Contest Flag Beg... please, please, pretty please with syrup all over it.

But hold the mayo... I dislike mayo. Tastes like latex.

Every once in a while, you might see thread titles with (F&R) or whatever in them. It's all about writing contests available to any member.

Used to be, we'd have judging panels to read every story and, by working together, decide on the winners. That's a lot of effort for a very few people and hasn't worked out so well in the past. Weeks might go by after a contest ends before a panel might agree and that's much too long for the lightning fast internet.

So, we're trying something experimental.

We're asking you... all of you, the members, to rate a story if you happen to read one even by accident. If you like it, give it a flag, if you don't, then don't. The three stories with the most flags win.

Here's where you can find them all together in a pile if you're looking for them.

Thank you. You guys and gals are great.

Spread the love.

I'm a writer and I have concerns about posting my stories publicly on here, in that they may be slightly altered then published by someone else. Sort of like getting your invention patented, once done, anyone can see what you used and how you made it, slightly alter it, and patent their own similar invention.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Suggestion... if you believe there is a publishable value to anything you might pen, don't post it anywhere online, don't let your family and friends read it and don't let the dog eat it.

Keep it in a safe and secure place up until it is finished and presented to a reliable and ethical pubishing house.

If you feel like just writing for the experience and hearing what others think of it, then post it anywhere online, let you family and friends read it, but still don't allow the dog to eat it.

OK?

By your reasoning, maybe you shouldn't post ANYTHING online. Others, like myself, will still give generously of their time and thoughts.

are there ever prizes?

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Not to mention the fact that as soon as you post it your giving away your copyright

17) Rights In Posted Materials: By posting on this message board, you relinquish all exclusive copyrights to any materials you Post and furthermore, you grant TAN non-exclusive, non-revocable worldwide, royalty-free rights to copy, distribute, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, create derivative works, and publicly perform the materials in perpetuity in all forms

It seems that the direction this thread is taking has little to do with my request for members to flag writing contest submissions and has been derailed instead into a criticism of ATS policies regarding copyright.

For that reason, I've moved this into BBQ for a more serious discussion.

Oh, and as for prizes, every contest has a little bit of blingy reward for winners.

reply to post by davespanners


Incorrect, you're not giving up your copyright by posting on ATS.

You're giving The Above Network rights to it as well. You still have all the rights and protection you had before you're just sharing them with The Above Network, LLC.

There have been many, many times we've enforced our members copyright on their behalf when another site plagiarizes ATS Member content elsewhere on the internet.

Springer...

Had wondered what the F+R was.. Will pop over and have a look see.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
I'm a writer and I have concerns about posting my stories publicly on here, in that they may be slightly altered then published by someone else. Sort of like getting your invention patented, once done, anyone can see what you used and how you made it, slightly alter it, and patent their own similar invention.

Yes, you are a writer.

Perhaps the ATS contests are more for artists, who express themselves because they have no choice, because the expression fights its way out of them. It isn't a labor, but rather a passion of expression. In such a person, such notions as "patents" are patently absurd.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I'm an artist, and feel the need to create, and also expect that my work will not be stolen and passed off as another's, and if it was, that the laws governing intellectual property and plagiarizing, etc. would help to make it right.

Take my words, my creative expressions, and I'll just make more for you to enjoy.

@bfft: I totally agree.
@masqua: I thinking of a way to get more flags for the contest, but you beat me to it. Thank you. *deep bow*

reply to post by Springer


Thanks for clearing that up. I thought we gave up the copyright all together. Im going start getting a good thrad together now..)

Originally posted by kkrattiger
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I'm an artist, and feel the need to create, and also expect that my work will not be stolen and passed off as another's, and if it was, that the laws governing intellectual property and plagiarizing, etc. would help to make it right.

Then why do you create? For the need of money? Or because it is inside you trying to come out?

Is there a bit of having your cake and eating it too?

I'm pretty new here, thanks for pointing
me in this direction I would of never known
about it.. I have some reading to do!

THANKS`

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I'm also an artist, and I felt a little bit wierd about this copyright issue at first, but I wont let it stop me from sharing my ideas. I combat the obvious fear of people stealing and selling prints of my work (this happened to me once in the past) by making sure they are not very high res. And if I want to make money nobody can 'steal' my originals. I can see how its scarier for writers, since proof of authorship is more difficult.

Originally posted by el1jah
I combat the obvious fear of people stealing and selling prints of my work (this happened to me once in the past) by making sure they are not very high res.

I handle it exactly the same way. Low rez for online postings. If anyone takes it, it's easy enough to discover through Google Images and most often, it's because someone was interested enough that they post it on their own websites for discussion. If they (prints) were ever put up for sale, I'd be fighting with whatever tools I can bring to bear. The originals are either in my possession or have been sold to individual buyers.

I can see how its scarier for writers, since proof of authorship is more difficult.

No doubt about that... but those who plagiarize, if they are successful at making a substantial profit from their crime, get a lot of public attention and, when that happens, lawyers will fall all over each other to split the proceeds with the original and true author. Fame is a two-edged sword.

Originally posted by el1jah
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I'm also an artist, and I felt a little bit wierd about this copyright issue at first, but I wont let it stop me from sharing my ideas. I combat the obvious fear of people stealing and selling prints of my work (this happened to me once in the past) by making sure they are not very high res. And if I want to make money nobody can 'steal' my originals. I can see how its scarier for writers, since proof of authorship is more difficult.

Yeah, i just make my writing "low res" so that nobody wants it, too.

reply to post by masqua


Masqua, I am surprised by this move to let membership flags decide writing contests. Surely there must be a better way. And I say that because of threads like this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Which got flagged to the top even though it's total BS, that proved to be total BS. And proved that flags in the hands of members are not the best solution by which to judge writing contests. It opens the door to favoritism, cliques, flag mining, personal u2u invites to read stories and give flags, etc. Not good. Reconsider that please.

I comment on this and I am not a writer in the contests, so it is with pure good intent and no self interest that I make the suggestion to find another way, for the sake of those putting in the time to write those stories.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
It opens the door to favoritism, cliques, flag mining, personal u2u invites to read stories and give flags, etc. Not good. Reconsider that please.

Good points and ones I've considered myself. The fact remains that a member can only flag once and, even though a hundred flags are given as a result of a thousand U2U's begging for them, each and every contestant has the same ability to really piss off all their friends here at ATS. How would you feel if I'd sent you a personal request to please flag my short story? I think you'd tell me to... well... you get the idea.

So far, I haven't seen this happen and we're on the third contest using this method already. It seems to work and the winning entries, so far, sure looked deserving.

If, on the other hand, nefarious dealings were suspected because an unimaginative and uninspired story got a suspiciously overpowering number of flags, there are options and ways in which staff can deal with that.

Another thought on this is how I would feel knowing that the reason my story won in the contest is because I got all my buddies to flag my entry. Where would be the feeling of pride over a job well done? That is, beyond the questionable reward of flags and points, the only thing that really matters here.

I comment on this and I am not a writer in the contests, so it is with pure good intent and no self interest that I make the suggestion to find another way, for the sake of those putting in the time to write those stories.

So, what's the answer? Judging panels? Would you be willing to read 30 or 40 stories and make a judgement call on which were the best ones? We've tried that with dozens of contests in the past and, believe me when I say it's a difficult and challenging process. Nothing can be considered until the contest ends because often we receive great entries in the last few hours. Then the reading and deciding needs to start. Every judge, and I always wanted more than a few in case of last minute RL situations which precludes some from helping out even if they wanted to, then has to read everything a couple of times and decide on their choices.

That's when it gets difficult with panels, because often, 6 judges will have 6 differing ideas on who should win and that means working out the wrinkles. I've seen almost a month go by, after much angst and wrangling, before the winners are announced.

In this way, we leave it up to the membership at large and the honesty of all the individuals who participate.

But, if you've a better solution than this which does not include flags or judging panels, I'm all ears.

reply to post by masqua


I don't have a solution per se, but I might have some suggestions.

1) Define judging criteria clearly.

2) Recruit more and new judges, from a pool that is not involved. It doesn't necessarily take a writer to judge a writer, but that depends very much on the judging criteria. There is a reason I listed point number one as point number one. It's probably the most important issue. There are some very bright newer members, for when us tired old geezers just won't do.

3) Create three separate judging panels, so that each panel decides a winner. If the same story appears as winner in two of them, there you have a definite winner. If it doesn't then you have a three way tie for first place. The end.