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Will Ron Paul kill the caucuses?

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posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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Well, Well, Well...

Here is a beautiful (/sarcasm) propaganda piece about Ron Paul's electability. Do these people even take into account what they are doing to democracy?

Notice the use of the word "elites"?




SIOUX CITY, IOWA –The alarms are sounding in Iowa.

Conservatives and Republican elites in the state are divided over who to support for the GOP nomination, but they almost uniformly express concern over the prospect that Ron Paul and his army of activist supporters may capture the state’s 2012 nominating contest — an outcome many fear would do irreparable harm to the future role of the first-in-the-nation caucuses.

In spin rooms, bar rooms and online forums, the what-to-do-about-Paul conversation has become pervasive as polls show him at or near the top here just weeks before the January 3rd vote.

“It would make the caucuses mostly irrelevant if not entirely irrelevant,” said Becky Beach, a longtime Iowa Republican who helped Presidents Bush 41 and Bush 43 here. “It would have a very damaging effect because I don’t think he could be elected president and both Iowa and national Republicans wouldn’t think he represents the will of voters.”

“They’ll all go back and vote for Obama,” predicted Beach.




Really??? - and who the hell are you to decide that?



What especially worries Iowa Republican regulars is the possibility that Paul could win here on January 3rd with the help of Democrats and independents who change their registration to support the libertarian-leaning Texas congressman but then don’t support the GOP nominee next November.


I agree this is a reason for concern for all conservative voters...

But... I'm not voting simply to remove Obama from office.

I'm voting Ron Paul because he is the best candidate for America!
edit on 12/20/2011 by tothetenthpower because: --Mod Edit--EXE tags




posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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I hope he sticks it to them. We've watched our elected officials send thousands of our troops to die and murder millions of easterners many of whom were civilians. Foreign policy is probably number 1 reason i'm voting for paul. Many don't like his policy, but i'd call those people war mongers or people that are easily controlled by the media. Let Israel back its own talk, let the Afghans sell their own heroin, lets find oil a more respectable way. Down with the corrupt war machine bull# we've been putting up with for some many decades RONPAUL2012!

we don't have to buy their bs! If ron wins the cacuas doesnt count!? What about when he owns obama? Will obama stays prez because Ron don't count?
edit on 20-12-2011 by biggmoneyme because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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The government machine is running scared. The people are waking up and they (the machine) see there power slipping away as Ron Paul gains popularity
edit on 20-12-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by freakjive
 


You guys are pretty naive to think Ron Paul stands a fighting chance. Money buys election. Ron Paul wasted millions for nothing. Obama is backed by big banks. Obama keeps the people complacent in matters of hope and change. He's already bought the election.

Accept the fact that Ron Paul is a loser in the process. It's a done deal. 2012 is Obama.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by freakjive


I'm voting Ron Paul because he is the best candidate for America!


Exactly. This whole "get Obaaaama out of office" (as heard by that Bachmann goat) is a horrible obsession.

I am one current Obama supporter who is rooting for Dr. Paul and will not be pulling my support from him come election day. I will proudly vote for a GOP candidate for the first time in my life. It is not because I do not like Obama, it is because I like Dr. Paul.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by RightWingAvenger
Accept the fact that Ron Paul is a loser in the process. It's a done deal. 2012 is Obama.


I'll accept it if it happens. The fact is there is still a lot of time between now and the 2012 election and with his current track record, we can fully expect Obama to further tank with the American public. Face it...Bush was terrible but Obama is WORSE!

That being said, you're entitled to your opinion, as deluded as it may be.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


But what if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination...will you still vote for the GOP candidate?


This is what the GOP leaders are afraid of....Ron Paul supporters are going to bring in what looks like a surge of support in the GOP...but when he doesn't get the nomination, those people aren't there to support the eventual GOP nominee.

The primary/caucuses are a PARTY event...it's to get all your members together and say "who should we nominate?"...but there is always the understanding that "whoever we nominate, we will all support". The only GOP candidate that doesn't hold true for right now is Ron Paul...if he doesn't win...his supporters won't support the other GOP candidates.

So the GOP leaders are rightly considering if they should even consider Ron Paul as a GOP candidate.


I personally love it...it's causing chaos...and since I'm an Obama supporter...GO RON PAUL.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Cuervo
 


But what if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination...will you still vote for the GOP candidate?




Absolutely not. I would take Obama any day over the remaining GOP candidates, mistakes and all. Of course, we don't know who all will be running on the DNC side but I will definitely not be voting GOP if Paul's not in it.

There are many lefties like me who feel the same. I honestly think Dr. Paul is the only chance for GOP to get a guy in there but he's not in the Good Ole' Boy's club so they feel like they are in a lose-lose scenario. Which they are. Which is great.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Even though I dislike the current systems of the world,I do agree that America's best bet within it would be Ron Paul,because from what I saw he actually speaks the truth and stands up for the people,unlike the rest that seem to be competing for the next chance to continue the puppet work of Obama,and fill his seat.

On the other hand I fear that if he does get elected he might be assassinated in a much more vicious way then JFK was in my opinion...



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by RightWingAvenger
 


I would like to offer this comment found on a related article in rebuttal:




posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


But this is the reason they will discredit any win he has.

They know that Ron Paul isn't supported by Republicans...people like you and others are exploiting the system by changing your party to vote for someone who really isn't representative of that parties views.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they don't have the delegates honor Ron Paul wins. And since most of the primaries are "non-binding"...the end decision still ends with the Republican Party officials of that state.


Ron Paul has a good chance of showing well at Iowa...I don't see many other states where he can repeat though. Candidates have the ability to flood Iowa, because it is first...but after that it is rapid fire and then super tuesday doesn't allow you to organize well in ALL of those states on the same day.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by freakjive
 




Just wow.


So, if the polling says the people are supporting him, and the caucus says the people are supporting him, and the money says the people are supporting him, and the military is supporting him, and conservatives like Judge Napolitano are supporting him, and the other candidates are stealing from his platform and making it their own, and stating they agree with him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, then they are all wrong? That lady is ludicrous! Outrageous! Treasonous!!

Basically, everyone is saying that Ron Paul has the right ideas, at the right time, and that he is the real deal, with the history to back it up, but the Republican Elite won't support him, so in fact the voters no longer matter?

Are the Republican leadership really so stupid to tell the voters openly that their opinion doesn't count?

When did it become a bad thing to support a candidate and stump for him and influence the polls? Isn't this what politics is all about, but when the support is for Ron Paul it somehow becomes an evil thing?

This whole election will be historic one way or another. It will either be the election where the voters take back power from the establishment, or it will be the election where the establishment completely ignores the will of the voters and does what it wants and becomes the next Lexington/Concord, and leads to the next great nation on this continent, because this government will have become entirely defunct!



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

They know that Ron Paul isn't supported by Republicans...people like you and others are exploiting the system by changing your party to vote for someone who really isn't representative of that parties views.

I have to disagree, at least in the larger scheme of things. You only have to go back to 1999 to find a winning republican candidate running pretty much on Paul's foreign policy platform - which is exactly what Bush 2.0 did, and is one of the reasons they actually elected him.

Then everyone got scared because of one day, and entirely lost their minds. Republican insanity is exactly what drove a good many of us OUT of the political process with a feeling of disenfranchisement, and Paul is bringing us back (my parents are life-long republicans, as were my grandparents. I supported Bush in 2000, to my shame. Now we all support Paul).

Neoconservatism is NOT a typically-republican view (actually having more in common with legacy democratic views on interventionsim and racism), and is not the sole current viewpoint of the republican party. I can't speak for all as I know Paul DOES draw a lot of independents and some democrats, but me and mine want OUR party back - Paul espoused the old right republicanism of Taft and others, before the party lost its mind.

Take care, friend.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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I live in Iowa and know very well how the state's GOP will handle this issue.

This state is very evangelical, anti-gay rights, anti-Muslim and pro-establishment. They voted for Huckabee in the last election. There has been talk going around for some time that Iowa will lose it's "first in the nation" status for just those reasons. While the Iowa GOP tries to hold onto the first in the nation vote, they are scrambling to ensure they nominate someone such as Romney so they will fall in line with the rest of the GOP across the US.

RP does have the votes to win Iowa. I have no doubt. But it would not surprise me if the GOP blows-off his win and doesn't allow his delgates to participate.

What we will see here is the Iowa GOP will suppress RP votes for purely political reasons and the establishment will win again. We all will finally know for sure, and have proof to back it up, that our votes are only good when the paradigm is maintained. If we deviate from it, and vote for RP, our vote will be tossed out as a vote for lunacy.
edit on 20-12-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by freakjive
 




Just wow.


So, if the polling says the people are supporting him,

Not really. Polls say he's one of the three or four top contenders -- not THE front runner by 20 points. A lot of the cited polls showing him out in front have problems with the population (conducted on Internet, for instance, where people not eligible to vote can vote multiple times or polls of specialty events.)


and the caucus says the people are supporting him,

There are actually a lot of different caucuses run throughout the year, and they're often targeted to make one politician or another look like a winner. The actual state caucuses won't begin until January, and internet/polling reports may not reflect who shows up. That said, I think he'll take one of the two top spots in Iowa.


and the money says the people are supporting him,

He's apparently third among the Republicans. Obama's raised a lot more than all three of the Republican front runners. source: elections.nytimes.com...


and the military is supporting him,

I don't believe you can speak for the whole military here. Some do, some support other candidates.


Basically, everyone is saying that Ron Paul has the right ideas, at the right time, and that he is the real deal, with the history to back it up, but the Republican Elite won't support him, so in fact the voters no longer matter?

Not everyone thinks he has the right ideas, including a lot of the Republicans. Tea Party members certainly think he does, but they're sort of on the outs with Republicans right now.


Are the Republican leadership really so stupid to tell the voters openly that their opinion doesn't count?

Paul is not exactly the standard Republican. I think frankly he'd do better if he was running as an independent, however he would lack the Republican war chest that will be given to the nominated winner. And that's a lot of money for a campaign.

But they're not going to throw it to someone who supports only part of the current party platform. If he was 100% behind everything the party wants to do, he'd have a better chance.


This whole election will be historic one way or another. It will either be the election where the voters take back power from the establishment, or it will be the election where the establishment completely ignores the will of the voters and does what it wants and becomes the next Lexington/Concord, and leads to the next great nation on this continent, because this government will have become entirely defunct!

I don't think either scenario is likely.

We voters do sit through times when other voters cancel out our votes (I voted against Bush every single time he ran -- but more people voted for him.) Power constantly shifts. In the past 30 years there have been several semi-successful third party runs, but the real issue here is that third parties seem to have little ability to organize on a national level.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by Byrd
 


I know the polls are skewed, and I rarely agree with them, but at the current moment all of the polls are showing Ron Paul in the top 2 spots, and surging. When all the polls agree, they are hard to discount.


I don't believe you can speak for the whole military here. Some do, some support other candidates.


When it comes to campaign contributions from the military, Ron Paul is at least 300% ahead of any other candidate, including Obama. This may or may not equate to actual votes though.


Not everyone thinks he has the right ideas, including a lot of the Republicans. Tea Party members certainly think he does, but they're sort of on the outs with Republicans right now.


I disagree on this point, because every other candidate on the radar has slowly incorporated a large part of Ron Paul's platform. Candidates often refer to his ideas during the debates. Of course, nobody (including me) agrees with him 100% of the way on anything, but I believe if you look at all of the major candidates now, compared to a few months ago, you'll see that all of them have evolved over to RP's way of thinking on many of the major issues, and this is evidence of the power of his platform.


We voters do sit through times when other voters cancel out our votes (I voted against Bush every single time he ran -- but more people voted for him.) Power constantly shifts. In the past 30 years there have been several semi-successful third party runs, but the real issue here is that third parties seem to have little ability to organize on a national level.


Whether or not Bush had more votes is debatable!


But, I'm not talking about losing an election. I'm talking about a situation where RP is a clear favorite with top tier finishes in many of the primaries and caucuses, and campaign funds that rival all his competitors, and clear support from conservative republicans, as well as independents, blue dog democrats, and 3rd party franchises, and RP emerges as clearly the best adversary for Obama, and then he still doesn't get the nomination.

That is the scenario I expect to see happen. I think the election will be between two puppets, and it will be another "lesser of two evils" choice as all the previous elections have been, and it will be evidence that we have lost our country to the corporate oligarchy.

I voted "against" Gore and Kerry, and I voted "against" McCain. I haven't been able to actually vote "for" a candidate in my lifetime. It would be nice to have a candidate up on stage that I could actually support, instead of just praying the most dangerous of the 2 is not elected, and being forced to use my vote to hedge against the worst-case scenario.

If RP falls apart of his own doing, then I will soften my stance, but I think he will dominate, all through the primary season, and I think he will still be overlooked by the establishment, and I think it will result in a re-election of Obama, and I think our Republic can be officially declared dead at that point.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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If nothing else comes of his run at the nomination, he has already done the country a great service.
He's making people think and reevaluate what this country stands for and where it should be headed rather than where it is headed.

If nothing else he has shown that there are many like minded individuals that are tired of the status quo. That after the last decade, the majority of Americans DO NOT want more wars. That bank bailouts do nothing but help those who created some of the issues we face.

Sometimes the biggest part of the journy is the first step and these things need to be discussed. Not by TPTB during a debate, but by a fringe person(s) with the backbone to do so.

- The country's eventual awakening may take years to come but I am hopeful that it continues to move forward.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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I think you have a valid point. The caucus system is very much subject to activist manipulation. I participated in the caucus last election cycle. One thing you can say about RP supportes is that they are very well organized. By that I mean their heirarchy is in place and they are well-trained on how to overwhelm a system, whether it be a caucus or a state convention. I witnessed this clear through to the state convention.

This was very true at the convention where the Paulistas used procedural tricks in an attempt to take over the convention. Because ours was not the first state convention and RP's supporters had tried similar things elsewhere, the PTB were ready for them so it didn't happen.

The thing about the caucus system is that it is very small and really can only accommodate a small number of people at once. It's not like mailing in a ballot for a primary election, where many more people can participate. If Paul does well in the caucuses, which I fully expect, my guess is the PTB will dump the caucuses in gavor of a primary election where RP's organizational talents won't be as powerful a force.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by RightWingAvenger
 


With an attitude of why do anything because everything is a done deal. Can't never did do nothing as they say. That is like why live when the end result is death. Why go to work, why buy a home, why get married, why have kids? After all its a done deal. I for one refuse to give up before it s over.



posted on Dec, 20 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Why would we vote for any GOP candidate?

I thought it was clear that Ron Paul supporters, for the most part, aren't loyal to any party. We're loyal to the idea that the government is too big, too wasteful, TOO corrupt and something needs to be done.

So quit playing the party game, I don't care about the GOP, at all.




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