weeks before I saw one. My colleague and I were both running in opposite directions and we both stopped dead and looked back at each other. We were both fairly sure it was a Puma and a few weeks later it crossed the road just as we got back into the van. We drove forward and I jumped out and ran after it. I will NEVER do that again.

Most attacks in Britain are nothing more than scratches.

To try and round this off I'll say 'The Beast Of Exmoor' is a name intended to give the impression that there is one in one place. There are actually about fifty place names in Britain with 'a' beast associated with them. The truth is we have all manner of cats. Most of them can be explained fairly easily. The number of black Leopard sightings is the most common mystery that defies easy explanation. There are other cat mysteries also.

www.fwi.co.uk...

Notice the two comments side by side. Shot and disposed of then the claim that no bodies have been found along with mention of moon landings, Princess Diana and the improbability of the 'authorities' hushing things up. Now where have we heard those associations before?

The Farmers Weekly forum is worth a look if this subject interests you.

Wild British black Leopards are usually much fitter than this.

Looks like they are still out there!

Power to the kitties
Alien Big Cat time seems to come around at least once per year in the Stroud area of Gloucestershire. With 2012 only just upon us, this year has seen an early start.

Full Article Here


A balanced article about some recent big cat sightings in England.

Interesting that it quotes a "local cat hunter" as saying their territory is 100 square miles!

Originally posted by hhott

Power to the kitties
Alien Big Cat time seems to come around at least once per year in the Stroud area of Gloucestershire. With 2012 only just upon us, this year has seen an early start.

Full Article Here

Interesting that it quotes a "local cat hunter" as saying their territory is 100 square miles!

I've just been on the phone to Frank Tunbridge, the "local cat hunter", to try and get a clearer picture of the territory issue. First he says it's very difficult to be sure as we're dealing with animals that are on the whole very elusive. The reason there's an increase in sightings and kills found around this time of year is, he thinks, partly because this is the mating season. He suspects some of the kills may be made to impress the females and the males are travelling more, perhaps visiting several females and behaving generally in a more obvious manner. The bare state of the trees and lack of undergrowth in the winter also increases the number of sightings. Also during the winter deer can be easier to find than the seasonally lower populations of smaller animals that are spending more time underground and the remains of deer are far more obvious than when the diet consists of a higher proportion of smaller prey. This seems to make sense. When the leaves are on the trees and the undergrowth is thick, animals eating small prey and keeping themselves to themselves are going to be seen far less frequently.

The territory he refers to here is what he thinks individual males cover, the female territories being smaller. In the area he's studying there's a lot of cover, many old quarries with fissures running deep underground and plenty of deer and other wildlife. He suspects the young are born and nursed underground though less use is made of underground lairs during the rest of the year.

We obviously can't get a certain answer on how far they will travel. They appear to be confident swimmers according to some reports. If rivers and even estuaries aren't a barrier I suspect a strong male could travel the entire length and breadth of the country if the mood took him. On the other hand some reports suggest some of them may have quite small territories if they have what they need. They may move on for a while and return later to a patch they know.

Another thing Frank said, it was a bad line and I didn't catch all of it but I think he said he's seen evidence that they will change direction to walk behind trail cameras. From what I've seen of one appearing to be aware I was watching it from a car travelling at sixty miles an hour in a constant stream of cars I can certainly see this as being possible. There is a well known story of a big cat hunter who found the animal he was after was almost always on the opposite side of it's territory from the hunter. One day he was intuitively aware that they both passed each other on opposite sides of a rocky outcrop. When he went back and tracked it the next day the tracks confirmed what he had sensed. When he eventually shot it, (it was a danger to the local people), they stalked towards each other and he shot it as they simultaneously appeared to each other over a boulder. This degree of awareness makes it a very challenging subject.


He also said they seem to have more long distance stamina than cats that live in other parts of the world.

well that's it being reported on yahoo that there was no cat dna found on those two deer kills down south

the strongest reading the found was fox

not sure what to make of that, they've not said what they now think killed the deer

reply to post by maintainright


That's a fox I wouldn't want to meet on a dark night!

When I spoke to Frank he didn't sound at all confident in the DNA results being positive. He just said it doesn't make any difference to the people who've seen them. We know what we've seen.

After studying this for years it's obvious a lot of effort goes into manipulating public perception. A positive result would result in people wanting to be armed. I've seen this when a local youth suddenly started carrying a big stick everywhere. It turned out he'd stumbled across one eating a sheep. A positive result would also mean an outcry to 'do something'. What can be done when they're so clever they'll walk behind trail cameras? It would also mean demands for an explanation. The usual "They were turned out after the 1976 Dangerous Wild Animals Act" doesn't make any sense if you spend five minutes studying the facts. The general consensus is the black Leopards, as I call them, are a distinct species unrecognised by mainstream science. Mainstream science hates it when it's proved they are ignorant.

It was just on the news about it now and my ears perked up as soon as they said "or was it a cat?" and i got all excited to then be told it was a fox.

All the locals and people involved don't believe it was a fox though. Lets be honest, my cat has mauled a fox before, fair enough my cat is a bit of a monster himself and built like a puma but theres no way a fox killed those deers the way they were killed.

Lets not forget it wasn't long ago that the Forestry Commission in the UK admitted that there was enough proof that there were indeed big cats living in the UK.

Originally posted by Liamoville
Lets be honest....

We can be honest. The stories and comments appearing in the media show that others have chosen a different path. Someone calling themselves Sarah Hartwell is quoted in bigpondnews as having said "Conspiracy theorists have one unassailable argument. Every claim that there is no evidence to back up the conspiracy claim is seen as another part of the (non-existent) conspiracy." Meanwhile farmers, gamekeepers and others continue living in reality.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Kester

 

Im not sure how to reply to your post, because although i do believe there are big cats there, some of your stories seem a bit......over the top......

I looked up dog-faced cats and could find NO information ..........

Care to link some sources

Finally found this one. I'd got this sighting mixed up with one in another town and I was searching the wrong name. This is one of the funny ones. Walks and looks like something a bit strange. The usual sightings are black Leopard type, Puma, Lynx and some smaller cats. Then we have the oddities. Shoot me down in flames if you want but some of them look like shapeshifters who are somewhere between human and animal. There's probably some logical explanation. I'm just adding this element to show it's a complex subject.