Christians: Convert Each Other First Before Bothering Me.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

Imaginary sword(threat of hell) you use now.

Correct, at a minimum you caught that, good job. So here is what I'm trying to find out from the OP, he/she condemns telling folks that a fiery hell awaits them unless they repent. So I'm wondering if the Islamic alternative is what they suggest. The OP has been quite supportive of Islam in past posts.

So, again, should we Christians use the sword to make conversions like Islam does??

Honestly, I would suggest using evidence to lead people to believe something, instead of scaring them with threats(either threats of this life, or threats in the next). The problem though, is that all the cases I've seen that attempted, the 'evidence' produced has always been very one sided if not downright deceitful.

If you believe all the facts lead to your book being true, instead of threatening inhumane torture being caused by a loving god who wants to punish you in the worst possible way ever, just because the evidence of him wasn't apparent enough for you, causing you endless torture while loving you. You could instead politely ask them to study on there own, all the facts from every side, try reading the bible and books other view as holy. Look at science, and where people claim it falters. Ask them to pray, not just to your god, but to all god's and see which one if any answer. If your beliefs are right, the person will see that. If they don't see that, then you did your best, and they did nothing wrong other than not being granted proper evidence.. And your loving god will commit the cruelest act ever commited(hell) to punish them along with so many others for a non-crime.

Let people see the way, without lying them to the way, and definitely not threatening them in any way to see your way. How hard is that? Or do people tend to see a different way when given a fair chance? If so, that still doesn't justify any other means of trying to persuade them. Do you think Muslims are justified with threats, lies, or anything other than fair choice to convert people? Just because you believe your right, that doesn't mean your elevated and are justified for things you wouldn't think so for others who believe they're right(and thusly think they're elevated too).

~
I would rather be killed in this life for not believing in the right god, than be tormented eternally for it. Allah's law(also used to be Yahweh's law) of killing the non-believers, is many times more graceful and loving than Yahweh's current law of sending them to hell.

Just throwing that out there.

~
P.S. When I sent you a PM regarding if Hell was even a biblical idea or a doctrine added later, you ignored me. I didn't want to revive the dead topic, you were the one I was talking to, so I sent PM to you instead. I would've liked at least an agree-to-disagree response to verify you got it. It seemed hypocritical to me that you were willing to ignore things contrary to your views when you didn't have the rest of the forum there to see that you were doing it. Then again, maybe you had a justified reason to not respond, I can't say I know if you did or didn't..

I'm just saying, it's a bit of an impasse to be talking about threatening people with hell, when we hold opposite views on the matter, and you don't want to discuss that matter. I will add though, that if hell isn't biblical, it only adds to the immorality of using it to scare people.

There is a way that seems right to man... So most would prefer such and such and blah blah blah.

Fact is, that the base emotion to drive people toward God begins with fear. As the Bible says...

reply to post by graphuto


If it helps you and makes you feel good, then I wish you much fear! As for me, I choose Love, Peace, and Hope

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


If someone doesn't want to talk about it you don't pressure them. Most of the time the Lord leads people who ask me questions who are really looking to convert to Christianity.

reply to post by Sahabi


That's great. And I love Christ and follow Him. He taught more about Hell than He did about heaven.

Originally posted by graphuto
I agree with the basic premise of the post, that we need to get together on the same page before we go out preaching. Easier said than done, my friend. There is a ministry called Wild Branch Ministry that reconciles Judaism with Christianity. So much resonates with me.

If every Christian and Jew were to watch JUST THIS VIDEO, not to mention the countless hundreds of others in relation to Wild Branch Ministry, we'd all be on the same page here.

www.yah-tube.com...

I'm glad that it is acknowledged by some that Christianity is so splintered, it needs to remove the plank in it's own eye before criticizing the speck in the eye of the non-Christians.

Originally posted by graphuto
Because we don't want anyone to be eternally seperated from God?

I know, I know, most people can't grasp that concept, because there is nothing in it for US.

If God is All and the Creator of All... The First, The Last, Alpha and Omega... Omnipresent (everywhere), Omnipotent (all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing).... if He personally breathed into us the breath of life... How can anyone be separated from God? No one can! So no point in Christians worrying about non-Christians ever separating from God.

Originally posted by graphuto

Originally posted by Sahabi
Fear is a huge control mechanism. Religion and scare tactics were probably very much needed to help civilize savage and barbaric people in days long gone. The 'Knowledge of Good and Evil' runs through all of our veins, we don't need someone trying to 'scare us straight' in order for us to live an upright life anymore.

THIS is the problem. We have the knowledge of good and evil running through our veins instead of the knowledge of "LIFE!"

God doesn't want us to have this "LIFE" that you speak of! It is this very "LIFE" that made God fear Adam to kick him out of the Garden of Eden! Yep, Adam's banishment wasn't about disobedience or eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil;

"And the LORD God said, 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.' Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." [Genesis 3:22-24 King James Version]

Yes, but he did this because they broke their covenant with him. Since they disobeyed him, they were no longer worthy to eat of the Tree of Life.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by UniverSoul

 

Fear is a huge control mechanism. Religion and scare tactics were probably very much needed to help civilize savage and barbaric people in days long gone. The 'Knowledge of Good and Evil' runs through all of our veins, we don't need someone trying to 'scare us straight' in order for us to live an upright life anymore. Collectively as a species, we still have a lot of work to do, but we have come a long way since Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were around. Equality, Love, and Freedom are soooo close

I think the Christian with understanding, is saying that the wrong sap is running through our veins, and that we need to go to the tree of life, wherein good is good for goodness' sake (righteousness). It's the duality of separation that's killing us, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which leads to destruction.

reply to post by NewAgeMan



Yes, I agree with you my brother. I do not deny such things. May Peace be upon you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Should we use the sword to convince people to convert like Islam does??

The OP makes some excellent points about how christians themselves are not in agreement ... and you try to deflect the topic towards Islam?

And no, Islam does not convert people by the sword.
Speaking of Islam... you will find that muslims, for the MOST part have no arguments over the nature of God, the roles of the prophets, Jesus etc. They seem to be clear on many matters that christians are arguing about among themselves.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

If someone doesn't want to talk about it you don't pressure them. Most of the time the Lord leads people who ask me questions who are really looking to convert to Christianity.

If true, the problems with typical christians attempting to convert don't apply to you. Point standing, you can find good examples of people trying to bring others into islam to. Don't point at the worst of one and then pretend there's only the best of another.

~
And as Scorpion said, you haven't address the topic at hand either. The different christian faiths are all different in some degree's, and a lot in drastic ways. Why would that be when people have personal connections with God, Jesus, or are inspired by his holy spirit?

reply to post by Sahabi


Star and flag for you, Sahabi, you make a really good point here. All of these different Christian "sects" (I call them "cults") see the other sects as teaching the wrong message, and some even call the other sects devil worshippers. I have yet to meet one of these "take Jesus into your heart or go to Hell" people that has researched their own religion and holy book. They just seems to take it at face value, and what it boils down to is this:

They believe what another person tells them, and they think their inner voice is some kind of "saviour" that they must "worship." My inner voice thinks they are all mind controlled, and ignorant of the truths that stare them in the face about their own ways and practices.

reply to post by Sahabi


Being a Christian means we believe that Jesus is the Christ our messiah and only way to salvation.

That we all agree on... everything else after that is a side issue.

And that is why we will continue "bothering" you in a hope you'll one day see spiritual sense.

As believers all we are really trying to do is prevent you from having a second (Spiritual) death. But only the Holy spirit can truly "convert" you all we can do is attempt to lay down the foundations.

In the end the choice to accept or reject God is totally your decision, be it the most important decision you'll ever make in your entire existence.

Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer.

And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NA

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)

How many people pray daily to bring 'em food and water? Every day 60.000 people day of starvation and believe me, they pray to any god to give 'em something..
Omnipotent suddenly doesn't look so potent at all...

reply to post by infinitecuriosity


You forget the part where any bible verse that's proven false is now non-literal(though in some cases it's ignored that it's been proven false, not this). Jesus was being non-literal. Of course you can prove it wrong, he didn't mean it literally.

My interpretation is that the 'Ask and I shall receive' statements were false but intended literally, but the mustard of faith moving a mountain couldn't of been literal because jesus would have known that anyone could turn around and prove him wrong about it. Even though he did seem literal when he supposedly did the literal act of ruining an innocent tree using the power of faith then talked about what else it could do, so I guess if he meant that one literal would be up to interpretation.

reply to post by infinitecuriosity

And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.

I've received everything I've ever prayed for except one specific thing. And I know why that hasn't been answered yet, but I have faith that too will be given from the Lord.