CRIME: Keeping Americans Safe the Libertarian way

Remember the 29 year old woman in Sequim Washington who had her house broken into?

She was at home with her young children on a late sunday night, she heard noises, it sounded like someone was inside her house, she didn't pause.
She called 911, whispering, she informed the police about the break in, she then awoke her chidlren and hurried them into her bedroom.

Next, she took out her 9mm pistol. With her children behind her, she pointed it at the door of her bedroom

When the intruder stepped through the doorway, the business end of that pistol was pointing at him. He spun around and fled before she could fire. When the police arrived later, she was safe. Her children were safe.
A privately owned fiream had foiled another potential robbery, or rape, or murder.

This is one reason why LIbertarians support the right to keep and bear arms.

The more citizens who have the opportunity to own a gun, the safer we all are.

Statistics bear this out.

Accorind to a study by John Lott and DAvid Mustard at the University of Chicago, the 31 states with concealed carry laws (which allow law abiding citizens to carry a weapon), saw their murder rates fall 8.5% faster than states without such laws.

If such right to carry laws were in effect all across the USA, there would be 1,600 fewer murders every year.

Over the past decade, crime rates have been falling. Even so, tens of millions of Americans (one of every four household) are victimized by criminals each year. That's too many victims.


To reduce crime rate, the Libertarians will:

Protect the right to self-defense.

Americans use guns appx 2.5 million times a year to stop crime- in most cases without firing a shot. It works.

For example: Law abiding citizens in Florida have ben able to carry concealed weapons since 1987, during that time the murder rate fell more than 20% faster than the national rate.

Get tough on real crime


The Libertarian's support swift and certain justice for those guilty of committing crimes of violence, theft, or fraud against others.

But unfortunately police spend billions of dollars a year to arrest people for victimless crimes like drug use, gambling, and prostitution.

Police resources should be redirected to focus on criminals who prety on innocent Americans, not people who commit "crimes" that harm nobody but themselves.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by TrueLies]

Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Remains true till the end of time, or until guns have amind of thier own.

I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

Originally posted by intrepid
I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

People should not play with them.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by intrepid
I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

People should not play with them.

No they shouldn't but some do. Also accidents from improper storage. Not teaching your children properly. I'm thinking that you would end up with MORE live lost than saved.

Originally posted by intrepid
I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

Gun accidents happen, so do car accidents......

Are you saying that gun accidents is grounds enough for outlawing guns? Because if that is so, then shouldn't be cars outlawed?

Accidents happen, this isn't grounds to make objects illegal.

You shouldn't be playing with a gun in the first place, you shouldn't be talking on your cell phone in the first place, you shouldn't hold the knife pointing towards you, you shouldn't be reading a paper and drinking coffee if it's too much of a task for you to handle...

Maybe you should look up:

Ski accidents
Car accidents
Roller blade accidents
Ladder accidents
Shower accidents (people slip and fall on bathroom floors)
Table saw accidents (my friend's dad cut off his pinky finger)


your using emotion......It's a specific object that you don't like so you want to get rid of it...

But if you use the logic of people having accidents then you have to get rid of all the above, and that list goes on and on my friend...

Originally posted by intrepid
No they shouldn't but some do. Also accidents from improper storage. Not teaching your children properly. I'm thinking that you would end up with MORE live lost than saved.

Just think how many lives would be saved by having a gun in your own home to protect you from a potential murder or rape or child abduction, ect...
Think of how many lives would be saved this way...

If you care about unfiltered facts, you can do a search on professor john lott...
As i've pointed out above... He's a smart #er, he puts his # right to em, and people hate it...



[edit on 2-9-2004 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by intrepid
I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

People should not play with them.

No they shouldn't but some do. Also accidents from improper storage. Not teaching your children properly. I'm thinking that you would end up with MORE live lost than saved.

People are going to die regardless.

I think all gun owners should have to take a course. Like driving a car. All guns should be sold with a lock, or a lock box.

Originally posted by TrueLies
your using emotion......It's a specific object that you don't like so you want to get rid of it...

But if you use the logic of people having accidents then you have to get rid of all the above, and that list goes on and on my friend...

I only see one person in this thread basing their posts on emotion and it isn't me TL. Reread it and you will see. And no you don't have to get rid of those things if you get rid of guns. Why? I see no logic here. I'm saying limit the accidents you can. Cars are an every day neccessity, so are showers, and table saws if you happen to be a carpenter. Guns are NOT an every day neccessity.

I'm not getting emotional... Trust me...

Your making a subjective argument based on what you feel, not the rights of others..


An Environmentalist who rides a bike think people who use cars are irresponsible polluters that cause uneccesary accidents ect ect...

Cars aren't a necessity as the environmentalist would say...

Btw, the second amendant does not address table saws, cars or all the other so called necessities you need...

Originally posted by TrueLies
Btw, the second amendant does not address table saws, cars or all the other so called necessities you need...

Well you tell that carpenter to build a house with a Smith & Wesson 357 Magnum and see how long it takes to get it done. Bet he'll complain about your 2nd Am. then.

Originally posted by TrueLies
Gun accidents happen, so do car accidents......

Are you saying that gun accidents is grounds enough for outlawing guns? Because if that is so, then shouldn't be cars outlawed?

Accidents happen, this isn't grounds to make objects illegal.

You shouldn't be playing with a gun in the first place, you shouldn't be talking on your cell phone in the first place, you shouldn't hold the knife pointing towards you, you shouldn't be reading a paper and drinking coffee if it's too much of a task for you to handle...

Maybe you should look up:

Ski accidents
Car accidents
Roller blade accidents
Ladder accidents
Shower accidents (people slip and fall on bathroom floors)
Table saw accidents (my friend's dad cut off his pinky finger)

Oh, and let's put another factor into this equation: alcohol. Now let's see what those stats look like.
Let's face it, lots of people do lots of things that are dangerouse. Should the government take them all away? (I'm sure some will think the government should take care of us and protect us from ourselves :dn

Intellectual dishonesty is a cornerstone of the left, thanks for carrying the torch high and proud.

Originally posted by TrueLies
Intellectual dishonesty is a cornerstone of the left, thanks for carrying the torch high and proud.

And insults are a crutch of the weak-minded.

Originally posted by intrepid
I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

That is true, but if you place trigger locks on guns and require mandatory education on safety rules. The amount of accidents would be mitigated.

Originally posted by intrepid
And insults are a crutch of the weak-minded.

When I put forth unfiltered facts and figures and present them in a blantantly obvious manner and you dodge them, by using emotion, I have the right to state an observation, which isn't an insult....There is a difference...


But if someone calls you on it, at least have the decency to admit what your doing instead of trying to cover your tracks with a (not so good) insult.

I'm still not understanding why you think the second amendment should be changed.

On what "facts" not "emotion" are you basing your argument on...

so far you've stated you would like to see facts on gun accidents, you haven't researched it...You've merely tried to debunk one's researched argument based on sound facts, on pure emotion and personal opinion... This isn't the mud pit...


The second amendment was put in place for a very good reason, it's stood the test of time, and the only reason it's being attacked now is because people get easily hysterical and touchy these days.
It's part of the alarmist society we live in.

But by using raw emotion as a basis for a conclusive argument??

You gotta have something better then that...

Originally posted by intrepid
I like the drop in crime with the gun laws but I would also like to see the statistics on gun accidents. They would go up as well.

I see absolutely no emotion here. In fact what I wanted WAS facts(statistics). Yes I actually looked it up, 1500 lives a year snuffed out in gun accidents. I didn't say anything about the 2nd Am., you did. It is an easy equation, more cars means more car accidents, more showers means more shower accidents, more guns means more gun accidents. That 1500 a year will rise with more guns out there. BTW, that is 1500 killed, maybe I should look up injured and maimed as well.

I'm sorry your from Canada Intrepid.....

People there don't understand guns because they've never been rightfully introduced into society the way they have in American society....

These are two different countries with two very different viewpoints, America won their idependance with guns and rightfully so, whereas Canada was colonized by the british....Although, the french were first...

Louis Reel was a rebel against the british in Canada, he used guns....He wanted to protect his culture, his beliefs, ect, he had his own group of men, however he was executed by the british because he wouldn't adhere to their policy...

This is why guns where infiltrated into the constitution, to protect people from this kind of thing...

Canadian history doesn't teach this to students because it's never been part of their history. Canadian history is british, American history is just that, and they established that via taking up arms.

Protection.......

What's your idea of how to protect oneself from harm?

TL, what makes you think I don't own guns? I come from a millitary family, I was taught to use rifles and handguns at an early age. My first was given to me on my 12th birthday. I was taught to respect them as well.

Originally posted by intrepid
maybe I should look up injured and maimed as well.

Sure, and don't forget to look up "how"


I'm not denying that injuries and accidents don't happen, i'll agree, but my point is, it's not reason enough to make concealed weapons illegal, they do more good then harm, and they save more "innocent" lives...

Looking at crime stats fall in the states where these laws are passed is good news. There are always going to be accidents and injuries, but when someone enters one home, thats not an accident, they have an intention, they have an agenda, and i'll bet my bottom dollar they aren't there to stuff a few extra bucks in someone's wallet..