Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world

and without a HUSH or breath....millions of bashers who bashed the NWO/corporate global control model are banished to the litter box forever

147 companies...all it takes


most are financial institutions and public...most of the banks trade/provide a market for these public companies on the NYSE, NASDAQ, in London, Germany, etc

that is one of the X factors on how they control a company without a majority stake btw that the guys in the study don't get yet

Originally posted by septic

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by septic
reply to post by seabag

 

Your combative and belligerent attitude, not to mention your avatar, imply military training. Few people are as indoctrinated as the military; if so, you deserve a break.

Spoken like a true brainwashed Liberal.

When you accuse others of being that which you clearly disdain, it says more about you than it does about them.

I'm informed, not indoctrinated like you. Let me know when you're ready to have an intellectually honest debate. Until you do your homework and realize capitalism is what made our country great then you'll never get to a point where you can identify and attack the real problems.

You have some pretty strong feelings about me and we've barely met. Intellectual honesty might begin without name-calling, which for me at least, hasn't been a problem.

Divert...deflect...distract. I didn't expect you to try to defend your position about why capitalism is bad. Just stick to your script. 

And by the way, I don't know you. I'm attacking your ideas that you've posted, not you personally. Sorry if you are offended. 

reply to post by seabag


I don't think you should be using corporatism and capitalism as if they are different entities per se, they are not that way in the first instance, it is all capitalism, just that capitalism is a conventional stepping board for corporatism. There was never anything wrong with capitalism as free enterprise, the torture began with simple greed and desire of extreme power over everything, simple monopoly. Corporatism is corruptism, cronyism and nepotism all rolled into one, and overrides the everything else including the law/uses the law for the purpose. I don't give a toss what the fibre-optic tree means to impress, there is no 'chaos' theory out there in regard to corporatism, it is all under control by a very few cronies, the real inner circle, and has been before the word crony was even in use.

Originally posted by smurfy
reply to post by seabag

 

I don't think you should be using corporatism and capitalism as if they are different entities per se, they are not that way in the first instance, it is all capitalism, just that capitalism is a conventional stepping board for corporatism. There was never anything wrong with capitalism as free enterprise, the torture began with simple greed and desire of extreme power over everything, simple monopoly. Corporatism is corruptism, cronyism and nepotism all rolled into one, and overrides the everything else including the law/uses the law for the purpose. I don't give a toss what the fibre-optic tree means to impress, there is no 'chaos' theory out there in regard to corporatism, it is all under control by a very few cronies, the real inner circle, and has been before the word crony was even in use.

There is a HUGE difference between capitalism and corporatism! They are not interchangeable! When you eat food it turns into feces. Can we agree on that? That doesn’t mean all food is feces, does it?

You need to look closer at what is causing this problem, friend. There is a way out of this problem. The way out is not throwing out the FOOD, it’s finding out what’s turning the food into FECES. Don’t blame the food!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I see the details and see how magnificent God was in painting his creation. The fools say there is no God, those that see are blind, the foolish things in life confound the wise and lastly, wisdom is found in the tiny not the mighty.

I would argue that your statement requires an absolutely non-inferential approach to the article.

Corporations are bound to pursue profits (by definition in our current economic model.) This profit motive can justly be described as exponential growth. If this were not the case, shares would not fall in value when companies fail to grow to an acceptable amount. They do.

In pursuit of this growth, the economy has self-organized into a tightly-knit small group of major influence (article) and this state of being, while natural, creates vulnerabilities that are not well understood. It also breeds a dependence on each other's financial success for the continuation of their own in the form of shareholdings and other investments (article.) It would be a very small leap to say that this state of being is self-defeating when it comes to competition and the core values of a capitalist economic model, since it reduces or eliminates competition, and creates substantial barriers to entry for upstarts who are required to align with the established structure in order to survive (article.)

While you may not have meant it at all in this fashion, your comment about centralization indicates that the article makes a statement about it. It does. It states that this could cause vulnerabilities, but the solution advanced is not a free market solution, but global anti-trust laws. Again, the only reason anti-trust laws are ever required is because centralization of power created by unimpeded growth is detrimental to the functioning of an economy.

So, to reason from the data presented, or even to say that the article makes some very compelling points about the nature of exponential growth as it relates to free-market capitalism would not be entirely without basis. Certainly, it does not say "exponential growth is bad for the economy" in direct terms, but to infer that conclusion from the data presented is completely valid.

reply to post by Electrum
Electrum.

Sorry to take so long to reply this this thread, but I accidentally dumped one reply just before posting and then other stuff has prevented me from returning earlier.

If it's not to late to talk along a nitty gritty level, let's give it a try.reply to post by Electrum
I think that we see pretty much eye to eye in our understanding of corporatism. However, here

Number 1 Truth: Free market capitalism is the economic system which human beings naturally develop

you say that capitalism is (the), whereas I say it is (an) economic system which human beings naturally develop. And the concept that we develop this or any economic system is also, for me debatable. I hold that human development and our economic systems develop in tandem, each influencing the development of the other in accordance with the needs of changing environmental requirements.

You go on to say

Number 2 Truth: Corporatism (i.e. Fascism) is one outgrowth of a capitalistic system that has been subverted from its pure form in order to appropriate to the State/King/Oligarchy/Robber Baron that which does not belong to them.

. Here you suggest the existence of a "pure form" of capitalism. I see no such "perfect" system. I hold that our economic systems reflect whatever stage of development we are going through at whatever time and that they are all relative to our situations. Natural as you say above, but not "pure" or "perfect". Relative and mutable.

So, capitalism is a natural state of humankind. It is the only way for men and women to live together in a fair state of equality, with liberty for all. But! to maintain capitalism's true intent, purpose and righteousness, there must be constant vigilance.

Well here I agree that constant vigilance is a necessary part of the equation if we want to extend the benefits of any economic system to everyone
When you speak of true intent, purpose and righteousness I also have to question the nature of this capitalist system. Once again I see the system as relative to the people in it. There were at the founding of our nation, people who wished to live and let live but along side of them were others who's intent was to subjugate all within their paths and exploit them and the environment to their own ends. This is an undeniable reality of our national history.

America was set up as a Republic (not a Democracy by the way). And this republican form of government was based upon and sworn to uphold capitalism

Can you link me to where this oath was taken or written down in the constitution?

Once our Republic became subverted with mob democracy, our free-market capitalist system became corrupted and corporatism ensued.

Mob democracy? I thought we were under the impression that it was

the so-called Robber Barons who created corporations.

and not mob democracy.

I understand capitalism as being natural as you state above. I do not however find it to have ever been perfect, or pure. I do not believe there to be perfect systems of human interaction. As you point out there needs to be constant vigilance on the part of the populace. Capitalism has flaws, short comings which as in any system can be exploited by those with a lesser sense of our human community than you or me.

Our humanity encompasses a wide range of emotions and states of mind. Not all of us would exploit each other if given the chance. Some of us will. Capitalism for all of it's benefits, allowed those who would exploit their neighbors to rise to levels of economic freedom which then allowed them to further heights of exploitation. This is the Corporatism that we both despise because not only does it exploit, it enhances a system which feeds on drawing more and more people into the system of exploitation. I do not believe this to be the natural state of man.

Our natural state as I understand it is not just one of competition. It is one of competition and cooperation. The way we used to bring down the bigger and faster and stronger beasts, was not by individual endeavor. It was by cooperation. The balance between these two avenues of human interaction, competition and cooperation, is to my mind central to the question of or economic systems. Capitalism is proudly hailed as the engine of economic wealth due to the competitiveness it promises, however this competitiveness easily turns into exploitation when cooperation is left behind.

We have a common enemy. The corporatists. They are raping and pillaging our people and our world all under the auspice of capitalism. I thinik we not only need to expose these bastards and their bastard corporate system, but the flaws within the capitalist system as well, which allowed them to flourish and transform into corporatists in the first place.