Ohio Turns Back a Law Limiting Unions’ Rights

www.nytimes.com...

COLUMBUS, Ohio — A year after Republicans swept legislatures across the country, voters in Ohio delivered their verdict Tuesday on a centerpiece of the conservative legislative agenda, striking down a law that restricted public workers’ rights to bargain collectively.

The landslide vote to repeal the bill — 62 percent to 38 percent, according to preliminary results from Ohio’s secretary of state — was a slap to Gov. John R. Kasich, a Republican who had championed the law as a tool for cities to cut costs. The bill passed in March on a wave of enthusiasm among Republicans fresh from victories. A similar bill also passed in Wisconsin.

As a proud member of the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artist...AfofL/CIO. I congratulate my union brothers and sisters and the citizens of Ohio for showing support for the American workingman.
When the Government takes rights away from Citizens; it's called tyranny. Power to the people! On to Wisconsin!

Let our voices be heard this November.

I myself am an ex-Teamster, and I can't say anything good about them, but it's good to see at least some workers are able to keep their fate in their hands.

I am an apprentice in a field that i did not even go to school for.

I love the work........we move in when the red iron is up.

But anyways, I have mixed emotions when it comes to the Union's.

I currently have to support it because it pays the bills..................But the rules man, the damn rules

I do believe that if you are construting buildings, you should get payed considerably more than a McD's burger flipper.(I do not wish to offend anyone, I have personally said I would flip burgers if it came down to it)..........

But anyways,,,,,

Go Union's...I need a raise

reply to post by whaaa


Good for you....I'm proud of you and them. What a great day it is isnt it?

I'm glad to have a part in such an important topic not only in Ohio, but nationwide. We have set an example for all Americans to follow. Public or private, workers deserve the right to bargain on their own behalf. Ohio politicians tried to bastardize public employees for their own benefit and it blew up in their face. Wisconsin you're next. Don't believe the lies, follow our lead. Power to the people.

I've heard people say that it was a very good thing that the unions were able to contribute $30,000,000 to affect the election.

Maybe union money shouldn't be allowed to influence elections?

Originally posted by charles1952
Maybe union money shouldn't be allowed to influence elections?

Sounds like a plan, but how do you feel about corporate money influencing elections?

reply to post by Sunsetspawn


Dear Sunsetspawn,

Thanks for the question. Am I right in assuming that both of them have to be treated the same way? If we're going to be "fair" or "consistent" or whatever? If that's the case, I would lean toward allowing them both.

I think that would allow citizens another way to express themselves than just at the ballot box. You know, sort of a "I feel so strongly about this, I'll pitch in $50!" (Which is the most I personally could come up with.)

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by charles1952
I've heard people say that it was a very good thing that the unions were able to contribute $30,000,000 to affect the election.

Maybe union money shouldn't be allowed to influence elections?

LOL and how much did the Koch brothers spend on the other side and your figure is way off anyway.

I am a state worker in Ohio, the amount of lies and the tricks the republicans used were staggering here. They made robocalls telling people they could vote on Wednesday, they told the public that they were only asking workers to pay a small portion of their pension and health benefits (I've paid 10% and 15% respectivly for the last 15 years), they twisted an old woman's words in a tv commercial. It just goes to show what lengths republicans will go for in their lust for power. I hope this opened up people's eyes to what the republicans really stand for, not freedom not democracy, they stand for more money for the entitled rich and the people of Ohio have been heard.

Cheers for the 99%

I'm all for the 99% but Unions are not exactly your friend. Unions use price fixing and intimidation just like any crony capitalist out there. While I'm all for Unions, because let's face it their purpose keeps management in business more honest than not, I'm not for a lot of the guys that are involved in the high level management in the Union system. A great deal of these guys are Marxist/Leninist/Communists who would be better served to completely walk away from that ridiculous line of thinking. I would also be a lot more pro-Union if those guys would actually use their 30 million to support the benefits of the workers they represent while they are out on strike. A general strike would be far more effective than essentially turning into another corporate lobby with a CEO structure that benefits that head of the Union while the union worker that they claim to "represent" gets left out in the cold. Unions have become just as sleazy as the Koch Brothers and filled with power hungry goons, just of a different political persuasion. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Unions have become just as sleazy as the Koch Brothers and filled with power hungry goons, just of a different political persuasion. Just my two cents.

How do you figure? My union provides me with health care and a retirement and a living wage. My union dues provide me with recourse to my wages and residuals if the production company goes under. I think my union due are more than fair for the benefits they provide.

Do the Koch Bros do the same? Companies will screw over the working man every time in pursuit of profits for their stockholders.

Here is a great example of company abuse.

www.now.org...

Unions are not by any means perfect, and it would be foolish to think so. They have their fair share of greed and corruption.

However, for any political entity to attempt to silence the voices of people, and their right to associate as they choose is totally unacceptable.

I was thrilled to see this garbage law go down.

Originally posted by damwel
LOL and how much did the Koch brothers spend on the other side and your figure is way off anyway.

I am a state worker in Ohio, the amount of lies and the tricks the republicans used were staggering here. They made robocalls telling people they could vote on Wednesday, they told the public that they were only asking workers to pay a small portion of their pension and health benefits (I've paid 10% and 15% respectivly for the last 15 years), they twisted an old woman's words in a tv commercial. It just goes to show what lengths republicans will go for in their lust for power. I hope this opened up people's eyes to what the republicans really stand for, not freedom not democracy, they stand for more money for the entitled rich and the people of Ohio have been heard.

Cheers for the 99%

You are terribly mis-informed! This was NOT a Republican/Democrat issue - but it's so interesting and telling that the unions were dying to make it one. BTW - the unions lost on Tuesday. I'm just waiting for the layoffs to begin so that someone with "Seniority" can get ridiculously over-paid to hide in their truck under a bridge and nap all day.

Originally posted by whaaa
How do you figure? My union provides me with health care and a retirement and a living wage. My union dues provide me with recourse to my wages and residuals if the production company goes under. I think my union due are more than fair for the benefits they provide.

Do the Koch Bros do the same? Companies will screw over the working man every time in pursuit of profits for their stockholders.

Here is a great example of company abuse.

www.now.org...

edit on 10-11-2011 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

WRONG! Your EMPLOYER provides you with wages and benefits. Unions are beneficial at extorting additional wages and benefits on your behalf. They are also wonderful financiers of the DNC. Without your union dues, the Democratic party would implode.

Unions are not friend of the member. Unions are fostered by tptb, so that should tell you something. They have ruined the teaching profession, and if you disagree I say, "scoreboard"! If these 'masters certificate' teachers are professionals as they claim, what do they need a union rep for? Oh, one more observation. I saw more people steered and wheeled into the polls this time around. I guess when your getting something for nothing, you'll fight pretty hard to keep it.

Originally posted by damwel

LOL and how much did the Koch brothers spend on the other side and your figure is way off anyway.

I am a state worker in Ohio, the amount of lies and the tricks the republicans used were staggering here. They made robocalls telling people they could vote on Wednesday, they told the public that they were only asking workers to pay a small portion of their pension and health benefits (I've paid 10% and 15% respectivly for the last 15 years), they twisted an old woman's words in a tv commercial. It just goes to show what lengths republicans will go for in their lust for power. I hope this opened up people's eyes to what the republicans really stand for, not freedom not democracy, they stand for more money for the entitled rich and the people of Ohio have been heard.

Cheers for the 99%

I couldn't agree with you more and a big F&S to Whaaa for the OP as well. IMO, the T.P./GOP is a bigger threat to working people than terrorism itself and should be eradicated at the earliest possible opportunity. They are the current embodiment of ignorance, hatred and hypocrisy in american politics and their reign is beginning to unravel.

I am a 4th generation, retired member of the International Longshoremen's Association and I couldn't be happier that working people across this nation are finally waking up to the reality that the T.P./GOP represents the greedy 1%ers and not middle class America. I think it was Rick Perry who said last night at the debates, that any regulation that was not good for "Jobs" should be eliminated. I guess we should just forget about whether or not it's good for "People" or, god forbid, the planet. In their mind, if it doesn't generate a profit, it's not worth having. That's why they want to eliminate Social Security and Medicare as well. The whole world is now waking up to these facts and that's why the OWS movement is currently going global.

As for the current state of affairs here in America I'd say, "Look out Scott Walker, you be next!"

Now, let's address the purpose of unions. Modern unions were founded as a result of the fallout of the Industrial Revolution; poor wages, deplorable sweat-shop working conditions, and the overall exploitation of desperate workers. Although labor unions were formed as early as the 1700's, these were mostly fraternities and brotherhoods of laborers with shared skills. The first real labor union was the Federation of Organized Trades & Labor Unions founded by Samuel Gompers in 1881. The purpose was to ensure that workers received their fair share of PROFITS, improved working conditions and safety. Since FDR implemented the National Industrial Recovery Act in 1933 and the subsequent advent of the Department of Labor and OSHA and all associated state and federal agencies, Unions have become the bellweather of wage and benefit negotions. The leverage point used by unions to gain these increases is either the threat of a strike or an actual strike. Such work stoppage end up costing the company more money than the proposed increases and, as a result, the company caves in to the request. It is a form of blackmail.

Now, let's look at unions in the public sector. Although again, there were strikes of public sector employees dating back to the 1830's, the unions largely avoided government employees - that is until teachers began organizing in the roaring '20s with the launch of the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association - although the latter claimed only to be a professional organization and not a union. At this time other unions began forming in the civil service sector, but they lacked negotiating power as a result of laws on the books stemming from the 1919 Boston Police Strike that put an entire metropolitian city at risk.

The train for public unions officially left the station in 1958 when then mayor of NYC, Robert Wagner issued an Executive Order giving public unions specific bargaining rights and granted exclusive representation in labor negotiations directly to the unions. Soon several states followed and by 1962 JFK signed an Executive Order granting similar privledges to federal employee unions. From that point forward this country has seen a literal explosion in the size of various government work forces and a surge in the wages and benefits of the workers - in fact, more than a 40% increased differential as compared to their private-sector counterparts!

Now that we understand the history, let's pick apart the argument "FOR" public unions. The first, and most glaring, is that there are NO PROFITS in the public sector so the need for a union to negotiate for a fair share of profits is entirely moot. Next, since the government itself controls DOL, OSHA, Worker's Comp, etc... the mechanism to police workplace conditions and safety already exist and enforcement occurs within its own workforce - again, negating a need for a public union.

No, the sad reality is this... Public unions exist to finance the Democrat Party - period! In exchange for funding the Democrat Party, unions enjoy a disproportionate share of wages and benefits when compared to the private sector. Were any of you aware that the average compensation package for a federal employee is 66% higher than their private sector counterparts? In fact, federal workers earned an average of $123,049 in 2009 compared to $61,051 for the private sector! So, a symbiotic relationship exists where the democrats protect and coddle the unions at tax-payer expense in exchange for obscene campaign contributions from the unions to fund their elections. The public sector employees are pacified in this set-up by being the beneficiaries of Democrat largesse.

So, why is any of this a problem? Well. Benjamin Franklin said it best when he stated, "Once the people realize that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic". We are seeing it now. The Democrats pander to the poor by promising continued government largesse in the form of welfare, food stamps, medicare, medicaid, etc... all at tax-payer expense, but it buys votes. They do the same with the unions.

Here is the sad reality that the people failed to grasp. First, Ohio Senate Bill 5 did NOT restrict the union's right to negotiate for wages and benefits. What it DID do was prevent any civil servant from striking, thus protecting society from the dangers inherent with not having essential services as necessary. It also MANDATED a minimum threshold for public employees in terms of contributions to healthcare and pension and ELIMINATED the right of the union to use those two things as negotiating tools. Finally, it afforded government, at all levels within the state, the right to function as state law intended as an "At Will" employer - this means that protected classes of "Senior" workers could be terminated for justifiable cause under existing state law whereas under current union contract, this is not the case.

-CONTINUED FROM ABOVE-

The current climate with the defeat of Ohio senate bill 5 means EXACTLY this - there will massive layoffs of public employees. And sadly, it will not be the least productive who are layed off, it will be the youngest. Defeating SB5 did not put additional revenue into government coffers to pay union employees, it simply guaranteed the continued largesse to those with seniority at the continued expense of tax-payers in higher costs and reduced services.

In short, the guy with seniority who sleeps in his truck all afternoon under a bridge and makes more than double his private sector counterpart will be spared, but two younger, more productive public workers will be laid off to ensure that he continues to receive his largesse.

So, who wins here? Other than the guy with seniority... because to me the tax-payer lost significantly. The government lost significantly. The younger working generation lost significantly. And, once again, the unions succeeded in screwing everyone over except for the themselves, the Democrat Party and those with seniority.

Get ready for the massive lay-offs - coming to a government near you in the very near future!

Wait 'til they find out there's no money to pay the ridiculous pensions they've 'negotiated'. Overturning this bill will just throw the sh*t at the fan a little sooner.

reply to post by dillweed


When that happens you can watch them drop to the floor and throw fist pounding, leg kicking temper tantrums like children. I, on the other hand, will welcome them to the REAL WORLD where the rest of us live.