What Started OWS and why are they upset? READ

So you'd have to be living in a cave to not be aware of the OWS protests taking place all over. Personally I'd also say you'd have to be living in a cave to not know what this OWS movement is about at this point, but clearly many don't.

since I'm bored, and tired of repeating this here's my attempt to show you what they think the problem is and why they are protesting. No, they don't want a free ride. No, they don't want YOUR money.
(apparently the image upload function is disabled. Great timing on that one guys, so you'll have to clicky clicky)

The productivity/wage chart says it all. From 1947 until the mid-1970s real wages and productivity (economic output per worker hour) danced together. Both climbed year after year as did our real standard of living. If you’re old enough, you will remember seeing your parents doing just a bit better each year, year after year. Then, our nation embarked on a grand economic experiment. Taxes were cut especially on the super-rich. Finance was deregulated and unions were crushed. Lo and behold, the two lines broke apart. Productivity continued to climb, but wages stalled and declined. So where did all that productivity money go? To the rich and to the super-rich, especially to those in finance.

Actually the top tenth of one percent. Because of financial deregulation and tax cuts for the rich, the income gap is soaring. Here’s one of my favorite indicators that we compiled for The Looting of America. In 1970 the top 100 CEOs earned $45 for every $1 earned by the average worker. By 2006, the ratio climbed to an obscene 1,723 to one. (Not a misprint!)

As women entered the workforce, family income made up for some of the wage stagnation. But now even family incomes are in trouble. Meanwhile, the incomes of the richest families continue to rise.

To add financial insult to injury, the richest of the rich pay less and less each year as a percentage of their monstrous incomes. The top 400 taxpayers during the 1950s faced a 90 percent federal tax rate. By 1995 their effective tax rate – what they really paid after all deductions as a percent of all their income – fell to 30 percent. Now it’s barely 16 percent.

When the rich become astronomically rich, they gamble with their excess money. And when Wall Street is deregulated, it creates financial casinos for the wealthy. When those casinos inevitably crash, we pay to cover the losses. The 2008 financial crash caused eight million American workers to lose their jobs in a matter of months due to no fault of their own. The last time we had so much money in the hands of so few was 1929!

We bailed out the big Wall Street banks and protected the billionaires from ruin. Now we are being asked to make good on the debts they caused, while the super-rich get even richer, some making more than $2 million an HOUR! It would take over 47 years for the average family to make as much as the top 10 hedge fund managers make in one hour.

Both political parties are occupied by Wall Street. For nearly an entire generation they have competed with each other to gain campaign contributions in exchange for tax breaks and regulatory loopholes for the richest of the rich. Today’s so-called financial reforms are porous, while the money continues to flow to both parties.

The reckless gambling on Wall Street tore a hole in the economy sending millions to the unemployment lines. Wall Street caused the enormous spike in unemployment and no one else – not the government, not home buyers, not China.

It’s bad enough that unemployment is sky-high. But it’s even worse when you can’t find a job for months, even years. Right now the number of unemployed for 26 weeks or more is at record levels. Many of the long-term unemployed will never work again.

Too big to fail is alive and well. Our nation’s biggest banks are growing larger and larger with no end in sight. Despite what politicians say, the taxpayer will bail out the big banks again. And the big banks know it.

[url=http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/152811/the_shocking%2C_graphic_data_that_shows_exactly_what_motivates_the_occupy_movement_/?page=1]Source[/u rl]

Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men.
True, they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit, they have proposed only the lending of more money.
Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored conditions. They know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers.
They have no vision, and when there is no vision the people perish.
The money changers have fled their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths.
The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.
Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money, it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort.
The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow-men.
Recognition of the falsity of material wealth as the standard of success goes hand in hand with the abandonment of the false belief that public office and high political position are to be values only by the standards of pride of place and personal profit, and there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing.

Franklin Roosevelt, first inaugural address in 1933

So there you go, in a nutshell, this is the core problem these people want addressed. There are many aspects to it and many of the problems won't be easy to solve but there is a very simple and rational starting point.

Pay your fair share. you worked hard for you money, don't you think you deserve to keep it? Why should it be handed over to the government, out of per portion to that of the top 10%, and then given to the very banks that caused this financial crisis?

Click here for more information.

reply to post by knightsofcydonia

So you think that CEO's should have a salary cap? your a facist and you dont even know it. tread carefully.

Care to point out where I ever even hinted at that? I support a fair and equal tax system where everyone pays their fair share, this is not the case. That's what I support.

Salary Cap? No, I don't endorse that at all, you should be free to make as much money and be as greedy as you want. but you shouldn't be given tax breaks and loop holes to play while those who are barely scraping by see their taxes increase.

If that's fascism then I guess I'm a fascist.

But....

Fascism is when the government and corporations collude together at the cost of the people, which is exactly how the US is being run.

Not to mention the fact that the bailout money was received by companies who were failing because of labor unions to prop them up and those companies are still failing and those political contributions on Wall Street were mostly going to democrats and Obama.

Your whole movement is an oxy moron and is based on lies.

reply to post by thehoneycomb

Not to mention the fact that the bailout money was received by companies who were failing because of labor unions to prop them up and those companies are still failing and those political contributions on Wall Street were mostly going to democrats and Obama.

You mean the auto workers unions? They didn't cause the financial collapse, the banks did, the same banks who pocketed YOUR tax dollars.

And this isn't "MY movement" I merely support one of the goals.

Great post OP, S+F.

I love capitalisim, but what i do not love is greed and taking advantage of the people who get it done. There is no reason anyone needs to rake in millions per year as personal income.

Its bs. I work for a company, i have a pretty technical job, and everytime they lay some one off that has worked here for 10+ years that makes a pretty good living, they hire some one else for less and less, just to see how much they can squeeze out of new hires. And when I reach that mark, there is no doubt in my mind that my loyalty will be rewarded with a pink slip.

I hope it all comes crashing down.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Right ok.


Just point the finger at someone else to distract us as the thieves are the ones pointing the finger take off with all the loot.

Originally posted by knightsofcydonia
So you think that CEO's should have a salary cap? your a facist and you dont even know it. tread carefully.

many sheeple are too dumbed down to understand..

the america which was great was COINCEDENTALLY 1948-1972 (roughly)..That is the america people long for, where every man has a chance..

Do you not see the charts of tax rates??? That is the entirety of the ISSUE..

Disposable income is that which is left AFTER living expenses.. that which is you know....disposable...making the working poor pay for everything which was once paid by the richest..90% tax rate at one point also was when AMERICA was something everyone either was proud of or LONG FOR..

today its like slave owners having slaves which are not even provided the basics..Do you not recognize the conditioning from the Public Fool System (dept of Indoctrination) that has permeated at best a mediocre intellect doused by flouride and who knows what else?

After living expenses, what does the avg guy have left in order to give for the societical endeavors. (roads, schools, etc)
THAT IS WHY EVERYTHING IS CRUMBLING!! the disposable income is all in the hands of the few...

WHO REFUSE TO pick up the slack THEY created and BENEFIT from..duh

I have since the 90's, compared the american economy to the game of monopoly..Would anyone care to disagree?

And who would, if forced to play, would rather step into a game that is started fresh or a game where some ohter guy has been playing previously, own half the board, and watches the majority of players go round and round collecting $200 everytime passing go only for it to end up in the hands of the guy who had more than everyone else at the get go?

in a game that never resets, is there any chance of winning if you weren't in the winners seat from the start?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


omg!!! im agreeing with a ................. canadian..


joke...

I would give my left _ _ _ to be able to live in victoria forever..only place i've been to there and it was suweet.

It couldn't be part of a campaign strategy, Could it?

Afterall there seems to be some interesting connections. And with current dissatisfaction despite the capture and deaths of bin laden and gadaffi, what better way to look good than to encourage that anger early, direct it and have it end before it is time to vote? Brilliant strategy if that is the case. Provided no one finds out of course

reply to post by Ahabstar


If that is the case then it is failing badly. I have been fiercely loyal to Obama, sure that everything was the fault of Congress, I still blame Congress for much of our financial mess, however since OWS, I think I am seeing something that I didn't want to see. It's all of them and we HAVE to do something to change it, and I'm pretty sure that I am not alone in newly found disappointment with Obama. He will still win, that was guaranteed by the failure to put forward a candidate that can do better and which took place before OWS was a headline anywhere. I will always be a liberal but I am finding myself in our current State of the Union, gravitating toward center.

reply to post by Kali74


the centers not so bad.

Did you know there are around 70 card carrying socialists in congress?

reply to post by thehoneycomb


You have the right to have whatever opinion you want, but if your going to just spout BS your going to get called on it.

Did you know there are around 70 card carrying socialists in congress?

Here's some stuff from Politifacts that might not sit so well with the worldview your espousing.

The posts, all of which piggyback from a single offering that has been replicated on dozens of websites in recent weeks, says there are 70 card-carrying Socialists in the House of Representatives, including Rep. Earl Blumenauer, another Democrat from Oregon. (The number actually varies. Some posts say 70 while others insist it’s either 73 or 76. One post used both 76 and 75 in the same entry.)

So that's where you've been getting this misinformation. What do the real card carrying socialists have to say on this matter?

The list that Cofall and dozens more rely upon "is completely fraudulent," said Frank Llewellyn, who served as national director of the Democratic Socialists of America for 10 years until stepping down July 5. There is not one member of Congress who is a formal member of the DSA, Llewellyn said. In order to join, a person must fill out a form and pay dues. Even Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, is not a formal member of the DSA, Llewellyn said.

So what does Politifacts rate the veracity of these claims? It's not just a lie it's a pants on fire lie.

Misinformation and smear campaigns also are part of political life. But these persistent claims about socialists are riddled with errors and outright lies. Any one of the problems would be sufficient to discredit the report, but taken together, the effort is flagrantly false. For that reason, we rate this claim: Pants on Fire.

Source:www.politifact.com...

It might be worth noting that business donations are to both major parties, and that business top execs are at least as likely to vote for Democrats as Republicans.

Yet, OWS is almost entirely liberal in the ideology of its supporters..

Since that seems "off" at first glance; perhaps a little research as to who started it and how, might be useful-- perhaps that answer suggesting a hidden agenda which is contrary to the purpose most of those participating have assumed?

Yeah, let the folks in power rape and pillage at will, but see those people over there protesting about this, watch out for them, they might have a hidden agenda.

Originally posted by Frira
It might be worth noting that business donations are to both major parties, and that business top execs are at least as likely to vote for Democrats as Republicans.

Yet, OWS is almost entirely liberal in the ideology of its supporters..

Since that seems "off" at first glance; perhaps a little research as to who started it and how, might be useful-- perhaps that answer suggesting a hidden agenda which is contrary to the purpose most of those participating have assumed?

It really doesn't matter where the idea started. I think everyone who goes to these things realizes the entire system is screwed. They won't vote for anyone, because they see the entire system is a scam right now. Everyone has their own ideas, some are there for the environment, most for social and economic change. Theres a mix of everything. The main point is, people want drastic change.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this thread! It definitely shows the problems. I am surprised some people are not able to see the corruption and greed of Wall Street even when it is literally put right in front of their faces. I applaud you for this and thank you greatly. OWS has always had an agenda, no matter what any MSM reporter has said - get the rich to pay their fair share and stop taking taxpayer money which is rightfully the people's and force CEO's to change their greedy, oligarchic, anti-democratic profit-hoarding inhumane practices which make the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Ok...I hear ya.

Those are valid complaints.



What are the solutions?

There are many solutions to the problems you have presented...I don't support all of the solutions...so not any solution will due.

So what is OWS propose as a solution?

Until that question can be answered, I can't support it.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

So what is OWS propose as a solution?

Until that question can be answered, I can't support it.

edit on 27-10-2011 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)

Why not? I would rather the OWS be honest that there isn't some easy quick fix solution to such a giant problem than to propose something stupid that isn't actually going to do anything. The fact of the matter is that there isn't a solution, not one that will satisfy you at least, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. The only thing we can do is bring more attention to the problem and make it something mainstream. If this is in people's heads, then they will act differently at the polls and vote for politicians who will support the people over corporations.

When people get it in their heads that the anti gay marriage and the pro gay marriage candidate are both being bought off by the same guys and that in the end, everyone is suffering, they will stop voting for people based on silly wedge issues and start looking at the real issues. Once the people demand politicians to care about the real issues, then real change will occur. It won't be some sort of "solution" that OWS can propose and enact, but it is the beginning of a massive change of consciousness for the general American, who before OWS, probably didn't even realize they were getting screwed over.