Islam - Day of Ashura being commemorated with adults and children whipping their backs with chains,

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Don't Catholics submerge a baby under water to baptize it?

I dont think so, they only put a bit of water on its head, as far as I know.

reply to post by kennylee
What about the psychological damage christianity has inflicted on countless millions of people?. Teaching children that they are born in sin and evil ect ect, what a terrible scar religions have left on humanity.

We should point out that self-torture is present in all religions, but it's more prevalent in Catholicism and Christianity. Self-flagellation by Christians predates that practiced by Muslims by several hundred years. It should also be pointed out that self-flagellation (or Matam) is only practiced by one heretical sect of Muslim, and abhorred by the rest. The Catholic Church has also deemed flagellation heretical.

"Flagellants" in Christianity use everything from a crown of thorns, cat-o-nine tails, whips, chains, and nails as part of their rituals. Why not condemn the entire religion based on these observers?



Examples;

Christians whipping themselves;


Or nailing themselves to the cross - actual nails, actual crucifixion (except it's stopped before anyone dies);


The Roman Catholic "Cilice", or barbed metal belt worn commonly around the upper thigh;


Link to a religious store that sells these: cilice.co.uk

A cilice was originally a garment or undergarment made of coarse cloth or animal hair (a hairshirt). In more recent times the word has come to refer not to a hairshirt, but to a spiked metal belt or chain worn strapped tight around the upper thigh. Many religious orders within the Roman Catholic Church have used the cilice as a form of "corporal mortification," but in recent years it has become known as a practice of numeraries (celibate lay people) of Opus Dei, a personal prelature of the Roman Catholic Church.

For some people and orders, this is how they reach spiritual attainment. I'm not passing judgement on them, and neither should you.

reply to post by Shuye


I guess I did kind of jump the gun and incorrectly call some of you religious fanatics. That was a bad assumption on my behalf, I apologize.

Religious bickering just grinds my gears sometimes.

Perhaps I should just avoid these threads altogether

reply to post by Maslo


You're right. I just looked it up and a standard baptism in modern days shows water being poured on the baby's head.

The drowning incidents are very rare and are the results of incorrect methods being used.

reply to post by Shuye


So , you worry about peace and I think you worry about peace for yourself , because there aren't much people concerned about peace in Middle East and how US and NATO is disturbing it in that region.

Those people do all that rituals to remember how that Imam was oppressed by such cruel people.

This is going to have a lesson for themselves , and it is only for themselves.

As you can see people are not using those chains against each other , so it is peaceful.

So , you can live in peace and leave all the Muslims in the region with the misery your government is bringing to them.

I think those peaces of history are just keeping repeating , and now , none-Muslims are oppressing Muslims.

I believe that all oppressors will pay one day.

Peace.

Ahhhh Religion.

Where the jokes just continue to write themselves

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

ALL RELIGIONS ARE CULTS!

Sorry I find it amusing to watch some of you try and portray your religion to be better than any other religion

You have all been divided and conquered

Your religious beliefs are the main threat to this earth.

edit on 6-12-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: more grammar fail lol

Very interesting .

There is yet hope about ATS.

reply to post by hmdphantom


Sorry but you will never convince me that this ritual is peaceful because they don't hurt others but themselves. A person who is kind to himself will be kind to others. A person that is violent with himself will be violent to others. It is the rule of attraction, you become what you are. Causing pain, to yourself or others it doesn't matter, it is violence. There is no reason on earth for little kids to cut themselves with knifes, never and ever as there is no reason for people to stab their hands with nails. What is the point?! What progress does it make for us as humanity? Or else, where does these acts leads us to??

Justifying that is like justifying civil wars. The fact that it's not towards others doesn't mean that it is still right to exist.

The reason for this is the reason why there is a problem in the Muslim world.


To get the real picture read the wiki link below and the Black Swan of Cairo, 9 pages total, not asking much to be informed here.

en.wikipedia.org...'a%E2%80%93Sunni_relations

www.foreignaffairs.com...

if you look hard enough you can find a free copy of the black swan of Cairo just Google it, and wiki sunni and shia relationship


Summary:

Sunni = group of wise men to take over after Mohammed's death.
Shia = Mohammed's family linage take over after death

Sunni kills most of Mohammed's male family and a bunch of other folks to get what they want and, walah, Sunni is the majority with 90% today. It is not only a very sad anniversary, like celebrating Easter for Christians, but it gets worse - like Judah's group leading the masses. Not only is it sad but also a warning to the length religious folks go to for a point to be proven, its like telling the Sunni that they "Shia" can kick their own "arsh" better than the Sunni ever can and they remember the Sunni majority killing off so many important leaders early in their religious history.


Another pointed out how brutal this is, but then look at Easter in the Philippines and what early Christians did to themselves. The story before the story of Abraham and Isaac, where the kid dies in the end --- its all the same, religion in the end rears its ugly head, repression on the minority, and people look the other way until it happens to them. Its only been going on since the beginning of time, where have you been???

reply to post by Shuye


Theyre doing the same crap as the flagellants did in the Dark Ages. Abusing their bodies in the hopes that Allah will take their blood as a sacrifice and relent from punishing the world. This is actually an old christian ritual that started around the Black Death period circa 1347 A.D.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Don't Catholics submerge a baby under water to baptize it?

I dont think so, they only put a bit of water on its head, as far as I know.

Catholics sprinkle water as "baptism", so do Methodists and Lutherans i think. Baptists and Pentecostals actually submerge but we don't baptise babies thats something that is supposed to be for each person to choose on their own afte rthey get saved. Baptising a baby is pretty much pointless. We do have baby dedications sometimes, as the parents and the babies family dedicate the baby to Christ and then take on the responsiblity of raising the child to know Jesus.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by Shuye

 

So , you worry about peace and I think you worry about peace for yourself , because there aren't much people concerned about peace in Middle East and how US and NATO is disturbing it in that region.

Those people do all that rituals to remember how that Imam was oppressed by such cruel people.

This is going to have a lesson for themselves , and it is only for themselves.

As you can see people are not using those chains against each other , so it is peaceful.

So , you can live in peace and leave all the Muslims in the region with the misery your government is bringing to them.

I think those peaces of history are just keeping repeating , and now , none-Muslims are oppressing Muslims.

I believe that all oppressors will pay one day.

Peace.

Don't go blaming the western world for the lack of peace in the middle east. Even if the U.S. and NATO wasn't involved there wouldn't be any true peace. Just false peace. Muslims oppress other muslims just fine on their own as we can see in this war between shiite and sunni muslim. Just this morning i heard about a woman and her 4 kids being blown to bits by shiites and they were sunnis. Islam isn't just at war with the rest of the world theyre at war with themselves, just look at all the crap that goes on in Baghdad everyday.

In a perfect world there would be no war, but this is far from a perfect world and for whatever reason there are people in the shadows pulling the strings and they don;t want to see a lasting peace. These people hiding in the shadows are from every nation and every government and possibly every religion. Were looking at the worlds largest conspiracy ever. Call it what you will but it looks to me like the Anti-Christ is making his play for power and everyone is falling into his trap hook, line and sinker.

reply to post by Shuye


This is done on the day of Ashura. Which is when the grandson of Mohammed was killed in a big battle. It is a day of grief and atonement for losing the battle. It has been outlawed in many places but they travel to Iraq and carry this out. Just more of the herd mentality and inability to think rational where religion is concerned.

That brings up an interesting point.

If this was banned (on like a country/government level), wouldn't that be infringing on freedom of religion?

As has been elucidated already, this self-flagellating is done by shi'ites in remembrance and in mourning of the killing of the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad about 1300 years ago (from the day before yesterday) at the hands of the 6th Caliph, Yazid.

Now, PERSONALLY, I don't agree with the concept of self-flagellation as a form of devotion, or even with the concept of mourning someone who died over 1300 years ago, but I'd sympathise with the early pre-runners of the shi'ites, and I consider the basis for the entire conflict (who gets to be the new leader) to be sad and absurd.

But yeah, they do it, it is part of their culture and customs. Who am I to condemn them? There are people who crucify themselves, people who show their devotion by sticking nails through their waists, by sleeping on beds of nails, etc. It may be gruesome to watch (and that may be the intention), but as long as there is no permanent damage, or it isn't done by anyone (elderly?) who could suffer a heart-attack or something, what can I say?

A shi'ite friend of mine who does this every year showed me his back about a week after he did it, and you could barely make out any of the marks..I guess the cuts don't go very deep. The same friend of mine told me he was proud and eager the first time he was allowed to join his elders for the mourning ritual (I think he said he was 12, although I could be wrong).

Originally posted by Shuye
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

Sorry but you will never convince me that this ritual is peaceful because they don't hurt others but themselves. A person who is kind to himself will be kind to others. A person that is violent with himself will be violent to others. It is the rule of attraction, you become what you are. Causing pain, to yourself or others it doesn't matter, it is violence. There is no reason on earth for little kids to cut themselves with knifes, never and ever as there is no reason for people to stab their hands with nails. What is the point?! What progress does it make for us as humanity? Or else, where does these acts leads us to??

Justifying that is like justifying civil wars. The fact that it's not towards others doesn't mean that it is still right to exist.

I never tried to convince you.I am not here to convince people by force. The outsiders who trust every thing they hear can not be convinced. That was some little explanation.

+ Your rules are true about yourself. There are other rules in Islam and they are working truly.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by Shuye

 

So , you worry about peace and I think you worry about peace for yourself , because there aren't much people concerned about peace in Middle East and how US and NATO is disturbing it in that region.

Those people do all that rituals to remember how that Imam was oppressed by such cruel people.

This is going to have a lesson for themselves , and it is only for themselves.

As you can see people are not using those chains against each other , so it is peaceful.

So , you can live in peace and leave all the Muslims in the region with the misery your government is bringing to them.

I think those peaces of history are just keeping repeating , and now , none-Muslims are oppressing Muslims.

I believe that all oppressors will pay one day.

Peace.

Don't go blaming the western world for the lack of peace in the middle east. Even if the U.S. and NATO wasn't involved there wouldn't be any true peace. Just false peace. Muslims oppress other muslims just fine on their own as we can see in this war between shiite and sunni muslim. Just this morning i heard about a woman and her 4 kids being blown to bits by shiites and they were sunnis. Islam isn't just at war with the rest of the world theyre at war with themselves, just look at all the crap that goes on in Baghdad everyday.

In a perfect world there would be no war, but this is far from a perfect world and for whatever reason there are people in the shadows pulling the strings and they don;t want to see a lasting peace. These people hiding in the shadows are from every nation and every government and possibly every religion. Were looking at the worlds largest conspiracy ever. Call it what you will but it looks to me like the Anti-Christ is making his play for power and everyone is falling into his trap hook, line and sinker.

The old #te-Sunni war in ATS is really old and I think you better know about Wahhabi the new sect in Islam established to blow Islam from within. And it is clear who helped Wahhabi and made Al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups :

I have said much about Wahhabi here :

ATS

So , next time judge more fairly and deny more ignorance about them.

hmdphantom.

I think this is not represent what a religion is, but more to the culture. But these days is hard to know the difference between cultural, political or religion value. Just need to learn it even more.

Here another ceremony in other culture that similar to it.

www.youtube.com...

Peace