So who exactly are these "Fake Jews" mentioned in Revelations 2:9 and 3:9?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

(On Israel)

It was indeed prophesied,and that is why a huge swath of Christians support it.

What was prophesied?
That Israel would be founded by a modern political movement

It does not say how it would be founded. Just that it would be.

and go on to become of the most oppresive regimes in the modern world?

They would actually start of Godless, then would finally know their God.

Im sorry, but theres nothing "prophetic" about modern day Israel.

Read the Bible

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by The time lord

 

Not all Jews have high foreheads and many non-Jews also have high foreheads.

Care to elaborate further?

If you look at the pictures of them old and new a lot of them have high foreheads then couple that with their intelligence level concerning what they have done for the world with science, film, finance and business.

At least 185 Jews and people of half- or three-quarters-Jewish ancestry have been awarded the Nobel Prize,1 accounting for 22% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2011, and constituting 36% of all US recipients2 during the same period.3 In the research fields of Chemistry, Economics, Physics, and Physiology/Medicine, the corresponding world and US percentages are 27% and 39%, respectively. Among women laureates in the four research fields, the Jewish percentages (world and US) are 38% and 50%, respectively. Of organizations awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, 25% were founded principally by Jews or by people of half-Jewish descent. (Jews currently make up approximately 0.2% of the world's population and 2% of the US population.)

Chemistry (32 prize winners, 20% of world total, 29% of US total)
Economics (28 prize winners, 41% of world total, 53% of US total)
Literature (13 prize winners, 12% of world total, 27% of US total)
Peace (9 prize winners, 9% of world total, 10% of US total)4

Physics (49 prize winners, 26% of world total, 37% of US total)
Physiology or Medicine (54 prize winners, 27% of world total, 40% of US total)
Jewish Recipients of the Kyoto Prize (25% of recipients)
Jewish Recipients of the Wolf Foundation Prize (33% of recipients)
Jewish Recipients of the US National Medal of Science (38% of recipients)
www.jinfo.org...

So if they do hold a pure bloodline which of course Adam was of the purest genepool then they hold some of it more than most other races and if the 144,000 exist in the future then they must come out of these lines or hidden bloodlines not yet discovered or born yet. It is not racism because Jesus had to be a Jew along with the prophets.

Then add the fact that no other group has been driven to extinction and survived as much as they have while they continue to fight for their survival.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Noey777

 

You decended from the Hebrew tribe, this is part of your ancestory. So many people get mixed up between what exactly is Jewish bloodline and Hebrew bloodline. There is no such thing as Jewish bloodline.

Actually it was my post he was replying to. He just forgot to quote and endquote around it. I was the one who was sharing about the J2 gene.

reply to post by Noey777

hey Noey --

Your silly racist zionist LINK that you foolishly provided ref the genetic ‘racial’ basis for modern 'Jews' is so full of gross errors of fact that it is a veritablee insult to all thinking persons on ATS – as well as being an embarrasment to you - and to all persons on the planet who style themselves ‘Jews’ to-day.

Here’s an example of the idiocy in your LINK that you should have known better than to post in the first place :

QUOTE: “Only the Jewish people in the history of mankind has retained its genetic identity for over 100 generations, while being spread throughout the world –- truly unique and inspiring...” etc.

This is an outright fabrication and smacks of overt racist-zionist propaganda – and is (in fact) not-true AT ALL - not one shred of concrete geenetic-scientific evidence can be brought forth to support it - the evidence actually points directly in the OTHER direction. No group on earth is so biologically DIVERSE as persons who style themeselves 'Jews' to-day as genetic research has proved in recent years.

The truth of the matter is that if one were to take e,g, a 100 persons who to-day style themselves ‘Jews’ and line them up to examine their current genetic makeup, you would not come up with anything like a single ‘race’ or coherent genetic haplotype in any modern scientific definition of the word- and certainly nothing that would link them closely to any blood haplotypes in ancient Canaan and Palestine. The most you would come up with would be Uzbeq/Turko/Ukrainian haplotypes common among to-day’s Ashkenazim, the modern day descendants of the converted Khazars.

Your silly LINK also makes absolutely NO reference at all to the well-established historical fact of the Khazarian Conversion (read Arthur Koestler’s 'The Thirteenth Tribe', or some of Cambridge Professor Solomon Schechter’s alarming discoveries in the Cairo Geniza of the Ben Ezra Synagogue including original letters from the converted proselyte Khazar kings – which he asked NOT to be published until 75 years after his death !!) of the Turko Ukranian gentiles to a form of (‘Ashkenazi’) Rabbinnic Judaiesm between the years 760 and 960 CE in the area around Kiev.

Nor does your factually empty LINK mention the more than 400,000 gentile Berbers from North Africa who likewise converted to Judaiesm in the middle ages and became genetically mixed with the so-called Sefardim in Spain between 800 CE and 1200 CE – thereby throwing off the ‘palestinian Judaean’ Haplotype even further.

Neither does your LINK discuss the embarassing fact that following the forced deportation of 24 Judaean & Israelite priestly families (‘kohenim’) as a result of the Babylonian Exile (priests and anyone else with money who could read/write or foster a rebellion were forced marched from Palestine beginning c. 587 BCE) which resulted in only FOUR of the original 24 Judaean Priestly families (kohenim) ever returning to Palestine –
In case you did not know, the rest (some 20 cohenim families) remained to interbreed with the gentiles in the areas around Babylon, producing what we to-day would call ‘Kurds’ and ‘northern’ and ‘southern’ Iraqi’s (and even some modern day Iranians !) over the centuries.

You’ll notice that it ALSO makes NO mention of the haplotypical genetic ‘gentile’ miscegenation that had occurred over a 1000 year period in Eretz Yisr’oel (Egypt, Syria, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome - all GENTILE nations which invaded and cconquored Israel to pour their own gentile genetic material into the local Judaean populations.


You need to do a little more historical research about these genetic ‘gentile’ haplotype influxes if you want to understand the current 'genetic' deployment of persons who style themselves 'Jews' to-day – e.g. the fact that after 515 BCE, the remaining 20 priestly ‘Judaean’ families when the 2nd Temple was being reconstructed in Jerusalem after the Exile, the priestly organisations in Judaea had to be ‘filled in’ (i.e. genetically) with non Jews/goyim/gentiles known as ‘nethinim’ (Netinim, or Nathinites or Nathineans) (=: הַנְּתִינִים ‘given ones’) who were non-Judaean gentile blooded haplotypes that further removed the ‘kohenim’ genes away from any Canaanite roots....why don’t you do yourself a favour and look up the word – and, naturally, not a single syllable of all of this integral part of the haplotype history of the Judaeans in your silly zionist racist silly-LINK !

Therefore even to speak of a ‘cohen’ J2 gene that exists to-day to identify ‘Jews’ in the modern world is utter nonsense – I would suggest therefore that the next time you post a LINK, be sure to read it VERY carefully first.

Think about all of this the next time you post something as mindless as your LINK on an ATS thread – you’re sure to be ‘found out’ sooner or later !

Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by Noey777

hey Noey --

Let's get back to this, I was the one who posted the J2 gene in the first place. Noey just forgot to quote and endquote.

So if we are going to attack someone on genetic haplotyping links and the history of ancestral DNA, you should discuss that part with me. Even if he did post a link, it was in reply to my post. If you had read my post, you would have seen where I said even though I have that gene, means nothing more than that I descend from other people who also have that gene. I said it does not make me Jewish, but rather, I have ancestors who were.

I think this was a needless attack because of a misunderstanding, that I had already tried once to get you to see it was my post. So please, if you would like to discuss this with me, I am free and capable of holding a coherent and logical discussion.

reply to post by WarminIndy
[
Well then...Warmy

Riddle me this : would YOU have posted such an utterly banal zionist-racist LINK as Noey did?

If so, we have LOTS to discuss, you and me. If not, well, then, 'nuff said.

But, please be VERY careful about making any claims about the so-called J2 gene as it is purported to be related to any group that calls themselves 'cohenim' i.e. priests- and their purported genetic relation to Canaanite haplotypes. These priestly groups are more or less extinct within all the various worldwide species of Judaeisms as they exist 'in the wild' today

Recent genetic advances have more or less ruled out that persons who style themselves 'Jews' to-day are a single identifable 'race' based on haplotype genetics (Judaiesm is a Religion. not a Race) -

Although admittedly, the Khazarian-Ashkenazim converts from CE 760-960 around the area of Kiev have produced some coherent Uzbek-Turko-Ukrainian haplotypes - but these are quite genetically distinct from any of the mixed semitic blood types found in the various haplotypes found in populations of pre 70 CE Judaea - which were thoroughly mixed in with the goyim due to numerous invasions of gentiles (and numerous forced deportations) since the time of the supposed 'united' monarchy...

Clear as mud? Or would you like another round?

Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by WarminIndy
[
Well then...Warmy

Riddle me this : would YOU have posted such an utterly banal zionist-racist LINK as Noey did?

If so, we have LOTS to discuss, you and me. If not, well, then, 'nuff said.

But, please be VERY careful about making any claims about the so-called J2 gene as it is purported to be related to any group that calls themselves 'cohenim' i.e. priests- and their purported genetic relation to Canaanite haplotypes. These priestly groups are more or less extinct within all the various worldwide species of Judaeisms as they exist 'in the wild' today

Recent genetic advances have more or less ruled out that persons who style themselves 'Jews' to-day are a single identifable 'race' based on haplotype genetics (Judaiesm is a Religion. not a Race) -

Although admittedly, the Khazarian-Ashkenazim converts from CE 760-960 around the area of Kiev have produced some coherent Uzbek-Turko-Ukrainian haplotypes - but these are quite genetically distinct from any of the mixed semitic blood types found in the various haplotypes found in populations of pre 70 CE Judaea - which were thoroughly mixed in with the goyim due to numerous invasions of gentiles (and numerous forced deportations) since the time of the supposed 'united' monarchy...

Clear as mud? Or would you like another round?

edit on 4-11-2011 by Sigismundus because: stuttering commmputerrrrrrrr

No, I am not anti-Semitic and would not post anything that leads to that. The reason I posted in the first place was to show how the definition of who is a Jew has led to terrible ideas about people who are Jewish.

And I don't believe God lost anybody, He knows where everyone is and they will be revealed in His time and in the way He wants.

If civility disappears in this thread, it WILL be closed.

Simple as A B C.

Who are those Jews? They are the ones who John wrote about: "He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
They are the ones who put their faith in traditions: "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men..." Mark 7
They are the synagogue of Satan because they trust in works, not is Christ.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Did God prophesy that the Jews would come back? Read Ezekiel 37.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

They would actually start of Godless, then would finally know their God.

Yeah, right.
The followers of the jewish religion have rejected the messiah for 2000 years ago, ever since he went to them in person. Jesus is absolutely incompatible with Judaism.

So to think that they would suddenly change and accept Jesus is downright delusional.
But Im sure it makes perfect sense to you, because you also believe that the bible foretold the establishment of this modern Israel... with all its godlessness, atrocities and abominations.

www.haaretz.com...

The followers of the jewish religion have rejected the messiah for 2000 years ago, ever since he went to them in person. Jesus is absolutely incompatible with Judaism.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You didn't read Ezekiel 37. They are back in the land, but they are not converted yet - not breath from God yet.
They will recognize Him. Zephaniah said: "Zechariah 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God."
Or, you can check out Romans 11. It explains things clearly: And so all Israel shall be saved:...As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. " They have had trouble since they turned down the Messiah, but they are still beloved of the Father. Don't be hateful to Israel. The Bible still says: "he (God) kept him (Israel) as the apple of his eye" And he is continuing to do so.

reply to post by shapeshiftress


What you just said is the same old christian excuse of the jews because the bible says that they will be saved some day. (Actually it says only a remnant will be saved)

Jesus did not go up to the Israelites and tolerate their rebellion saying "oh dont worry, do as you please... you guys will change your ways some day". He did not even take seriously their claim that they were descended from Abraham...saying God could make descendants of Abraham from rocks.

You didn't read Ezekiel 37. They are back in the land, but they are not converted yet - not breath from God yet.

Read Ezekiel 22.
God says : "Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst therof."

This might explain why the jews have been gathered in one place.
(read the second link in my sig)

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by shapeshiftress

 

What you just said is the same old christian excuse of the jews because the bible says that they will be saved some day. (Actually it says only a remnant will be saved)

I agree. And it is the same for the rest of the world as well.

Jesus did not go up to the Israelites and tolerate their rebellion saying "oh dont worry, do as you please... you guys will change your ways some day". He did not even take seriously their claim that they were descended from Abraham...saying God could make descendants of Abraham from rocks.

John the Immerser said that.

He knew that they were descendants of Abraham. He was calling them out for not following the Torah. They thought that they could be saved because of their bloodlines, when it has never been about blood lines. It has always been about obedience to YHWH.

You didn't read Ezekiel 37. They are back in the land, but they are not converted yet - not breath from God yet.

Read Ezekiel 22.
God says : "Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst therof."

This might explain why the jews have been gathered in one place.
(read the second link in my sig)

Ezekiel 22 already happened dude. 70AD.



-I will disperse you among the nations and scatter you through the countries; and I will put an end to your uncleanness. When you have been defiled in the eyes of the nations, you will know that I am the LORD.’”-


They are regathered, because it was prophesied to happen.

Jer 3:14 "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband. I will choose you--one from a town and two from a clan--and bring you to Zion."

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


The theme of Israel being punished/saved appears in several places throughout the old testament.
So one living in these times, cannot exactly pin point whether a particular OT verse involving Israel is referring to a past event or a future one. At best we can speculate, and to pick only the verses where it all ends well for Israel is dishonest.
(My thread about Ezekiel 22, was aimed at considering an alternate take on understanding the bible)

Even if jews are "saved"... I doubt they would remain in that jesus-rejecting religion. So why should christians give them special treatment now?
If their godless deeds were condemned then, there is no reason why it should not be condemned now.

P.S - Youre right. I wrote Jesus instead of John.

reply to post by The time lord
[I would have to say the reason these people are so very intellegent is that their Kenites! Kenites have decended from Cain and Cains father was Satan and Satans a Chereb therefore making him supernatural, no other peoples could have conjered up the evil plan that they have, and in a sick sortta way it's brilliant'.

Some of the truth of all this really is "Stranger Than Fiction" whatreallyhappened.com...

reply to post by mezedok7


I would not go so far as to call Jews children of Satan.
Nowhere in the bible does it say that Satan fathered Cain... and nowhere does it say that jews are all descendants of Cain.

The proper semitic jews are descended from the Abrahamic family through Jacob.

reply to post by The time lord

If you look at the pictures of them old and new a lot of them have high foreheads then couple that with their intelligence level concerning what they have done for the world with science, film, finance and business.

The jews are intelligent people, no doubt. But intelligence is not exclusive to any one set of people. I wont get into that discussion here.
Measuring intelligence through Nobel Prizes is like measuring musical talent through the Grammys or record sales.

So if they do hold a pure bloodline which of course Adam was of the purest genepool then they hold some of it more than most other races

All of us come from Adam... so I dont get your point.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Actually, you can know exactly when stuff happened based on context clues.

reply to post by The time lord

Old & new testament are both given by God. I try to be christian, not JW, but you are wrong about the JW's. They acknowledge Jesus Christ as king appointed by God over heaven & earth, until Jesus hands the earth back to God filled with righteous people who love both of them. I won't be there, but on my life, they will be. If I could stop doing bad things, I would become one of them because they absolutely love God & have understanding of him. I would taint their congregation if I were to join them, so I will just have to rely on God's mercy. They, on the other hand, have God's love, & are the only people that openly use his name. they have God's blessing. you are mistaken in your thinking, & should really find out their beliefs before you demonize them. What you said is not true. they understand the Bible, they have wisdom, & because I know this & don't be obedient, it will no doubt kill me, but I say it any way. They are the new Jerusalem. Jehovah is the name God gave himself. His friends can use it. Peace.