The Master Programmer

reply to post by westcoast


To be honest, I have had that thought too

Its an interesting and also - sometimes - easier to understand how it all works on that way.
But then again, the master who made us, where did that being come from?

Is that being, the only, real being?
and everything else is just 'data'?

The programmer theory is viable but it doesn't require God. From a more logical standpoint, we are programmed by the ancient ancestors of..ourselves. There is a clear cycle here. We're approaching the technological thresh-hold via computers to simulate the human brain; and eventually we'll be able to simulate the universe (& more).

Go take a look at the simulated reality theory. It might be in the nature of human consciousness to perpetuate creation cycles. Who knows where we go after death, or when/if we escape death by way of biological/technological immortality.

Excellent Post. This can correlate with the Simulation Argument, a theory which also states there might be a "Master Programmer", or Super Mind...

www.simulation-argument.com...

OneLove

Thank you for ALL the comments. Seriously. You certainly don't have to agree with me. I enjoy reading all of the different viewpoints and aspects. I believe I can learn from it all, whether it is the same view as mine or not.

The debator in me (I'm actually decent at a good debate) is wanting to pick up the rope on so many aspects. But you know what? I didn't start this thread to debate anything....just to share. My goal isn't to change anyones mind or opinion. I would never succeed. Hence....a losing debate.

I think those that share a similar view of the world and our creator will read the OP and go "ahhhhh".....I would like to stress that while I use the term 'programmer' and talk about computers and hackers, these are all analogies. I am simply trying to put it into terms that we can relate to.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and/or beliefs. I don't claim to have 'the' answer....but perhaps just a way of looking at one of the peices to a magnificent puzzle!

reply to post by westcoast

to go along with your thread about dna and some ideas on your theory, the dna of the body as a program, that runs the physical body, god would create this program the way it is for a reason, the possibility or the event of weaknesses would also have been programmed in as well.

the life we experience would be for a purpose, now how you view your life, would be the views you have formulated and your beliefs, but still the process that is designed into our bodies would still run, regardless of our beliefs.

without the weaknesses you talk about, for example you mention viruses hacking into our dna and making it crash etc, even without that our life spans are still short regardless, and so the purpose of this life would be reached even if through age.

god would of allowed the possibility of viruses and ageing in this creation, otherwise he would of made us immune
to such things.

the process would be designed this way for a purpose, while we experience this reality or creation, we would still be moving towards a designated designed purpose, this would be why the weaknesses are installed in the dna, as the master programmer would not be using this faulty dna for no reason.

the purpose would be something you would come to one day or another, and then find out why things are the way they are, in your beliefs this process that was put in place by the master programmer would direct you to jesus, who would then take you on to the next part of your journey, in your beliefs it would be eternal life, when your time was right.

your beliefs would fit well with the way this world seems to operate, though people disagree on beliefs the master programmer would have no problem with peoples beliefs, as beliefs would also already be a part of the program or this world, used to direct you on your course through this world, and its purpose of where it takes you.

One simple question, if we are indeed too complex to be the result of 4 1/2 billion years of evolution... Who programmed the programmer? If we are too complex, then the entity that 'created' us must be infinitely more complex, and thus, by your logic, would also require a 'programmer'. That programmer would also require an infinitely more complex programmer, and so on, and so on...

We have yet to invent a computer that is more complex than our brains, but we have already digitized the entire human genome, thus your premise is flawed... While it is complex, it is not that complex, and it is also not the most complex DNA on the planet, the highest being the Aquatic Rat, and the Crab Eating Rat amongst the mammalian population. Source.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
One simple question, if we are indeed too complex to be the result of 4 1/2 billion years of evolution... Who programmed the programmer? If we are too complex, then the entity that 'created' us must be infinitely more complex, and thus, by your logic, would also require a 'programmer'. That programmer would also require an infinitely more complex programmer, and so on, and so on...

We have yet to invent a computer that is more complex than our brains, but we have already digitized the entire human genome, thus your premise is flawed... While it is complex, it is not that complex, and it is also not the most complex DNA on the planet, the highest being the Aquatic Rat, and the Crab Eating Rat amongst the mammalian population. Source.

Well said, unfortunately you know the answer that is coming. You know this answer is going to make no sense, because the answer is illogical.

reply to post by novastrike81


What answer would that be? Because I certainly don't have one.

I think that there are some questions better left unknown.

reply to post by westcoast


So you agree that if there was a 'programmer', that there would a 'programmer' who programmed the 'programmer'???

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by westcoast

 

So you agree that if there was a 'programmer', that there would a 'programmer' who programmed the 'programmer'???

This assumes the programmer exists within the same dimension, the same universe, with the same set of laws and rules... If the programmer programmed the laws and rules themselves he would exist entirely outside of the paradigm in a way we can't understand since we only really have experience in 3d? Perhaps one in which we are a projection of His thoughts and He is a projection of the paradigm which (like some scientists view matter in. Our universe) always existed and cannot be destroyed.

There are even different ways that can be speculated for both evolution and creation to exist.
1)universe evolved and advanced alien beings used genetic manipulation to "create" existence of the human race, explaining why there is the "missing link" between multiple species in every mammal
2)A God produced creation. creation being an adjective a process that isnt done and that is including evolving.
3)God created the conditions for our reality and he Himself somehow evolved From a higher dimension, either His own, or falling from one higher than Him.
4)We evolved out of given dimension as a side effect of a higher dimensions action whether intentional or not and multiple universes perhaps are created as a side effect of this "God"

There are many possibilities of reality being a form of an illusion, a simulation, a dream that I have already discussed on this thread.

I believe the film given, particularly the last 10minutes is great evidence against the evolution theory. Can someone give me the proof or evidence that God doesn't exist? This is not a rhetorical question,I am interested in seeing any evidence that can be produced, or else something contradicting the conclusions given using informational sciences to determine the given probabilities that make evolution "infeasable"

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
One simple question, if we are indeed too complex to be the result of 4 1/2 billion years of evolution... Who programmed the programmer? If we are too complex, then the entity that 'created' us must be infinitely more complex, and thus, by your logic, would also require a 'programmer'. That programmer would also require an infinitely more complex programmer, and so on, and so on...

We have yet to invent a computer that is more complex than our brains, but we have already digitized the entire human genome, thus your premise is flawed... While it is complex, it is not that complex, and it is also not the most complex DNA on the planet, the highest being the Aquatic Rat, and the Crab Eating Rat amongst the mammalian population. Source.

Well said, unfortunately you know the answer that is coming. You know this answer is going to make no sense, because the answer is illogical.

If we "evolved" and a human can produce a computer program, who created the programmer?mYour belief is clearly evolution, but regardless, you prove it's possible for a more complex life form to exist outside of a program, that has an entirely different set of rules than the program itself. Perhaps the computer program will be self aware at some time. What created the programmer? In the context of your beliefs, evolution created us and we sre able to create a program which may be self evolving one day and create on its own. But what created our programmer? Undoubtedly if there is such a programmer we don't know. Will pacman ever step outside of the game and understand his maker and see the 3 dimensions? Even if he is created as self aware? Of course not, he cant break through the confines of the microchips or computer screen.mbut certainly we can speculate and conceptualize the idea that a maker governed by a 4th, 5th,6th,7th,etc dimension will not have the same rules. In theory there are between as many as 10-12 dimensions that are theoretically possible depending on how you conceptualize it and who you ask.
www.tenthdimension.com...

Different dimensions exist different possibilities for different theories of existence.
The key not mentioned in this thread but mentioned by the video is the information science that deems evolution infeasable or operationally impossible.

Originally posted by ypperst
reply to post by westcoast

 

To be honest, I have had that thought too

Its an interesting and also - sometimes - easier to understand how it all works on that way.
But then again, the master who made us, where did that being come from?

Is that being, the only, real being?
and everything else is just 'data'?

This question is difficult because if a programmer programmed a "PACMAN" iN this reality, the PAC man would never fully understand the depths of 3 dimensions even if it were made self aware. Even though this artificial intelligence could not be a life form in 2dimensions given the current laws of the universe as we currently know them, it could still theoretically be made self aware.
Suppose that program was so advanced that it could even interact with it's own code as well as naturally adapt and evolve... Well given that this pacman could evolve, regardless of what instrument he uses, he is nevr going to be able to understand his maker aside from theory...
Now eventually the pacman could even create his own "life" and create new branches of artificial intelligence which could've then learn to produce their versions of artificial intelligence. Ultimately you could even make simulations o a 2d screen to carry the properties of a 3d world but the pacman would not know 3d nor anything "outside of the box". There is no possible way you could get a 2d life form to enter the 3d world and really understand it nor any of it's self created simulations.

Even if you could, it's possible that the programmer doesn't even understand where it came from and has it's own 3-d or 4-d version of ATS and is posing the same questions.

reply to post by secretbonus


None of that changes the original premise, which is that we are too complex to not be the result of intelligent design, and if so, then whoever designed us must be MORE complex than we are, and thus would require a designer of his/her/its own... this sets up an endless series of 'programmers'...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


You are thinking inside a box

Sometimes you have to step out of it and realize that you just don't have an answer

reply to post by westcoast

the "box" is made up of little squares or screens, over your field of vision.

reply to post by westcoast


I am using the exact same logic being used to argue that there is a 'programmer'... my own thoughts on Divinity are WAY outside the box...