The ultimate conspiracy

The conspiracy is the administration of all the major religions (and all dodgy spinoffs). Why should we pay some joker to sit in an uncomfortable seat and listen to him read a book that is available for us to read on our own.
No-where in the bible can I find where we are told we HAVE to worship in a 'house of god'. The pope really has no role in my mind, as do priests except to keep the courts full of poor children who have been violated by the people they trusted.

By the way, I was an alter boy, very close to the church. I realised it's evils and double standards and got myself excommunicated from my local parish. And for the record I was not 'interfered with' (churches way of calling RAPE) as a child.

Flame away.

all i can remember is around five or six years ago, the pope got a million dollar + car for his birthday or some #e like that. that just set me off for a few weeks. i mean, he cant even drive it! he should just stick to pope mobile if you ask me. by the way, anyone ever hear of the pope mobile comic series? my friends dad has a copy of it. funyy #e. dfh out.

I'm in agreement with you Ezekial.

Anyone who wishes to serve God as a career, in my opinion, should set an example for the lessons they wish to communicate.

Living in obscene luxury, with millions of people fauning over him, doesn't say to me that the Pope is living by his religions teachings.

I just see so many paradoxes and contradictions in Religion, it can be difficult to separate God from all this unneccassary pomp and ceremony - I think that's why a lot of people get turned off by God and spirituality, they see what an utter sham organised religion is, and many people can't untangle the belief in something bigger than us, from all that disgusting dogma.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
I'm in agreement with you Ezekial.

Anyone who wishes to serve God as a career, in my opinion, should set an example for the lessons they wish to communicate.

Living in obscene luxury, with millions of people fauning over him, doesn't say to me that the Pope is living by his religions teachings.

I just see so many paradoxes and contradictions in Religion, it can be difficult to separate God from all this unneccassary pomp and ceremony - I think that's why a lot of people get turned off by God and spirituality, they see what an utter sham organised religion is, and many people can't untangle the belief in something bigger than us, from all that disgusting dogma.

Good point, but I believe most people get put off by religion and the general God thing because there is no evidence that it/he/she, exists.

Someone was going to say it..!!

I agree with how the pope and priests live in luxory how it makes a sham of it, and also i dont feel the need to go to a church or any "gods house" to have a word with him, i do it where ever i am.

Originally posted by Koka
Good point, but I believe most people get put off by religion and the general God thing because there is no evidence that it/he/she, exists.

Someone was going to say it..!!

- That too!!

Going back to the topic, I do actually think there is a conspiracy within organised religion, in that the institutions themselves are built upon conspiratorial foundations - in as much that there seems to be a whole lot of information and teachings within religions that has been withheld from public view or discussion, and this information is only open to those within the higher circles of the organisation.

Secrecy from those in power, whatever power they hold, whether it be political, financial, or religious, can never be a good thing.

Secrecy only benefits the few (those keeping the secret), and never the whole (the rest of us).

As such, there is and are beliefs.
For one to believe in something, is it necessary gentleme and ladies, for one to have to have the so-called "proofs and evidences"? We are talking beliefs in a "Higher-Being, Something, etc.", correct? We are not talking about everyday mundane stuff that can requires said proofs and evidences.
This discussion can go on and on and have no concrete winner.....

As to "organized" religions being "conspiracy" in nature or "conspiratorical.....anyone care to share 'who', 'what', 'when', 'where', and the 'why' so?
Let me see.....there is the so-called Conspiracy Theory of History itself and then there is those pesky Conspiracy Theory of Religion....seems to me that Reality or Life is one big freakin' Conspiracy Theory, eh?
Here's a few thoughts:
When was 'religion' created?
How long has Man sought answers to how things work, why "we" are here, etc.?
Did all these things require before mentioned "proofs and evidences" for them or many of those who follow religion today?
Does "faith and belief" truly require said "proofs and evidences" or is "belief" without "proofs and evidences," being just apart of Human Nature?



seekerof

[edit on 6-9-2004 by Seekerof]

Years ago I went to D.C. and visited the Basilica of the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception (say that three times fast!) with a friend who insisted we sit through High Mass. As I'm surrounded by glittering mosaics and abundant detailing all done in real gold, with one priest reading from a gold-covered Bible and another from one that looked like it was covered in silver, with columns of the most expensive marble imported from all over the world, would you believe I had to sit through a sermon on how people need to give more money to the Church to help the poor? Cripes, the cost of the real estate alone (we're talking D.C. here) would probably have fed cities' worth of Ethiopians.

The money in the Vatican can rid Africa of starvation. How about some love for your fellow man huh Pope? Religious Structure makes me sick, almost as sick as people trying to make me believe in a 'God'.

Originally posted by Ezekial
The conspiracy is the administration of all the major religions (and all dodgy spinoffs). Why should we pay some joker to sit in an uncomfortable seat and listen to him read a book that is available for us to read on our own.
No-where in the bible can I find where we are told we HAVE to worship in a 'house of god'. The pope really has no role in my mind, as do priests except to keep the courts full of poor children who have been violated by the people they trusted.

ok, bare with me here...i'm new so i hope this posting goes well...

your post said all major religions (and dodgy shootoffs) so i'll share my opinions and experience on judaism. throughout all of college, and the two years i've been out of college, i have yet to pay in $ for my attendance to shabbat services.

also, i recall my rabbi (in college) saying that the word rabbi in english just means scholar or learned...which is why they do the jobs they do. but throughout all of college, not once did i go to a service that was lead by the campus rabbi (not even Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur services). all services that we had on campus(conservative and reform...orthdox services were at somebodys house off campus) were lead by students.

i guess this is just food for thought...and curious how it would play into your conspiracy theory.

i've only been to one protestant service and one catholic service, so i don't feel like i have enough experience to comment on them, but i do recall my roommate paid tithes every week when he went to catholic services.

if I have my history correct. Please fix if not. One of the questions listed by Martin Luther to the Catholic church included asking why the people of the time were not permitted to read the Bible on their own (Only relayed by clergy). Latin being difficult to learn, many english translations followed afterwards. I was a 'study on my own' type for about fourteen years. It helped me see a lot of things that someone else could not explain to me. Recently I was fortunate enough to find a church that activated the people who attended (involvement in charities, missions, music, drama, etc.) instead of sitting on ceremony and just listening to a once a week service. They've got an awesome band. The people are real too, not 'holy rollers' as they are called. They have hardships, emotions, sins, successes, and truly care about each other's lives. Did I mention the band rocks? It took me many years but was worth the search.

O.k!!!
The pope is an normal human being...nothing to worship there and worst, he is rich and people die of hunger everywhere...it's disgusting me totally!

Religion like that (christianism with priest and all, hindouist, muslims, boudhism or any religion) are suppose to bring people together in peace, love and harmony...that is the purpose of any god related religion. There is ONE GOD, one souce...whoever is your symbole (boudha, jesus, allah...) makes no difference AT ALL, it's the same thing: LOVE

Religions as they are today, are total invention by the elite to create war, fear and chaos between countries and beliefs...it total crap! People kill each other in the name of some guys (mentors, prophets) that died years ago!

Religions are crazy!!! Believe in god but don't kill each other and make money on it's back!

"imagine there is no religions, only one true spirituality of love"

Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

What if there is a minister or whatever kind of religious leader who makes a wealthy living outside of the "church"? Let's say he/she buys and sells real estate, or developes websites, or paints houses, etc... Is is still wrong for someone who delivers a sermon of sorts to enjoy the finer things in life? Is it wrong for that person to want to make his/her family's life better? If they make there fortune outside of the religious structure, should they just throw it away? I know that the bible says the love of money is evil, but money itself and the luxeries it can buy is not.

Ez,
The Pope is not rich, contrary to the belief he is. Most of the Catholic Churches assests are tied up in "old money" like paintings sculptures, etc. that can't and wouldn't be sold for money. If you did research in this you'd find this out. Money in the Church is for building of new churches and helping the various dioceses in the whole world and their programmes. Also most of the pictures, mosaics, lands, and other art around churches the funds or the art themselves are donated by the people of the Catholic Church itself, because the love they have for it. You don't realise how many Catholic run programmes there are in helping the less fortunate, do you're homework please. Priests don't get paid much at all btw.

You also forget that priests are human and sin too, yes some more graver than others whether it be material objects like money, sexual sins etc. but, they will be judged in due time. Hopefully in this world but, for sure in the next. The Church is divinely lead but human ran, and humans are sinful creatures, even the Pope sins.

Saint,
Martin Luther lied or distorted the views about the Catholic Church not letting its parishoners read the Bible, to win converts. It is strongly encouraged for all Catholics to read the Bible. This is just old school Sola Scriptura propaganda against the Church.

Velvet,
The Catholic Church hold its Tradition from when the Church was founded, this is all we had, we didn't have the Bible until the mid 300s, we went by Tradition. Besides it is the Catholic Church who decided, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit on which writings would be in the Bible. The ceremonies Catholics participate have been the same format since the beginning of its foundation. you don't know about the Catholic religion apparently from your remarks about the Pope, you really don't know what he does. Deny your ignorance my friend and read up on it.

Amelia,
You're right the Pope is a normal human being like me and you but, God through the Holy Spirit chose him to lead the Catholic Church, I don't know what plans he had or has for the various Popes of the past and future, it will all be revealed on why this or that happened and to what end when I meet Him face to face.



To All,
Before you unjustly judge others, know you'll be judged accordingly. You know a better way to help the feeding starving people of the world is to give up meat and dairy products. Do you know how much resources the world blows on keeping "meat and dairy/egg" animals alive? Tons. The grain and other resources we dump into them can be given to the poor masses of this world. Meateaters consume the equivalent of about 5,000 liters[1,100 gallons] of water a day compared to the 1,000-2,000 liters used by people on vegetarian diets, for instance.

The meat and dairy industry is directly responsible for 85 percent of all soil erosion in the U.S., because so much grain is needed to feed animals being raised for food. In the U.S., animals are fed more than 80 percent of the corn we grow and more than 95 percent of the oats.

You see don't zero in on individuals, zero on yourself and you make the difference. Most of you say you can't "live" without your meat and meat products, which is a croc. You can get all you need from vegetables, and don't go on about B12 because I have the answer to that too. So don't blame others about starving people when you yourself are contributing to it by eating meat. You might be saying I can't make a difference from not eating meat, dairy, or eggs, but collectively, we can. It has to start somewhere.

I have other reasons why I don't eat meat, that is another topic not for this one, but the resource reason was for this topic.

[edit on 10-8-2004 by Cearbhall]

Any way...where I come from...catholic religion is not very popular,it used to be long time ago but now it's like old fashion. Churches are totally empty (except for old persons) mariage is not popular and priest are very old men. It's not BAD, I'm not a bad person for that!

I don't know what it's like to "practice" catholic religion... for me, it's not better than any other. I just think that Jesus was a soul from higher plane who incarnated in a human body to come to teach us how to envolved on earth...he was highly spiritual and had a lot of knowledge...but that is IT! No way we had to make a big religion out of it and scare people with hell and sin and all that crap. jesus must be very sad to see what humans have done with his teachings

I have my own personal beliefs, I've read the bible "by curiosity" very interesting.

I love u all, whatever is your religion, cuz religion is related to GOD (or whatever u call it)


Ameliaxxxxxxxxxxx

Amelia,
True I think that he is sad how many sects broke from the Church because of their human reasons and motives. The Catholic Church has the full revelation of Jesus Christ and keeps His teachings fully.

Careful though to deny sin and evil and hell because this is what the Devil wants us to do. Be wary. Satan is real and is looking for souls all the time to get back at God. His greatest illusion is to make people believe he doesn't exist and he is succeeding.

Originally posted by Cearbhall

Careful though to deny sin and evil and hell because this is what the Devil wants us to do. Be wary. Satan is real and is looking for souls all the time to get back at God. His greatest illusion is to make people believe he doesn't exist and he is succeeding.

Yeah, dark forces exist indeed! Satan, devil, or whatever u call it! It's much more complicated than that! Every religion have a name for "evil" but it's the dark forces that influence us to keep us away from god. It's the ying and the yang, positive and negative, everything has an opposite! But SINs....that is a word that mean something different for everybody...it's not even a "word" for me! I never use that word! Sin is something that u SHOULD not do, that is influence by the dark force...maybe....but if u make a sin, does'nt mean u r goin to HELL...what is HELL anyway??? Hell is here on earth, the 3 dimension where u have to work, suffer, have fear....priest and catholic religion made too much of a big deal about it! We are here to LEARN, never forget that! How can u learn without making mistakes????
Ameliaxxxxxxxx

Religious institutions, as with governments, seek to control the masses. Their main purpose is to stay in power and increase that power. Many people need and want to be a part of a church/temple, as it gives them a sense of community, solace during hard times, and hope for the future.

Regardless:

"Heaven is achieved through deed, not creed." -- Emanuel Swedenborg

Near-death experience research points to the idea that it doesn't matter what religion you belong to. What truly matters is what kind of person you were in life. Spirituality (living by The Golden Rule and serving others) is much more important than being part of any traditional religion. No one gets to heaven merely from lip service.

The solution then is an individualistic approach to spiritual awareness and development. However, most are not willing to do this, as it is a very difficult path to take. A much easier option is to simply join a church/temple and let others worry about the details of spiritual unfoldment and eternal salvation.

Progressive theology is the idea that the Universe is ultimately geared to spiritually improve itself. I believe that this is the case. Obsolete religions are eventually replaced by new and better ones. For example, you don't find many virgin sacrifices going on in present-day churches/temples as you did centuries ago. At least I hope not.

Eventually, all the Christian churches and the Bible itself will be largely replaced by a new and more spiritual paradigm that is closer to the Absolute Truth. Just as Roman Paganism was largely replaced by the comparatively more ethical doctrine of Christianity -- which many church leaders unfortunately corrupted through the centuries for selfish purposes.

This is a cyclical occurrence. When an old, worn-out religion starts to decline due to an erosion of morality and corruption within the organization (e.g., from the sexual abuse of thousands of innocent children around the world), the karmic repercussions pave the way for new foundations of progressive thought to emerge in the hearts and minds of people. This process takes many years to finalize but it does eventually happen.

I think the next major "religion" will be organized much differently. Matthew Fox, a well-known theologian and author, stated that the "Cosmic Christ" will emphasize an individual connection to God, not that of groups. This entails pursuing a direct mystical communion. We are reminded that the definition of a mystic is one who seeks direct revelation from above without a go-between.

Hence, I believe that the next major religion, what many refer to as the upcoming "paradigm shift," will have many unparalleled miracles within it and emphasize a personal mystical connection to Spirit/God -- without going through a priest, rabbi, imam, monk, etc.

But that's just my opinion.





[edit on 8-10-2004 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Cearbhall
To All,
Before you unjustly judge others, know you'll be judged accordingly. You know a better way to help the feeding starving people of the world is to give up meat and dairy products. Do you know how much resources the world blows on keeping "meat and dairy/egg" animals alive? Tons.

Not to go off topic, but where are you geting these facts?
I'd sure hate for anyone to give up meat, eggs and dairy if these facts come from some unreliable source.

the illuminati (who owns the Vatican) did a good job of confusing words and ideas again ..

the church is your body .. the temple of the Lord is your body .. God is the head of that church .. Not a stupid building.. its just like religous holidays and christmas nowadays.. just another day off, and a day to give or get presents.. its lost its meaning.. We're so far from God it isn't funny.. though the flip side of being the furthest away from him, it we are about to be the closest.. lol