How difficult is it to get a patent?

I am starting to fill out the info on Legal Zoom (damn pricey if you ask me ~$600) and I see where it is for a provisional patent which is good for a year. I am not sure what happens after the year? Do I re-file something to make it a full blown patent or is that automatic? Does that cost money as well? If so, why not just give you a patent on your invention, why the "provisional patent"? Any help appreciated. Thanks!

reply to post by pityocamptes


Well, now it's nearly impossible due to the law they just passed last month.
Unless you have patent lawyers and can pay them to patent every conceivable version of your invention / idea, then the large corporations can file a patent on your invention / idea and own it.

Sad, but true. Look it up. Better keep a TIGHT lid on your invention / idea until you get it fully launched.

Im not too sure.....but i know its pricey.

You need patent lawyers....as well as the patent. Id imagine to get a worldwide patent would cost in excess of £10,000

Originally posted by pirhanna
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

Well, now it's nearly impossible due to the law they just passed last month.
Unless you have patent lawyers and can pay them to patent every conceivable version of your invention / idea, then the large corporations can file a patent on your invention / idea and own it.

Sad, but true. Look it up. Better keep a TIGHT lid on your invention / idea until you get it fully launched.

Can you elaborate? Is this the "streamline" law Obama did that was supposed to make it easier to file a patent? Thanks! Anyone else?

don't know for sure but I read once that something like 90% of patents are rejected the first time. Apparently you have to go through a lengthy process involving multiple submissions.

Is nothing easy anymore???

I found this:

blogs.wsj.com...


but I am still not sure how this would affect small business/inventors? If I go through legal zoom I can get a provisional patent, how can a larger corp steal this from me if I already have a provisional (assuming I can get one)?

reply to post by pityocamptes


A provisional patent is only there so you can develop your invention further and find investers, manufacturers or buyers. A patent can cost tens of thousands $, £. depending on your invention.

The last patent I filed for was in the early 1990's. It wasn't too bad, but it cost quite a bit by the time it was all over (several grand). I went through an attorney who was a friend, so I got a lot of the work done at a discount.

@Partygirl - No, nothing is simple anymore. Try starting a small business (retail) and all the hoops you have to jump though. Not fun.

What is your idea?You can trust me.

Thanks. So with the patent info in mind, should I # can the notion of filing and just start making the product for sale? Kind of in a catch 22... thoughts? Thanks.

Originally posted by brindle
What is your idea?You can trust me.

Thats what my wife said...

Originally posted by pityocamptes
I found this:

blogs.wsj.com...


but I am still not sure how this would affect small business/inventors? If I go through legal zoom I can get a provisional patent, how can a larger corp steal this from me if I already have a provisional (assuming I can get one)?

Yes, they can still "steal" it from you because the owner of an invention or idea (according to the new law) is no longer the original creator of the invention, but just whoever "patents it first". Corporations with lots of capital can make extremely minor changes to the invention (multiple times over) , and then effectively own all the patent rights for it, because the original creator has no legal standing to say he was the original creator any more.

Yes, this is the "streamline patents" that Congress & Obama passed last month.

It streamlines large corporations ability to effectively steal individuals inventions.

Best way to deal with this is to create this in extreme secret - make sure everybody signs legally binding non-disclosure agreements - and be prepared to roll out production at the same time as your patent application. If done correctly, you can possibly get one of the big corporations to make you an offer for the idea, but you will have to take their offer or they will bury you.

That's how patents work now. (unless you have patent lawyers at your desposal to provide a continuous stream of patent applications - and the money to file them all)

reply to post by pityocamptes


I just recently went through the "To patent, or not to patent." question. Bottom line: Is it an absolute game changer that everyone, and his 3 legged dog could easily copy, and make million$ at. In other words have you developed cold fusion using only popsicle sticks, and old gum wrappers? If not, don't bother. I am assuming you are applying for a patent in the US. If not I may be wrong, but I think patent laws are at least similar in other countries. A patent is only good for 20 years. This begins at the time you are granted your provisional. So if it takes you 19 years, and six months, and $100K to get the patent you are protected for 6 months, and it goes retro for the last 19 years, and 6 months that everyone, and their 3 legged dog have been, up til then, legally copying you, because you have to disclose your design to the patent office, and that info is public. After the 20 years from original granting of provisional is up anyone, and there 3 legged dog can now legally copy you, and they have very detailed plans for doing so.

What does a patent really get you? If you find, and prove(it is your responsibility, and liability.) that someone is directly, and exactly copying you. You can hire a lawyer, spend hundreds of hours, and thousands of dollars suing them, and you will PROBABLY win, unless they have better lawyers, and more money than you. Patent lawyers make WAY, WAY, WAY... more money than inventors. There are no patent cops out there. It is your responsibility to search out people copying you, and do something about it. If they are from another country then you're still screwed. They just can't legally sell in your country(IF, big IF you catch them.), but you have to find them, and then hire an international lawyer to settle things. Now we're talking tens, or hundreds of thousands of dollars to protect your invention. Also in international law you have a greater chance of losing even if you do have a valid patent, and they are infringing, just because international politics is now involved. So unless your invention is potentially worth at least hundreds of millions, or billions of dollars, a patent has very little bang for the buck.

You would be much better off being the first, and staying the best maker of invention "X." Let others copy if they can, but always be a little better, a little faster, a little more desirable etc... Playing the patent game can seriously swallow all of your development money, and even if you get a patent you may not be able to give your product a starting chance because the lawyers got fat off your work, and left you with nothing, but a patent.

YAY! I have a patent on a gizmo I can't afford to build, market, or improve.

Also if $600 is a bit pricey for you, you absolutely cannot afford a patent. A friend of mine was an electronics engineer for Hughes for 20 years. He got a patent for a crosswind control system for aircraft safety. Cost $240,000, and took 3 years(this was quick, and relatively cheap, he had help). When it went to market he sold zero of them. The airline industry's response? "That's why we pay insurance." The invention cost less than half a fuel up, and would save lives, but the airline industry is not concerned with your safety, only THEIR liability. Also his patent expired in 2006. Guess what is on a lot of the new aircraft built after 2006? A crosswind control system!!! I'm sure it was just coincidence though.

Thanks! That is an eye opener. So I guess I am left with just building it, and selling it, and making the most of it.

reply to post by pityocamptes


OR you could license it to a manufacturer....if its any good

You get a small percentage of the profits...but if it sells well (manufacturer wouldnt want it otherwise) you could make a nice few quid from the royalties

Lots of inventions never hit the market because people are too greedy. Without an outlet for the product its worthless. A small percentage of millions of £$ each year is better than 100% of nothing.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

OR you could license it to a manufacturer....if its any good

You get a small percentage of the profits...but if it sells well (manufacturer wouldnt want it otherwise) you could make a nice few quid from the royalties

Lots of inventions never hit the market because people are too greedy. Without an outlet for the product its worthless. A small percentage of millions of £$ each year is better than 100% of nothing.

Thanks. I would rather keep this in house, and not a corporate thing. Things are better hand made in America

Now what would happen if I don't get the patent, start selling it, and someone else copies the design or patents it based on my design? What recourse do you have? Thanks!

reply to post by pityocamptes


If your invention is fairly simple, and uncomplicated to build, and does not require a lot of overhead in materials, machine equipment etc... to build you may be better off keeping it in house. If production costs, and manufacturing needs are even moderate going it alone is next to impossible. I tried to build a device in house with standard equipment because it was all I could afford, instead of commercial heavy duty equipment because it was 10X more expensive to begin with, however when the demand for the device accelerated the equipment broke, and all profit was lost replacing equipment. Also manufacturing is a full time job plus some. Marketing is a fulltime job plus some. Bookkeepping, and accounting is a full time job plus some. If you're mom didn't have triplets you're in trouble.

As far as someone else copying you if you don't have a patent: If they do, your best recourse is to simply make sure your product remains superior. Your only recourse is to have the better product at a competitive price. It's a free market, and ultimately competition is good. It keeps you on your toes. This would be equally true even if you did have a patent because they can be circumvented, and you might not even realize someone is copying you for years, and again it is your responsibility to find someone copying you, and pursue it. There are no patent cops. If you build it first, and someone else gets a patent for it, you simply prove to the patent office you were building it first, and their patent goes right out the window, no refund. It is a matter of due diligence on their part for not finding out someone was already doing it.

It is also true that 20% or 30% of several thousand, or hundred thousand dollars if it is a really marketable product is better than 100% of nothing if you can't get it off the ground. This is coming from the voice of experience. Been there done that. Getting it off the ground is far more difficult than you have thus far imagined. Even if it is a great product.

You need to study medicine, become a doctor...and then you can get patents...

Akushla