2nd Carrier Arrives Off Straits Of Hormuz

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by snowcrash911
Without the support of the United States Britain doesn't have much geopolitical/military clout on its own, save for its nuclear submarine fleet. The UK's primary strength is its alliance with the US, which just so happens to be the aggressor in this conflict.

Actually, we do. As one of the top economies in the world, a centre for global finance (soon to be the only place outside of China where their currency can be traded), our cutting edge tech (without the UK there would be no smart phones) and a leading military power, I think we have plenty of clout.

Sure, the UK is an economical powerhouse. I was strictly speaking in terms of military force.

Originally posted by Iwinder

Have you got a link for that statement? I would like to read up on China not wanting the Iranian oil.
Kind of sounds like the old news of China getting pissed with North Korea here on the MSM.....nothing came of it.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Wether or not, it is just words, I don't know. You might be right, it might just be China appearing to do the right thing?

The last part of the article is ver interesting though! Looks like they are indeed trying to secure other avenues for their oil. I have a sneaky suspicion, they'll wait until they have those secured before denouncing Iran's actions.

Not stupid those Chinese!

reply to post by schuyler


I saw this thread and laughed. I have personally done 6 Persian Gulf deployments on carriers over the last 15 years, so I know a thing or two about it, and it seems that you do as well.

Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

 

The current cuts in defense bill that obama signed will go out until year 2023. ITs like 400 billion in cuts over 11 years.


I think this is what he is referring too. Could be wrong.

Ah I see! Yes, that probably is it! I'm British, so things like that don't usually enter my mind right away, but I should have remebered that one! Thankyou!

Originally posted by snowcrash911
Sure, the UK is an economical powerhouse. I was strictly speaking in terms of military force.

I'd still disagree mate.

Aside from the US, there isn't a nation on Earth that poses anything other than a Nuclear attack risk to the UK, to which they would promptly receive a reply anyway. No one aside from the US could ever stage an expeditionary attack on the UK withough getting a pasting.

Using your 1982 example, the Task Force we sent was a hastily assembled fleet of outdated Frigates, Destroyers and an ancient Aircraft carrier (which was the last fleet carrier we operated until the QE class comes on line), plus a motly collection of civilian liners to carry the troops. Consider also we were far from home and the Argies had home field advantage, we still did the job.

Nowadays, we have a well trained, equipped and experienced Army, the best SF, the second largest navy in NATO and a very capable Air Force. And that isn't even counting the new stuff which is coming down the line.

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Originally posted by Iwinder

Have you got a link for that statement? I would like to read up on China not wanting the Iranian oil.
Kind of sounds like the old news of China getting pissed with North Korea here on the MSM.....nothing came of it.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Wether or not, it is just words, I don't know. You might be right, it might just be China appearing to do the right thing?

The last part of the article is ver interesting though! Looks like they are indeed trying to secure other avenues for their oil. I have a sneaky suspicion, they'll wait until they have those secured before denouncing Iran's actions.

Not stupid those Chinese!

Thanks very much for the link, it was a good read and I wonder why Japan has a problem with Iran. Seems to me that as I type this Japan is experiencing the worst Nuclear accident in the worlds history as we know it.


On the very bottom it shows where Iran's oil goes and I am curious to know where the other 28 % goes to?


Again thanks for the read and no I am not being a smart ass here.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Wrong. Like another mentioned, Carriers travel in Fleets with battle groups defending them. Not to mention the Nuclear armed Subs that I assure you are lurking throughout the region. If anything so much as scratches a U.S Carrier, it's gonna be met with an overwhelming reponse of force.

I am not taking sides because I don't like this situation at all, but those are the facts. I know many people are tired of The United States and our military machine, but again the fact of the matter is it's more powerful than most people even truly understand.

Your speed boat thread awhile back had me and my brother rolling off our chairs a few weeks ago. Take it from someone who knows, No speed boat would ever get close enough to a U.S Carrier. Listen my friend, This isn't Yemen under Bill Clinton. It's a very tense, powerful Military thats currently on high alert. ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by SheopleNation
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Wrong. Like another mentioned, Carriers travel in Fleets with battle groups defending them. Not to mention the Nuclear armed Subs that I assure you are lurking throughout the region. If anything so much as scratches a U.S Carrier, it's gonna be met with an overwhelming reponse of force.

I am not taking sides because I don't like this situation at all, but those are the facts. I know many people are tired of The United States and our military machine, but again the fact of the matter is it's more powerful than most people even truly understand.

Your speed boat thread awhile back had me and my brother rolling off our chairs a few weeks ago. Take it from someone who knows, No speed boat would ever get close enough to a U.S Carrier. Listen my friend, This isn't Yemen under Bill Clinton. It's a very tense, powerful Military thats currently on high alert. ~SheopleNation

I would like your thought on this Link.
wakeupfromyourslumber.com...



What do you say to a 160 foot sub getting past 12 defensive ships close enough for a confirmed kill on a US carrier?
Technology is not all of the game, these guys were running a diesel/electric sub with a small crew.
Awaiting your thoughts on the above link.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder


Japan doesn't have "a problem with Iran". They do as they are told because they are our allies, we protect them, and if we didn't, Then Red China and North Korea would annihilate them. I believe that we should allow and encourage the Japanese to build a few Aircraft carriers to help balance the power with China who now has her first ever Carrier. ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by snowcrash911
Sure, the UK is an economical powerhouse. I was strictly speaking in terms of military force.

I'd still disagree mate.

Aside from the US, there isn't a nation on Earth that poses anything other than a Nuclear attack risk to the UK, to which they would promptly receive a reply anyway. No one aside from the US could ever stage an expeditionary attack on the UK withough getting a pasting.

Using your 1982 example, the Task Force we sent was a hastily assembled fleet of outdated Frigates, Destroyers and an ancient Aircraft carrier (which was the last fleet carrier we operated until the QE class comes on line), plus a motly collection of civilian liners to carry the troops. Consider also we were far from home and the Argies had home field advantage, we still did the job.

Nowadays, we have a well trained, equipped and experienced Army, the best SF, the second largest navy in NATO and a very capable Air Force. And that isn't even counting the new stuff which is coming down the line.

Okay, what I wanted to add was: according to a documentary I saw, there was something technically wrong with the defense system on board the HMS Sheffield that caused it to switch back and forth between two targets (Argentinian planes, or was it the missiles?) and never really engaging. Do you remember this?


Correction, that incident relates to HMS Coventry and HMS Broadsword.

Originally posted by SheopleNation
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Japan doesn't have "a problem with Iran". They do as they are told because they are our allies, we protect them, and if we didn't, Then Red China and North Korea would annihilate them. I believe that we should allow and encourage the Japanese to build a few Aircraft carriers to help balance the power with China who now has her first ever Carrier. ~SheopleNation

Ahem......posted above by another poster but the Link is the BBC so I will stand by my statement that Japan does have a problem with Iran.
Link
www.bbc.co.uk...

You really should read the posts here before you jump on people.
It could be you missed it if so you are forgiven.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by Iwinder


Yeah yuh know it's funny how when you can predict whats coming next, meaning your post. Only I expected it from "The Professional". Anyway, Yeah I am quite aware of the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk incident. It was posted here at ATS.

Listen, The Chinese are very intelligent people. I don't have an answer for what happened, which should be expected because our Navy High Command doesn't. However, The Chinese are not the Iranians. Don't make the mistake of believing that just because China and Iran have economic ties that it means China shares their most intimate, secret technologies or tactics. Remember, we are talking about Iran, not Red China.

I will say though that it's a very valid point that you pointed out because we are lucky if we even are aware of 1/2 of what The PLA Navy are up to. Knowing their culture, I assure you that we do not. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by Iwinder


Of course I read the post. Don't make the mistake of believing that I need to be forgiven by a misled, sheoplized yes man who believes everything that the mass media feeds them either. Now that we got that straight, do you have anything else to offer towards the subject other than your fabricated, elite title here at ATS? ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by SheopleNation
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Of course I read the post. Don't make the mistake of believing that I need to be forgiven by a misled, sheoplized yes man who believes everything that the mass media feeds them either. Now that we got that straight, do you have anything else to offer towards the subject other than your fabricated, elite title here at ATS? ~SheopleNation

I starred your post above this one here, I don't understand what you are saying in this post.
" your fabricated, elite title here at ATS?" what do you mean?


I really can't reply to this post as I have no idea of what your getting at, if you could it would be nice if you clarify your statements above.
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by snowcrash911


HMS Sheffield did have the outdated Type 965 radar, which was due to be replaced with a more advanced version prior to the war, but that was put on hold as the Task Force deployed. In fact, they didn't even know they were under missile attack until there was a visual sighting, such was the limitations of that radar set.

Whilst we did take casualties during the war, it has to be said that afterwards the RN learnt many valuable lessons in doctrine and equipment shortcomings.

Why US military make this data public ?

reply to post by Iwinder


Did you not post this prior to your star for me, which I appreciate?

You really should read the posts here before you jump on people.
It could be you missed it if so you are forgiven.
Regards, Iwinder

It seems that you did. If it's a misunderstanding then it's not a big deal. Also, you mentioned me maybe being "forgiven". Well, When posters assume that other posters feel the need to be forgiven, it comes across as arrogant. Again, Misunderstandings happen all the time in forums. All I care about is discussing interesting subjects such as this without it ever getting personal. It's all about opinions, and nothing more. ~SheopleNation

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by snowcrash911

 

HMS Sheffield did have the outdated Type 965 radar, which was due to be replaced with a more advanced version prior to the war, but that was put on hold as the Task Force deployed. In fact, they didn't even know they were under missile attack until there was a visual sighting, such was the limitations of that radar set.

Whilst we did take casualties during the war, it has to be said that afterwards the RN learnt many valuable lessons in doctrine and equipment shortcomings.

I was incorrect, the incident I referred to was HMS Coventry and HMS Broadsword.

As an IT guy, I get a little uncomfortable when I see defense systems performing as poorly as that.

I did go along on a college excursion to a radar manufacturer, where we got to see, among other things, the "Goalkeeper" with its huge Gatling gun.

Very impressive. Such weapons can prevent lots of service men deaths. It had better work though.

Originally posted by SheopleNation
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Did you not post this prior to your star for me, which I appreciate?

You really should read the posts here before you jump on people.
It could be you missed it if so you are forgiven.
Regards, Iwinder

It seems that you did. If it's a misunderstanding then it's not a big deal. Also, you mentioned me maybe being "forgiven". Well, When posters assume that other posters feel the need to be forgiven, it comes across as arrogant. Again, Misunderstandings happen all the time in forums. All I care about is discussing interesting subjects such as this without it ever getting personal. It's all about opinions, and nothing more. ~SheopleNation

all right then lets get back to shall we?
:-)

I still say Japan has a major problem with Iran, the BBC article proves it. This is not in Japans interest to do lip service to the United States.

Back to the rubber subs from china, just think if they have 200 of those suckers floating around on the bottom of the sea just waiting to strike?
I for one will hazzard a guess that they do indeed have hundreds of them because they are very cheap to build and maintain versus a Nuke sub.
Small crew and very quiet, slow yes, deadly very yes, cheap we are talking WalMart of the Navies of the world here.

As you said above nobody knows how they did it and therefore they will be able to do it anytime they please.
Japan needs no protecting as far as I am concerned here when is the last time Japan was under attack?
I believe it was us doing the attacking on Japan.....
This protectionism of the world has got to stop and soon, Let Iran go nuclear just like the US Canada and lots of others not to mention israel whom have never admitted to Nukes but we all know they have them.

Back to my point......If they do a war there in the straight there is no doubt at all it will involve China and Russia, all logistics go out the window when you start talking rubber subs and migs.

I really mean this when I say I wish the higher ups would just knock it off with the war drums.
Regards, Iwinder