Lee County Deputies Pepper Spray Man to Death

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by againuntodust

 

No. I don't consider Fox news to be a real source.

You obviously don't know much about reason......

I agree, fox is media sensation....not news.
Does anyone out there have a real link?

Originally posted by ToneDeaf
_______________________

another source here :
www.naplesnews.com...

Thank you for the link.
This article does not mention the number of times the dude was sprayed.

Given the fact that the man was already in custody, and restrained, even if its not considered "criminal", I would say his relatives have a very good civil case of gross negligence.

Any officer that has been properly certified in OC should know better. Its part of the training, when you pull out that can, you know there is a possibility of medical attention being needed.

Oh my..this is an outrage..I simply don't have words for the anger and sadness I feel. PLEASE someone with some authority in Lee county..take these officers/criminals who did this to this man...and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the Law. We need to follow this story and watch for the results because if this is what America has come to...In my mind this is war on the citizenry of the U.S.

County/State Police were given training and free software by the Federal Government via HomeLand Security Grants to 'see' people on the internet, and come after you. They can get into your computer. They can hear you through your mic. They can see you through your webcam. They can place keyloggers on your computer to get passwords/ bank account data....and really make your life he!!.


My advice to you all is to not comment on this thread. For you and your families safety.

Amerika is now a fascist police state. Tools have been handed to people who will do you harm.

If they want to pepperspray someone to death, they will do it.

Cruel and Unusual Punishment is no longer a part of the US Bill of Rights to Protect you.

In my sleepy little town there was a big thing a while back where a woman was handcuffed to a chair and tazed repeatedly. It left burns where the cuffs were. The officers were suspended. Point is what happened to this lee county man could have happened to this woman. Probably happens everyday somewhere in this country. (maybe no death caused, but the abuse of power)
Also I used to watch this show called Jail (may have been called jailed) and I was shocked seeing what ''typical practices'' were. Even when officers show restraint it appears overkill from an outside point of view. Don't get me wrong, if someone is an obvious danger to themselves or others the restraint chair, spit masks and tasers may be useful but not when you use more than one of those things at a time. If someone is in the restraint chair you don't need to taze them as well, or for that matter use the spit mask (doesn't hurt but if I were in a meltdown it sure wouldn't help me calm down.) ...I mean once you're restrained the worst you can do is make alot of noise which doesn't really hurt anyone it's just annoying.
This by far doesn't represent every officer but I'll bet almost anything every department has at lest one sadistic person willing to do these things.

Just found the same article on sott.net

I am gutted for the man and his wife. This is totally unacceptable. As a former Police officer you do not repeatedly spray a person who is strapped to a chair - they are not a threat.

What really upsets me is reading that the Police were found to have done nothing wrong! That is wrong. I would love to see the interviews after the event - the security camera footage within the Police station and I would not stop until I found out exactly what happened.

This is a viral story - the public need to see that this is a real occurrance and could happen to anyone. The story needs to be viral and the gentlemans wife needs to use the legal service in whatever way she can - justice will not be served until a Police officer or Police officers are found guilty. The man did not tie himself into the chair and spray himself with pepper spray.

Why do I keep reading these stories - about Police brutality in America. This story appears real and that is what make sit so horrifying. The Police involved have behaved in a most appalling manner and should be charged and tried as soon as possible. Evil in uniforms - disgusting.

Much Peace...to the man murdered by those who were supposed to serve and PROTECT...

reply to post by Amanda5


So you would agree with me on my previous post of.....

Given the fact that the man was already in custody, and restrained, even if its not considered "criminal", I would say his relatives have a very good civil case of gross negligence.

Any officer that has been properly certified in OC should know better. Its part of the training, when you pull out that can, you know there is a possibility of medical attention being needed.

My main question is I'm not sure
1. if all local PD are OC certified (my LE experience is military, so not sure about the civilian side)
2. what level of certification is required

reply to post by vogon42


My training - in Australia - should not be too different to America. A lot of Australian Policing to my knowledge comes from the American.

When you decide to use your spray - you must not spray straight on the face as in directly into the eyes or mouth or nose - without 30cms distance between the person and the bottle - where possible - if you are actually in a physically confronting situation. You must have some distance from the bottle to the area of contact.

Whether the person is a civilian or a prisoner - you must - call for the ambulance to come and decontaminate - particularly if it was a bit busy - with several offenders and Police doing their best - if you get the picture. At no time would you use your spray on a person who is tied to a chair. The person must be a threat - you don't assess the situation as needing your firearm - you can use your spray to subdue the person.

During my training there was a Sergeant who relayed the story of a person who swallowed the spray - sprayed it right into his throat - he died.

Capsicum pepper spray is issued to Police because it is a non lethal option. It does not kill people. On very rare occassions it can affect an asthma sufferer - however - that is why part of the procedure is to call for the medical personnel to decontaminate. At the very least you offer the offender the option of a running tap to wash themselves or a bucket of water. It is part of the training to offer the water.

It will - when used properly - make a very violent person cry like a literal baby - snot pours out their nose - they cry and are generally very uncomfortable and their focus turns to the pain they are suffering and not the pain they were going to cause.

For civilians who have one in their pocket or handbag - I cannot comment on the criteria for use - local legislation would need to be researched.

The gentleman in this story - should not have died - should not have had his face covered and should have received medical care from the ambos - as per the procedure in Australia. He should only have been sprayed once - twice at most and the fact that he was tied to a chair suggests he was incapable of defending himself.

Much Peace...to the gentleman murdered ...

How is it popssible that the DA's office found these Officers cleared of any wrong doing?? Are they serious? Obviously they must be, but this is just a complete outrage. I realize the guy was drunk and more than likely was acting like a complete jerk, but he does not deserve to be tortured and die for it.

Let us not sugar coat this. He was TORTURED. Restraining someone to a chair, placing a mask over their head, and using pepper spray to cut off air and cause them to choke until they die, is torture.

Originally posted by Amanda5
reply to post by vogon42

 

My training - in Australia - should not be too different to America. ....

OK, now I'm curious

When you decide to use your spray - you must not spray straight on the face as in directly into the eyes or mouth or nose - without 30cms distance between the person and the bottle

Is that using stream, spray, or foam. At that little of a distance stream could easily cause the "hypodermic needle effect" (30cm = 12 inches....approx)

Whether the person is a civilian or a prisoner - you must - call for the ambulance to come and decontaminate -

Interesting....actually not part of my training, but then again military vs. civilian.

For civilians who have one in their pocket or handbag - I cannot comment on the criteria for use - local legislation would need to be researched.

At least here in the US, the stuff that is available to the general public is not the same strength as that issued to LE or Military


The certification I obtained in the military required me to be sprayed, and run an obstacle course.
Is that the same for your certification.
Certification also lists 3 levels of contamination

being in a room where OC was used
coming into contact with someone who was sprayed
and
being directly sprayed yourself
(sorry, dont remember if being directly sprayed was considered level 1 or level 3)
Were you given an option as to the level of contamination for your certification?

Are your officers required to be OC certified before they are allowed to carry OC?

Originally posted by MrWendal
How is it popssible that the DA's office found these Officers cleared of any wrong doing??....

Just because they were cleared of any criminal charges, does not mean they can not be tried in civil court.
(BTW: from what little info I have on the situation, I do not see how they were cleared of criminal charges)

reply to post by vogon42

Hello.

The training for use of capsicum spray was for every student Police officer. Technically we were academic based Students so we were not allowed to be sprayed - our instructor was sprayed - demonstrated how to continue to defend yourself - then they were decontaminated.

There are no levels - every operational officer from Constable up was issued a spray for their appointment belt. It was a case of shake it up before the start of every shift and when you use it - only with some distance but recommended arms length or 30cms (have to check my old textbooks). Whenever it was used we called the ambulance officers or at least permitted prisoners to stick their head under a running tap. My old pocket guide states..seek medical assistance from ambulance or hospital casualty staff, as a matter of course.

It was recommended two short bursts but obviously in some circumstances more may be needed - some drug addicts who are full of drugs may not slow down. I recall an officer telling me about a schedule (psychiatric patient) who had gone off tap and was threatening people with knives - he was full of psychotropic medication and he emptied his spray - appropriately - and the guy kept coming. So - one or two sprays should work - it is an option to lethal force that is all - meant only to render a person to a state where they are not a threat and can be arrested in an appropriate manner.

I was grateful for the option - I mean really - who wants to shoot someone - that is always an absolute last resort as a Police officer & only in life threatening situations.

Even if you only use your spray once you have to hand it in for a replacement. It was a spray bottle and I recall it came out as a spray and not a stream. Hope that answers your questions. The gentleman who is the focus of this thread - would not have been treated the way he was in Australia - officers have it drummed into them that when they cross the line - they can be charged the same as a civilian - I have seen it happen and I have seen an officer lose the case and his career. I always tried to treat people with respect - remembering they are human - although when you see what some can do to Children and Animals - you start to wonder whether some people are not human.

Much Peace...

reply to post by Amanda5


Thanks for the info!
I see a number of differences, just not sure it that is US vs Australia, or Civilian vs Military, but it was very insightful, and much appreciated.


If this story holds true, I'll bet we find out these officers were either NOT certified, or not properly certified. It thats the case, their butts are in a ringer if taken into civil court.

reply to post by Cobra.EXE


Excellent post

The information I am posting, hope it is helpful.

The District 21 Medical Examiner ruled his death was a homicide because he had been restrained and sprayed with pepper sprayed by law enforcement officers. But to this day, nobody has ever been charged with a crime, and the Lee County State Attorney cleared the sheriff's office of any wrong doing.

It's been more than two and a half years and his wife still can't accept what happened.

"I was shocked. This was something out of a horror movie," says Joyce Christie. She said her husband was depressed and was showing signs of erratic behavior a few days before leaving for Florida.

She called authorities and pleaded with them to take her husband to a hospital and be given his medications. Instead, he was taken to jail for disorderly intoxication.

Her lawsuit alleges he was pepper sprayed 10 times over a 48-hour period, at times while in a restraint chair.

Monshay Gibbs was a deputy trainee at the jail at the time. In a video deposition, she testified that she thought the way Nick Christie was treated was excessive.

"He had a spit mask on and was naked," she said on the video while under oath. Gibbs testified that Christie pleaded with guards to take off the spit mask because he couldn't breathe.

source: reason.com...

Tying an American Citizen to a chair and pepper spraying them multiple times and having said person die from this procedure is murder in the first degree and abuse of police power in my book.

There are very few responses compared to the seriousness of this incident. That in and of itself is disturbing and if more people do not unite and demand the end of police brutality and that applicants for police work are not screened more carefully, this will escalate............it already is becoming a common problem.

This clearly is torture, leading up to murder.

Clearly a case of excessive police brutality.

No one should be tortured this way and put to death, this is wrong on so many levels.

Now for anyone out there that says, "I don't care" or "so what, this doesn't affect me"......this very well could affect you at a later date.

This is absolutely wrong on so many levels.

We must demand accountability from our law enforcement officers.

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


See my post.

Than do the research yourself..............don't sit back and let others do the work for you.

Good Search................a penny for every search goes to your favorite charity.

Yes, in multiple papers this has been documented.

Year by year, decade by decade we are seeing a rise in police brutality.

Some people that are attracted to this occupation are true heroes, they really want to serve and protect. But, some, far too many now days seem to have a mean, egotistical, power hungry streak in them and this must be stopped.

Those out there that say, I don't care, this doesn't affect me..............well, get a call at 2-3 AM that your brother, sister, cousin, niece, etc has just been murdered via the police and you may begin to feel differently.

Bullies are bullies and will bully as long as they are allowed.

Our system must ensure that people with bullish mentalities are not allowed the power of being a police officer.

reply to post by vogon42


Story: About 20 years ago a lady I work with said that one night she heard a commotion, groaning and screaming in pain outside her bedroom window.

Now this was before cell phones that could film.

She looked out her window and in the alley were three white police officers beating and kicking the &^%$ out of a black man, laying on the ground.

This was in the Northwest suburbs of Illinois, not a ghetto urban area.

I asked this co-worker, why didn't you report this?

Her reply was, "Who would I have called? The police? They were the ones beating the stuffing out of him. You think I want to get involved and have them come after me next?"

There is no reason what so ever for any police officer to beat a person. They have back up and two or three people can easily cuff and restrain a person.

Even tie them to a chair or bed......................but don't beat, taser or pepper spray them.

This is torture pure and simple.

Just because someone has a badge does not give them the right to be able to abuse another human being.

If the person in question is showing signs of mental instability than restraining is necessary but not torturing.

What in God's name is going on here people..................there ought to be 1,000 or more replies with people upset.

Ignore the problem and it won't go away it will come back and bite everyone who ignored the problem in the behind eventually.

Bullies don't stop bullying, they just go on to a different victim.

reply to post by Amanda5


Call for back up and have two, three, four police officers restrain him, even call a doctor to sedate him/her but there is no reason a person tied to a chair is dead from being pepper sprayed can be excused.

I was in nursing in a city hospital and worked with the police in ER................there are humane and logical ways to subdue a out of control madman/woman.

There is no excuse for the police murdering someone..............none.

This man died tied to a chair, care to justify this?

reply to post by Pervius


You very well may be right.

I am watching this type of incident escalate more and more with every decade.

See my location..............Only corporations have true power.

A corporation can get away with robbing millions of dollars, a person caught stealing a loaf of bread or pack of diapers can end up dead.

But, if people do not unite and rebel this will only get worse.

We must unite and put a stop to this tyranny or it will, I guarantee you affect each and everyone of us that are not a fraction of the 1%.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by vogon42

 

Story: About 20 years ago a lady I work with said that one night she heard a commotion, groaning and screaming in pain outside her bedroom window.

Now this was before cell phones that could film.

She looked out her window and in the alley were three white police officers beating and kicking the &^%$ out of a black man, laying on the ground.

This was in the Northwest suburbs of Illinois, not a ghetto urban area.

I asked this co-worker, why didn't you report this?

Her reply was, "Who would I have called? The police? They were the ones beating the stuffing out of him. You think I want to get involved and have them come after me next?"

There is no reason what so ever for any police officer to beat a person. They have back up and two or three people can easily cuff and restrain a person.

Even tie them to a chair or bed......................but don't beat, taser or pepper spray them.

This is torture pure and simple.

Just because someone has a badge does not give them the right to be able to abuse another human being.

If the person in question is showing signs of mental instability than restraining is necessary but not torturing.

What in God's name is going on here people..................there ought to be 1,000 or more replies with people upset.

Ignore the problem and it won't go away it will come back and bite everyone who ignored the problem in the behind eventually.

Bullies don't stop bullying, they just go on to a different victim.

edit on 7-1-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)

OK, I'm really confused. Your response (above) was based on my post of
"If this story holds true, I'll bet we find out these officers were either NOT certified, or not properly certified. It thats the case, their butts are in a ringer if taken into civil court."

Do you understand what that means? (it means, I'm saying criminal conviction or not.....they were wrong.....and should be held accountable.)

Do you know the difference between CRIMINAL and CIVIL law?

Do you have something against civil court? Are you just venting anger in the wrong direction?
My post was questioning the education of these individuals to use the equipment they are supplied with......as in.....I do NOT believe they have been properly educated to use this particular equipment.

I have stopped many LEO's from making stupid decisions.

And have helped many under my command realize if they are wearing a badge, or if they are letting the badge wear them.

btk by police
(bound tortured killed)
and go figure, not only do they get away with it,
but there will be no criminal charges.

there should be riots over this kind of stuff
police simply are getting away with too much (any is too much)
and get more and more power


every time something like this happens
more cops think they can get away with it