Official Story Shill Crushed By Truther/Researcher in Radio Debate!

reply to post by LaBTop


I would really like to have some reaction from resident (retired? ) radar operators (if present), and our 757-alikes, resident pilots (where's weedwhacker btw? ).

It does seem highly suspicious that professionals like the people manning the 80RADES radar interpretation group, did not see the obvious inconsistency in that huge radar map I posted.
Or is it their way of alerting us, that something is seriously wrong with those last -pink- radar data signals from their records, compared to the last 4 seconds data from the AAL77 recovered FDR, found by Warren Stutt?

In your professional opinion, don't you find it highly suspicious, that additional 4 seconds of that FDR were not mentioned in the NTSB published FOIA data and their animation?

And that a non-air crash investigator from Australia, Warren Stutt, however managed to uncover these 4 seconds from their FDR? Be they a little garbled to the end, more with every second, but holding still enough information to position the aircraft in those last 4 seconds.

WHY would those last 4 seconds be garbled at all? There's no reason for it, the plane flew steady, without touching anything up to the last half second, perhaps. If you do believe the NoC witnesses, the plane only hit the west wall, nothing else.

Or it must be this transformer box, or the lines towards it, as described by Terry Morin who saw a flash when the plane was behind the line of trees along the CITGO, and Penny Elgas who also saw a flash when the plane came over the turn in Columbia Pike on the north side of the CITGO station. Exactly where those power lines cross over that Pike.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by GenRadek
And Terry Morin and Edward Paik have it flying parallel to the Columbia Pike. So unless you want to explain just how it managed to do a fighter jet style high speed bank and turn to go around the Citgo, I think your witness is a little wrong.

If you would have read my description of Terry Morin and Edward Paik's reports, you would have known already that you are wrong.
Let's not even use both these men their flight path impressions. Let's just concentrate on what we know for sure from two Morin and two Paik interviews.

Paik saw the plane while looking up through his front office window from behind his desk, thus having not much view upwards, it was blocked by the upper window pane rim.
He saw not its left wing over his office roof, he could see however its belly and right wing very low over Columbia Pike, which is in front of his office with a small curb between his window and that street.

Morin describes very vividly where he stood, when the plane came thundering over his head.
He had just stepped about five steps out of the door, back at the footpath between Wing 4 and 5, leading to the elevator hall in the 5th Annex Wing building. He said it flew right over his head, with its right wing following the outer rim of the Annex buildings 4 and 5, where he stood between in the back on the small cemented footpath leading out to the parking lot along the Annex its 8 wings.

Now connect just those two men their two times confirmed positions above.



Is that parallel to Colombia Pike? No way, that's making a northwards of the CITGO station leading angle with the Pike.
Exactly the northwards angle we need to start that NoC flight path.

And not the officially proposed straight flown 60.25° true north SoC flight path, which is positioned by them btw, southwards of the Pike there. Not over it, south of it, and in fact probably over or south of the radio mast belonging to the Virginia traffic management office there in that south parking across the Pike.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


ANOK meant that dirt mount on the west side of Route 27, thus not blocking the view of drivers on Route 27 to the impact point, but for all the visitors of the CITGO station. But again not for anyone in the 8th Wing of the Annex, or anywhere else, so I also do not believe it was meant to block views, it could however been to hide that VDOT lorry that could have been used to bring the already broken light poles to their early morning, still dark, 9/11 "broken poles" positions. There was also a lorry parked a few meters from the spot where the last leg of the Pike went under Route 27, conveniently close to the two first "by AAL77's wings broken" light poles.



That's Robert Turcios above, standing on that fresh earth recently before 9/11 erected dirt mount in front of the southern Pentagon side of the CITGO. The northern side looking over at the Pentagon however was not blocked by this new mount, so also this mount is not a real blocker for all visitors there.

But the dirt mount in this picture left of light pole nr 21 did block most of the low impact view for those CITGO visitors :



However, I still don't think it was part of a plot. Too many other eventual witnesses on Route 27 and all over the Pentagon basin.

You must really have no life, laptop.

I really don't have time to go through your long, convoluted, deceptive posts.

You are a conspiracy hobbyist and you want seem relevant. I understand. You've been corrected and yet you refuse to accept the corrections. Instead you try and fit a square peg into a round hole.

You've never spoken with one witness, let alone RR- which Aldo Marquis spoke with twice, yet you want to forcibly tell people what they saw.

You have 0 aviation experience. 0 engineering experience. 0 any experience other than conspiracy theorizing from behind your computer. You can't even illustrate your silly and impossible NoC impact theory.

Thank God you are a nobody confined to a crappy conspiracy theory forum.

Originally posted by WetBlanky
You must really have no life, laptop.

I really don't have time to go through your long, convoluted, deceptive posts.

You are a conspiracy hobbyist and you want seem relevant. I understand. You've been corrected and yet you refuse to accept the corrections. Instead you try and fit a square peg into a round hole.

You've never spoken with one witness, let alone RR- which Aldo Marquis spoke with twice, yet you want to forcibly tell people what they saw.

You have 0 aviation experience. 0 engineering experience. 0 any experience other than conspiracy theorizing from behind your computer. You can't even illustrate your silly and impossible NoC impact theory.

Thank God you are a nobody confined to a crappy conspiracy theory forum.

Yes, you showed your feathers again. And your usual anger.
And it's getting boring, the answers without any inherent content, only mean insults.

I see you from now on as a disgrace for the 9/11 truth movement, and will not talk to you anymore.

There was one orange painted VDOT trailer photographed behind that dirt mount along Route 27 its west side, between Route 27 and its entrance lane coming from the last leg of Colombia Pike.
I have lately posted that photo, with the trailer just behind the mount.

This is that same sandy mount, but from an aerial photo, at the left from the little white oval with 27 in it :



The smaller yellow circle has the two white right legs of the "H" painted on the Helipad in it, so you can place the impact point correctly.

And one nearly under the Pike overpass. Where pole 1 was laying up in the grass beside that overpass bridge its railing.
I have lately posted a photo of it, standing down there.

This is another, third VDOT trailer used to transport broken or repaired light poles by VDOT personnel, left behind near the downed light poles, and found on a 9/11 photo :

Originally posted by LaBTop
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

ANOK meant that dirt mount on the west side of Route 27, thus not blocking the view of drivers on Route 27 to the impact point, but for all the visitors of the CITGO station. But again not for anyone in the 8th Wing of the Annex, or anywhere else, so I also do not believe it was meant to block views, it could however been to hide that VDOT lorry that could have been used to bring the already broken light poles to their early morning, still dark, 9/11 "broken poles" positions. There was also a lorry parked a few meters from the spot where the last leg of the Pike went under Route 27, conveniently close to the two first "by AAL77's wings broken" light poles.

I know full well what he meant. He was using the dirt pile to manufacture innuendo of impropriety I.E. a conspicuously placed dirt pile prohibited everyone from seeing what REALLY hit the Pentagon. Isn't THAT interesting (wink wink), and he tryiny to parlay THAT to get people to think that noone saw what hit the Pentagon. He deliberately, as in consciously and intentionally, omits the fact that a major higway runs right by the impact area and he deliberately, as in consciously and intentionally, omits the fact that hordes of people specifically saw what hit the Pentagon. He does this because these CIT people pushing this flyover mythology are lying through their teeth so to keep these claims alive he has to lie through his teeth as well.

When his zeal to push these conspiracy stories gets so disingenuous that he has to rely on doctored photos...which I might add, can be revealed to be doctored by a simple 30 second Google search...it's clear he's behaving out of selfishness rather than the desire to know the truth. He wants other people to believe in these stupid spunding conspiracy claims regardless of what the truth is, and I don't have to tell you that these truthers spreading lies like to was some kind of game makes everyone else wanting further investigations (including me) look like laughingstock by association. THAT is what I find so offensive about the truther movement.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


""makes everyone else wanting further investigations (including me) look like laughingstock by association. ""

I must say I agree with that.

z3.invisionfree.com...

Another R.Roberts 4 page thread, now at the CIT forum. It was November 2010, and I did not word by word translated yet, both R.Roberts his audio files. I used the one posted at CIT that time.
Later, at ATS and in my PfT thread, I posted my own translated version and quoted from that.

In this CIT thread, I suppose RR talked in a military manner about the direction he saw the low incoming AAL77 coming from. He used the compass rose, translated in a wristwatch.
While he stood at his position at the center of the dock, he saw AAL77 appear in, for him, the 12 minutes past 9 position on his wrist watch, while he was standing with his back to the south wall, and wearing his watch on his left hand, like most people do.
The minute hand pointed thus in the southwesterly direction, AAL77 was coming low from over the Annex.

R.R. : As I hang up the phone [audio gap (1:30) ] the plane hit the building. [gap?] It all came at the same time, watching the TV, it was like, it was almost timed for preciseness. So uh, as I hung up the phone and I ran to the center of the dock and I looked up, and I saw another plane flying around the south parking lot about like 9:12, 9:11 in the morning. And then uh there was dust and some stuff coming from the ceiling and you could hear people scream. So what I did was, I turned around and I drew out my weapon.

Time line of things he mentioned :
First he mentioned he saw the New York second plane hit the building in New York ( "watching the TV" ).
Secondly, he ran outside, and sees AAL77 coming from the southwest, thus he saw it flying around the south parking area, just above the light poles there (he said in another interview), and he adds the additional info that it flew somewhere in the 12 past 9 position on his wristwatch.
Thirdly, he mentions dust and stuff coming from the ceiling and people screaming.
Fourthly, that triggered him to draw his weapon.

Not his first sentence remark that "the plane hit the building". That was in NY.
No, only when he heard people scream after the dust and stuff coming from the ceiling.

There are three pages more in that CIT thread, worth reading when you understand that the whole CIT and PfT fly-over theory pivots around one man's witness accounts, Roosevelt Roberts. All the other things they come up with is total hogwash, their main witness is RR who they interpret as a fly-over witness, and he is not.
The whole bunch is busy to cut away RR's one important clue in page 2, that he saw the plane above Lane 1 of the South Parking lot. They try to bend his words as meaning a totally different lane, near the far, opposite side of South Parking. That's ridiculous reaching for straws.
In page 3 the whole bunch falls over one poster, trying to let him leave "voluntarily".
If you are curious about the suppressive methods which are standard behavior like it seems there, you should really read that page 3.
It's disgusting online behavior by site owners, in extreme.

That poster "realitycheck77" however stands his ground heroically. This is his last page 3 post, at the bottom of that page :

Calling the question irrelevant and berating me for asking it is not answering it in my view. If the answer you mean is that the plane flew up river after flying over the Pentagon then that is an answer you gave in an interview you did one and half years ago - I don't think it's reasonable to hold people to things they said that long ago ,which is why I asked the question.
A plane that flies low over the Pentagon and up river just can't be seen by Roosevelt Roberts. It can't be seen anywhere near the lane one area of south parking because it can't get there having flown over the impact point. If a plane after flying past the Citco gas station can't get to the bridge and the lightpoles, then it surely can't fly past the gas station,over the road , over the impact point and then over the lane one area of south parking. There is a limited area a plane flying over the building can fly into and for most of it Roosevelt Roberts can't see it. It can only fly right across the approach/departure paths of the airport runways where the air-traffic controllers couldn't miss seeing it.
Can you not see how contradictory the heading for this forum is- anyone who is intellectually honest has to come to their own conclusions based on their own assessment of the evidence, not on someone else's.

Fine last sentence words by him. His two other posts including the last page post there, should be a fine hint for real researchers, to avoid that vitriolic CIT forum as the Plague.

I could keep on posting links to my ATS posts regarding RR, after my CIT posts about RR, but let's keep it civil, and let's wait if Roosevelt Roberts ever comes out again, to clarify his position at 9/11, and his words. I am sure CIT and PfT will not be pleased then.
I am not going to waste more words on this RR subject.

Regarding the notion of a north side plane impact:

Roosevelt Roberts' account is not necessary to prove a flyover. The NoC witnesses do that just fine on their own.

There is a reason that CIT's most fervent detractors such as the Frustrating Fraud, Jim Hoffman, and screwloosechange's Pat Curley have openly agreed with them that NoC = Flyover. This is because it's obvious to anyone with remedial intelligence that this is the case.

Besides the fact that it's simply ridiculous to suggest the plane hit while all observable damage inside and outside the building (light poles, generator trailer, & C-ring hole) was STILL staged, amongst other reasons, we know for a fact that there was no north side impact because the north side light poles were all still standing as documented here:

THE REQUIRED LOW AND LEVEL IMPACT VERSUS STANDING POLES & OBSTACLES ON THE NORTH SIDE PATH

It's physically impossible for the plane to hit the building as required low and level on the bottom floor yet still leave these light poles standing.



Each of the light poles indicated in the image above are documented with photographic evidence in this convenient side-by-side pop-out here:

NoC light poles documented

If the plane hit on the bottom level from the north side some of those poles would have to be knocked down. Unlike the impossible NoC impact "theory", the flyover logically explains WHY they staged the downed light poles, the damaged generator trailer, and the blown out C-ring hole; because the plane did not hit!

Rational, logical, people (as well as most irrational people) who look closely at the evidence easily understand this, just as for years before CIT ever came along millions of people worldwide already understood that no plane hit simply by looking at the lack of plane debris and damage to the building.

NoC = Flyover. It's a scientific fact that merely confirms no plane hit the Pentagon as already believed by the vast majority of 9/11 skeptics/researchers.

Originally posted by ANOK


LOL are you kidding, did you miss the pictures, and link, I provided?

The level of denial is getting ridiculous.

How can those pics be anything but what they are, mounds of dirt erected just before 911, and removed right after it was cleaned up? What am I, or the author of the website, mistaking them for? Do you have any idea why they would erect dirt mounds? How can you not see the obvious convenience of it all?

You need to do better than try to brush it off as a mistake in observation.

I saw the pictures. But unfortunately they don't have any of the information that you're filling in with your fevered mind.

We aren't told that all the mounds are temporary or when they were erected or when they were taken down. We aren't shown their extent or how much they obscure or for what viewpoints.

None of the stuff stuff is in the photographs. You've looked at a few pictures, mixed them with your prejudiced view and claimed that the result is proof of something. It is not.

In the first photo a mound which you say obscures the pentagon actually has a man filming from behind it! If he can't see anything but the dirt then he can't be getting very good pictures.

Originally posted by ANOK


mounds of dirt erected just before 911,

Going back in time on Google Earth shows they were working on the retention pond next to the Citgo (the reason for the dirt mounds) on 4/6/2000.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by ANOK


mounds of dirt erected just before 911,

Going back in time on Google Earth shows they were working on the retention pond next to the Citgo (the reason for the dirt mounds) on 4/6/2000.

I don't understand. The photos show that the mounds were erected just before 9/11 and taken down straight after. Don't they?

Originally posted by ThePostExaminer

 

Besides the fact that it's simply ridiculous to suggest the plane hit while all observable damage inside and outside the building (light poles, generator trailer, & C-ring hole) was STILL staged, amongst other reasons, we know for a fact that there was no north side impact because the north side light poles were all still standing as documented here:

It never fails. Sooner or later, the truthers ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS play the "secret agents" card to explain all the monstrous holes in their claims. It's just another way of saying "I have no rational way to explain what I want to be true so I'll just invent my own evidence to fill in the gaping holes."

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by ThePostExaminer

 

Besides the fact that it's simply ridiculous to suggest the plane hit while all observable damage inside and outside the building (light poles, generator trailer, & C-ring hole) was STILL staged, amongst other reasons, we know for a fact that there was no north side impact because the north side light poles were all still standing as documented here:

It never fails. Sooner or later, the truthers ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS play the "secret agents" card to explain all the monstrous holes in their claims. It's just another way of saying "I have no rational way to explain what I want to be true so I'll just invent my own evidence to fill in the gaping holes."

Now we swing to the other end of the scale.

From one person hijacking a perfectly reasonable thread regarding the NOC evidence to another who blindly accepts what the authorities say apart from when the authorities' version of events don't suit.

"Invented evidence" as you say.

You don't see the hypocrisy there Dave?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Going back in time on Google Earth shows they were working on the retention pond next to the Citgo (the reason for the dirt mounds) on 4/6/2000.

OK, so that explains it all then.

Regardless of why they were built, they blocked the view of the impact point from many areas, the Citgo obvioulsy.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Dave, are you serious? You mention alleged witnesses being physically able to see the Pentagon attack from the Washington Monument.





Where were they? On top of the monument? In a helicopter? (You do know that image was taken from altitude don't you?)

Jefferson Memorial circled in one or two of the following images at the base of the monument for bearings.

i30.tinypic.com...

i29.tinypic.com...

i31.tinypic.com...

i31.tinypic.com...

i26.tinypic.com...

Just in case you don't get the point, look at the high rise buildings 100-145ft asl to the West of the Pentagon, taken from the top of the Washington Monument.




Can you see them in the images above?

Want to read testimony from somebody who was actually at the Washington Monument? Stuart Artman.

ARTMAN: I was standing at the Washington Monument.

HILL: Okay! Uh, like when you-- when you were at the Washington Monument, did you-- you saw the fireball come from the Pentagon and everything?

ARTMAN: Well, I saw the plane -- or A plane -- and if you just look around the sky you see planes all the time, so divert my attention to something else. And then it was only a mere-- few min-- seconds later if you will that I saw the smoke plume if you will coming from the Pentagon. Cause you can't see the Pentagon directly from the Washington monument.

(...)

ARTMAN: Yeah, I-- I didn't see any other plane. And you know when something like that happens, you never can anticipate what's gonna happen next. So you see a plane, you're at the monument looking at the monument and your attention is focused somewhere else, and then, in a matter of seconds later, you see a smoke plume, and then the world shuts down. So, what-- what could it be? Did I actually see it hit? No. Cause you CAN'T. Not from that vantage point.

Your "arguments" are weak and very easily debunked Dave. I hate to burst your bubble.

reply to post by ThePostExaminer


NSPO-6-2.jpg image by Ligon911 on Photobucket
This is the photo by Ligon (PfT + CIT member), with that VDOT flatbed trailer in it (Object A) , it is parked beside/behind that dirt mound ANOK talked about.
My above posted strong magnification from this photo was not enough to place it in its context, this photo ads its value to the ongoing downed light poles discussion :

i511.photobucket.com...




This one, and the one under the Route 27 overpass over the last part of the Pike, are two parked flatbed trailers photographed within minutes after impact, but are no more than eventual additional evidence, to add to any stronger case for a NoC flight path. It's no hard, but soft evidence however. It becomes hard evidence only, when the man that has parked them there, so near to photographed downed VDOT light poles, eventually ever comes forward to tell us that he brought broken poles to their destinations with them.
No real chance that will ever occure, since he does admit then, that he was part of a huge cover-up and a false flag operation.

reply to post by ThePostExaminer




This is indeed quite a good image of a NoC flying 757-200 on its last 150 meters before impact.
Flying about 220 to 250 MPH, in a slight right bank and a nose-downward attitude (in a not too steep descend).
Did you ever spend a good look at the shadow length of those light poles? If not, they were 30 feet high, 9.14 meters. Minus the 3 meters high impact point, that's a difference of only 6 meters to overcome over a length of 110 meters (110 yards). No hard pull-up as you people suggest, just a shallow descend, at a very shallow angle to the ground.
And no damn obstacles of importance, as Balsamo keeps bringing up.
Why on earth you think that that plane you drew in the above picture can not clear those light poles in its way, and not impact on the first floor slab, is beyond me :

files.abovetopsecret.com...




As you see above in my corrected picture posted by Craig Ranke, my red line shows a low over Terry Morin flying NoC leading plane, that flies left from the row of trees, low in front of the west side of the CITGO, and clears all the light poles along Route 27 and impacts at the second floor slab of the west wall from the Pentagon. No wild impossible flying involved, just a steady shallow descend at about 220 MPH. Just like the NTSB showed in her AAL77 animation, except they showed a higher end speed.
It does not even come near that VDOT radio mast in the parking on the south side of the Columbia Pike running south olong the Annex buildings.
No impossible G-loads at all.

But your 9/11-truth-confusing fly-over theory needs that pull-up you try to shuffle in my shoes, with its resulting G-load.

If you think otherwise, show me your calculations, or shut up.

And I am not interested how that plane that Steve Riskus saw crossing over Route 27 just behind those two trees with that slight nose-down attitude came at that spot just beside those two trees, I know what all these Route 27 witnesses say they saw, and you can not deny that.