Det3/AFFTC Base Commanders, page 1
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reply posted on 10-12-2011 @ 01:50 PM by Vandalour
reply to post by Cosmic911


What source did you use to find those names ?
I would belive people working in "area 51" used cover names, only work on a small part of a bigger project so nobody really know whats going on except a few, witch names we will never find on any list.


reply posted on 10-12-2011 @ 01:55 PM by Cosmic911
Originally posted by Vandalour
reply to post by Cosmic911


What source did you use to find those names ?
I would belive people working in "area 51" used cover names, only work on a small part of a bigger project so nobody really know whats going on except a few, witch names we will never find on any list.


I doubt AFFTC leadership utilized "cover names" once operations were transferred from CIA to USAF. Yes, certain workers, like T.D. Barnes, utilized code names while working at Area 51 under the CIA. (This might explain the noticeable gap in commanders while the facility was run by CIA)

Once operations were transferred to AFFTC, there is a very legitimate and easily traceable chain of command leading back to Edwards AFB, since they operate AFFTC.
edit on 10-12-2011 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-12-2011 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 10-12-2011 @ 05:53 PM by Cosmic911
Originally posted by gariac
Nice detective work!

The military likes ceremonies, and change of command is no exception. I would assume these ceremonies are done at EDW since that is the main base. If so, I suspect quite a few people outside of Groom Lake know the name of the base commander.

The warning signs say you need permission from the base commander to cross the border. Well gee, maybe they should publish the name, else how can I ask?

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I think the CIA has set up their CREST server so you can get documents online as PDFs. I'm checking with someone to make sure I'm not confused with the other CIA document server. Or perhaps they merged servers. Anyway, you can search for those names and see if they crop up.

At the moment, the server is offline. I noticed all the old documents that I have copied and put on my website are not online, but stuff from the 80s forward is there.

www.foia.cia.gov...


Hey gariac!

I would also assume the transfer of command occurs at Edwards, since that's where AFFTC is administered from. I imagine things might have been a little more "secretive during the CIA's days at Groom but since the USAF assumed control, I imagine the chain of command and leadership structure is similar to other high-security R&D facilities operated by the Air Force.

By all means, hijack the thread! I've never heard of the CREST server. Please elaborate.


The warning signs say you need permission from the base commander to cross the border. Well gee, maybe they should publish the name, else how can I ask?


You're killing me!! Haha



reply posted on 10-12-2011 @ 08:34 PM by gariac
reply to post by Cosmic911


Unfortunately the server is still offline.

In the past, the CIA has maintained two basic databases. They had an online server, and a server that you could only read at the National Archives (NARA) in College Park Md. The terminals are located on the 3rd floor (IIRC) in the library. To use the servers, you had to take a short training course by NARA. Not very hard. You watch a Power Point presentation and then answer some questions. At that point you are issued a badge to get past security.

In the library, there are two servers in cages bolted to the floor. To my knowledge, they are not connected to any CIA network. They use an "air" firewall, as in no connection at all. There are two tables with computers on them to access the servers. No CD burning. That would be too easy. Nope, just HP Laserjet printers. The CIA supplies the paper since you can't bring paper into NARA. [On the contraband list is anything with a light in it, though they allow smartphones. You can't bring a pen or pencil, since they want to minimize the chance of anyone writing on a document. The rules go on and on.] There is a domed camera over each server. The servers have a search engine. Your search activity is logged, though they don't exactly know who you are since the badge is not recorded. Now this search engine is also online, but not the documents. Thus you could at least do all your searches outside of NARA, then just show up and print the documents on the ample supply of CIA paper.

Every document has a secrecy classification on top and bottom of the page. Before you can leave with the documents, every secrecy classification has to be crossed out by hand. Some of these crash reports are like 500 pages, so this is no small task. Once you cross out the classifications, the papers are put into a pouch that is then padlocked. You leave the library with the pouch, and the security guard will unlock it so you can retrieve the papers.

I have about a two foot high pile of CIA documents. Way too much to scan. I have put selected documents on this webpage:
www.lazygranch.com...

When I was checking the CREST server last night, none of the documents I have were available online, so I suspect the CIA has simply merged their online database with the stuff only available at NARA. But I'm not certain about that. I think I will phone NARA and get a comment.

The CIA doesn't really talk to NARA as far as I know. The story I've got from different librarians at NARA is the CIA just shows up and updates the server. No notice. I assume they swap drives or PCs. and leave through a secure exit with the old drives. Perhaps they wipe them before leaving.

Now my opinion is you either declassify documents or you don't. This jumping through hoops is nonsense. You need to not only go to NARA, but pay for hotel as well. There are 3 or 4 hotels nearly that share a bus to take you to NARA. I never found parking to be an issue, even though the website says otherwise. You do need to show a badge at the guard shack, so things go a little easier on your first trip if you take the shuttle.
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