Scientific Evidence of Survival of Consciousness After Death

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Samuelis

 

What kind of evidence are you looking for? A video of the afterlife? A picture of the magic fountain?

Don't mock me. I did not put an unreasonable burden of evidence on you guys. I only ask that the evidence you give is up to par with the things that pass for fact. Personal experiences are universally excluded from being scientific evidence in every instance.

I dont know how you would "prove" NDE's, but the burden of proof rest with you. You are the one making the claim and to convince me YOU have to put forward evidence. Your evidence falls so far below par that it is only "evidence" in the very loosest of terms.

Personal experience is used as evidence all the time. This is how the court system operates. Like I said above the evidence may not be 'scientific' in so much that it does not take the form of a repeatable experiment. But when a brain dead vegetable wakes up knowing things about what happened in his or her hospital room, or stuff that happened regarding their family outside of the hospital, or even other stuff in the world far away from their bed, and these facts can be verified by independant means, this is what you call evidence. And as I've also already stated this shows many of them to be more than merely hallucinations.

I'm sure Angellicview has many examples of this up her sleeve if you want to look into it further. I myself don't care what you believe so I will not be going to any personal effort to dig them up. Someone I know fairly well once had a NDE and could describe exactly what happened to her on the operating table which was then verified by a nurse who was present. I am very logically minded and this was enough evidence for me.

Possibly the OP should be a little more cautious regarding her use of the word 'scientific', but if these NDEs are verified after the fact in a scientifically manner, then I do not see a problem. There is much scientific phenomena which cannot take the form of a repeatable experiment. I work as a geologist and we certainly don't have millions of years to prove all of our theories. I've never seen alluvial material turn into a rock, nor can we simulate plate tectonics or a volcanic eruption. And we are yet to drill down to the Earth's molten mantle to prove it actually is there.

Holy crap... i can barely make is through a single thread these days...

PEOPLE, if you don't get it, or dont agree. Make your case, maybe follow it up several times appropriately and then ya done.

Don't come into a thread thinking "oh man im gonna bash this person, oh man im gonna repeat the same SNIP over and over about how dumb they are and how I and science know errything.

Do you all realize that if this particle they found traveling faster than light is real (and it has been confirmed in multiple re-tests) that it drops the bottom out of basically ALL of physics and understood science?

Once again, we don't know SNIP.

OP, I loved this post, people are always asking for information like this about NDE's, you compiled a great list of circumstances that make me believe even more. THANK YOU.

(see?)

OH, and its actually pretty easy to experience astral events, or out of body events. My experiences are all the evidence i need, and if you aren't having these incredible experiences then maybe you should be working on something?

Find your peace of mind, try to be in the now and experience things with your eyes closed and your mind quite.

reply to post by 1littlewolf


loved your reply.

All these peeps speaking about science don't realize that scientific evidence is something that an be repeated with the same results...this is happening with every NDE.

I can understand someone who wasnt dead having a hallucination in a hospital due to chemicals flowing through the brain. But when someone is DEAD for several minutes and wakes up with knowledge about things that happened not only in the room they were dead in, but other places around the world, well that's miraculous..

I love your avatar btw, very pretty.

This is an unabashed misleading thread heading. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I find it very sad that you feel you need to lie to get people to have a look at your thread.

If what you've said in the post was written in a book, which some bits are, it wouldn't be found in the science section of a library.

How about the information from France regarding the study of people killed by the guillotine? Charlotte Corday stabbed revolutionary leader Paul Marat in his bathtub and she was sentenced to the guillotine. After her head was removed from her body, the executioner's aide picked it up by the hair and slapped it. Witnesses swear that her cheeks blushed and mouth went into a sneer. Paris went wild! The aide was sent to prison for bad manners. Several French doctors devoted their careers to studying the effect of the guillotine. Dr Beauriex, in 1905, decided to run a few tests on a severed head. He noted that the victim had walked calmly to his death and that the head had landed upright. When he yelled the dead man's name in his ear the eyes opened wide! Dr Beauriex wrote, " I was dealing with undeniably living eyes which were looking at me. Several seconds later the eyes became closed slowly and evenly, taking the same appearance as before I called out. I called out again and once more,without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine...". This just adds to the mystery of passing. No doubt the experience is real to those that make claim to their experiences. Gordon Michael Scallion's story is pretty interesting regarding his near death experience. I hope there is something on the other side. We won't really know until each of us gets there. I suppose it's just as much a possibility that when it's over it's over, Like a soap bubble that pops, it's done. It's a conundrum.

Originally posted by 02bmw76
How about the information from France regarding the study of people killed by the guillotine? Charlotte Corday stabbed revolutionary leader Paul Marat in his bathtub and she was sentenced to the guillotine. After her head was removed from her body, the executioner's aide picked it up by the hair and slapped it. Witnesses swear that her cheeks blushed and mouth went into a sneer. Paris went wild! The aide was sent to prison for bad manners. Several French doctors devoted their careers to studying the effect of the guillotine. Dr Beauriex, in 1905, decided to run a few tests on a severed head. He noted that the victim had walked calmly to his death and that the head had landed upright. When he yelled the dead man's name in his ear the eyes opened wide! Dr Beauriex wrote, " I was dealing with undeniably living eyes which were looking at me. Several seconds later the eyes became closed slowly and evenly, taking the same appearance as before I called out. I called out again and once more,without any spasm, slowly, the eyelids lifted and undeniably living eyes fixed themselves on mine...". This just adds to the mystery of passing. No doubt the experience is real to those that make claim to their experiences. Gordon Michael Scallion's story is pretty interesting regarding his near death experience. I hope there is something on the other side. We won't really know until each of us gets there. I suppose it's just as much a possibility that when it's over it's over, Like a soap bubble that pops, it's done. It's a conundrum.

All that means is that the brain isn't dead yet. it's not scientific evidence that life goes on after death. death doesn't occur until the brain no longer functions.

OP.. just say OK... this information is not based on Scientific Principles.

You can then say that there is a large body of non-scentific evidence relating to people's experiences after the death of their brain and other organs.

That should keep the more abusive types happy.. and why is that these types turn to abusive behaviours so quickly? Poor form to show their Limitations so eagerly.

'___'.. undoubtedly it plays an important part in the physical death process.. which I think is more about the patient becoming less concerned about death as they slowly begin to experience it.

Not for one second do I think '___' is responsible for what people report experiencing after the death of vital organs.

Science needs to understand something very important.. it is still very young and far from having the perfect understanding of anything that cannot be detected and measured.. all it's theories are modified and replaced as more repeatable observations information comes to Light.

As time goes by Science creates more machines that can detect and measure things that 50 to 100 years ago were thought of as crazy or only theoretical. Perhaps then in another 50 to 100 years it may accidentally discover a way to measure what it considers to be BS now ?

Let's hope so.

Originally posted by Tayesin
OP.. just say OK... this information is not based on Scientific Principles.

You can then say that there is a large body of non-scentific evidence relating to people's experiences after the death of their brain and other organs.

That should keep the more abusive types happy.. and why is that these types turn to abusive behaviours so quickly? Poor form to show their Limitations so eagerly.

'___'.. undoubtedly it plays an important part in the physical death process.. which I think is more about the patient becoming less concerned about death as they slowly begin to experience it.

Not for one second do I think '___' is responsible for what people report experiencing after the death of vital organs.

Science needs to understand something very important.. it is still very young and far from having the perfect understanding of anything that cannot be detected and measured.. all it's theories are modified and replaced as more repeatable observations information comes to Light.

As time goes by Science creates more machines that can detect and measure things that 50 to 100 years ago were thought of as crazy or only theoretical. Perhaps then in another 50 to 100 years it may accidentally discover a way to measure what it considers to be BS now ?

Let's hope so.

Thank you for your response. I would be willing to change the title of the thread if that would make others feel better about what I've presented here. I would change it to "Evidence" instead of "Scientific Evidence" to make others happy. But there is a four hour window to edit that and that has passed.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


And yet, you wont find NDE's presented as fact inside a textbook.

edit on 7-12-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

you mean like the. Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 7, No. 3, pp. 219-239, 1993?
just sayin...

Originally posted by angellicview

Originally posted by Tayesin
OP.. just say OK... this information is not based on Scientific Principles.

You can then say that there is a large body of non-scentific evidence relating to people's experiences after the death of their brain and other organs.

That should keep the more abusive types happy.. and why is that these types turn to abusive behaviours so quickly? Poor form to show their Limitations so eagerly.

'___'.. undoubtedly it plays an important part in the physical death process.. which I think is more about the patient becoming less concerned about death as they slowly begin to experience it.

Not for one second do I think '___' is responsible for what people report experiencing after the death of vital organs.

Science needs to understand something very important.. it is still very young and far from having the perfect understanding of anything that cannot be detected and measured.. all it's theories are modified and replaced as more repeatable observations information comes to Light.

As time goes by Science creates more machines that can detect and measure things that 50 to 100 years ago were thought of as crazy or only theoretical. Perhaps then in another 50 to 100 years it may accidentally discover a way to measure what it considers to be BS now ?

Let's hope so.

Thank you for your response. I would be willing to change the title of the thread if that would make others feel better about what I've presented here. I would change it to "Evidence" instead of "Scientific Evidence" to make others happy. But there is a four hour window to edit that and that has passed.

How about. Observations in support of....

Originally posted by steveknows
This is an unabashed misleading thread heading. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I find it very sad that you feel you need to lie to get people to have a look at your thread.

If what you've said in the post was written in a book, which some bits are, it wouldn't be found in the science section of a library.

edit on 8-12-2011 by steveknows because: Typo

That is incredibly harsh. I am not ashamed of myself and the evidence I present does fall under the guidelines to be scientific evidence. I have not lied in any way. In fact, the title of my thread is exactly the title of the page of the website which I derived my information from. No, it isn't found in science books. As you can see, it is currently a controversial subject. Here is a link to an article in Time Magazine entitled, Evidence of Afterlife.

I never realized this would be such a highly charged subject and I suspect that the people who are so verbally abusive about it are the ones who really didn't read the OP with an open mind or click any of the links. I will no longer argue over whether this OP presents "Scientific Evidence" or not. I will just leave the information up for the people who are interested in learning more about it. Those that don't can certainly move on to another thread which is more to their liking.

Originally posted by overratedpatriotism

Originally posted by TsukiLunar


And yet, you wont find NDE's presented as fact inside a textbook.

edit on 7-12-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

you mean like the. Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 7, No. 3, pp. 219-239, 1993?
just sayin...

Thank you for that piece! My web browser won't let me open the PDF files online. But here is a link to the Google Search results for that for others who would like to check it out. Link

Originally posted by dannotz
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

loved your reply.

All these peeps speaking about science don't realize that scientific evidence is something that an be repeated with the same results...this is happening with every NDE.

I can understand someone who wasnt dead having a hallucination in a hospital due to chemicals flowing through the brain. But when someone is DEAD for several minutes and wakes up with knowledge about things that happened not only in the room they were dead in, but other places around the world, well that's miraculous..

I love your avatar btw, very pretty.

Thank you so much! Yes, I thought that was quite compelling, as well

Here's something to contemplate. I come from a rediculously, unabashedly fanatic Catholic family. I, however, am an Athiest through and through. I have no belief in any religion WHAT SO EVER. My belief is this: when you die, that's it. There is nothing. No more. No white light. No virgins. No seeing long lost relatives who invite you in to the light. The list of fabrication goes on and on and on........

In saying this, I must tell you my story..

In 1991 I was hit by a car. I was a pedestrian. The car was traveling at 70km per hour. I got really farked up. My left ankle was at my right ear, my spine was compressed, my skull was cracked open and brain exposed, my right arm resembled the letter "J" below the elbow.

This, however, did not kill me. An allergic reaction to Morphine, administered by the good hospital folk, killed me.

For 9 MINUTES. I was clinically dead for 9 minutes.

Now, I have no memory WHAT SO EVER of this. There was no white light. There was no tunnel. There were no relatives. There was no "out of body" experience. There was no feeling of freedom. There was no feeling of fear. There was no feeling of hope. (Feel free to insert your own emotive here).

I was DEAD.

3 weeks later, after an induced coma, I awoke. Feeling like #e. My doctor, family and friends told me what had happened and quizzed me on what I "felt and saw" while I was "Dead". When I was able to reply I told them that I felt and saw NOTHING. They were astounded that I didn't see " the light". (Insert your own interpretation here too)

My point is - I DIED. And I died believing that when I died there was nothing more. Nada. Zip. NOTHING. And when
I was revived I could recall nothing about a NDE. WHAT A SURPRISE!!

If you die believing there is something else after life then, if you get a second chance, you will believe you saw the afterlife (again, insert your own interpretation here).

If you die like me, believing in nothing and see nothing after death.......

Occam's Razor comes to mind :-)

reply to post by jaijlee


That is one explanation.

Or

"3) Like dreams, NDEs are quite often dissociated activities of the brain and
can only be remembered when the normal consciousness has access to
them (22a; 30; 43; 44; 118; 147; 149). Actually in Western societies
there exists a tendency to take refuge with unconsciousness when confronted
with the fear of death. Just this reaction psychodynamically is
nothing else than a dissociation. Since dissociation normally is associated
with amnesia, we are amnesiac for most of our dreams and NDEs
(22b, 22v, 22w). Therefore some NDEers remember their experience
only under hypnosis (22d) or months to years later, when they come into
contact with an appropriate association (for example another NDEer)
(22d-e; 43)."

Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 7, No. 3, pp. 219-239, 1993

Yeah, your pineal gland produces seratonin when you die and/or have a NDE as a way of either coping with the pain or suffering you are feeling at that time.

/endthread

reply to post by overratedpatriotism


I respect your logic. However, unless you have walked in the same shoes as I have, I don't believe you can solidly prove what my brain has or hasn't done.

If science and religion (YES, TOGETHER) can prove life after death then I will subscribe to the fact that it is plausible.

reply to post by 011011011


This post assumes that I had a NDE and that I was in denial of the fact that I was dead.

Re read my post to understand my side of the argument.

A couple of things to keep in mind is this....

Anyone who has gone to hell, no matter what their religion is, they said that they didn't see a devil...

Some Christians who don't even believe in Reincarnation said that they were told of it on the other side....

Even religious people who like to judge and doesn't believe in the "unconditional love" God concept, still meets a God of unconditional love...

If these are just hallucinations then they should be hallucinations reflecting the person's belief system....

In fact, because of the Near Death Experiences, sometimes belief systems are CHANGED.

reply to post by 011011011


That is not what people like Ken Ring, PhD, Bruce Greyson, MD, Ken Ring, PhD, Elizabeth "Pat" Fenske, PhD, Bruce Horacek, PhD, Diane Corcoran, PhD, Jan Holden, EdD, and Diane Corcoran, RN Believed. They are only doctors though. What do they know.

They presided over the Journal of Near-Death Studies. The only peer-reviewed scholarly journal (ISSN 0891-4494) devoted exclusively to the field of near-death studies. It is cross-disciplinary and published quarterly.

No big deal though. its only peer reviewed.