God Hoards Eternal Life While Jesus Promises It?

John 3:16..... this may very well be the most famous verse in all of Christendom.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." [John 3:16 King James Version]

So here we have it. Believe in Jesus and you'll get everlasting life. Personally, I prefer the NIV or NIRV version of this verse for reasons obvious to me, but that's a whole 'nother topic!

Does anyone remember why Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Who just said "for disobeying God," or "for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?" Let's be honest now. If you stated these reasons or anything even similar... you are wrong. Let us have a look at what happened;

"And the LORD God said, 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.' Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." [Genesis 3:22-24 King James Version]

What was that? Adam was removed from the Garden of Eden so that he would not eat from the tree of life and live forever? Right here it pretty much says God doesn't want us to have eternal life.

So if God refused eternal life to Adam, the very first man created by God... why would God give eternal life to us "lowly sinners?"

reply to post by Sahabi
Please see Matthew 18.3:

And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Same deal, different details. Children come into the world innocent and blameless, loving all. They only learn perversity and sin. Adam and Eve's original state is what it is to have "faith like a child".

And this is what we should all have. Love and wonder for the world and each other, and not judgement or hatred for each other.

If Adam ate from the tree of life he would have had immortality as a sinner in a fallen state with no chance of reconciliation with God.

I believe it is how you see it. How you see creation, life, morals, God(s), Jesus, and so on. There is no one interpretation of the bible. Everyone has their opinion. I have found this website where it describes the early authors of the Adam and Eve were inspired by astrology and the Zodiac. I do not know who you are or what you believe. But you should be interested in seeing what this author claiming the original authors of Genesis were influenced by astrology.
The Garden Tour

Welcome to the Garden of Eden. The people who make a living off the Bible, insist that the Garden is somewhere in Mesopotamia. They're full of it. The Garden is the area of sky within a circle of stars called the Zodiac. To prove that point, we are going to visit many of the stars (pun intended) of the Bible. Thanks to Star Myths, we have available to us, an artist's depiction of the classical constellations in lifelike form. So there is no need to decipher star patterns.

I cannot answer for something like internal life but wanted to share these links with you and others. Maybe it will come in use.
Creation

Originally posted by micmerci
If Adam ate from the tree of life he would have had immortality as a sinner in a fallen state with no chance of reconciliation with God.

+1.
This is exactly the point of their expulsion from the garden.

Look at mankind?? Would you want us all to be automatically granted eternal life? Immortality??????
Personally, I feel that while many people will earn it with no trouble whatsoever, there are a lot of people out there that need to work on it. It shouldn't be a given. As a whole, we just dont deserve it. We need to live here on earth, struggle, fail a few times, strive to overcome the worst aspects of who we are in our soul. Then maybe we will have earned the right to immortality. But I would not want it to be a guarantee.
Also, remember that they ate the forbidden fruit. In that one act they showed arrogance, disobedience, and defiance, weakness, and gullibility and greed. Maybe if they had stood against temptation and declined to disobey, God may have at some point given it to them freely. He did, after all place it there. Perhaps He fully intended to share with them when He had seen they were worthy. But by acting as they did they showed Him that there was much within them that made them unsuitable for eternal life without sacrifice, toiling, prayer and penance. So He cast them out to give them that chance to grow spiritually and regain their lost position. He could have just said "You disobeyed, I will destroy you". He didnt, He gave them a human life. For better or worse, it is the life we all have, and it is an amazing life full of mistakes to make, lessons to learn, yet so much joy and happiness to be found for any that seek it. What a wonderful life. And if I have to be patient and faithful and work hard to earn my immortality, so be it. I cherish all the growing that my soul has undergone.

reply to post by Praetorius


I have to disagree. Adam and Eve's original condition was enslavement. What is "good" if it is forced? What is to truly be "alive" if there is no choice. The light bringer brought us choice, and pain. If these stories happen to be true in some weird way, then I would say that Yahweh and Lucifer both deserve a swift kick in the *ahem*.

To keep us dumb and ignorant is one thing, to call it pure is another. Purity is reached when one sees the truth and the interconnectedness of all things. One ceases to see the duality between good and evil, light and darkness, hope and despair. Once one sees beyond Yahweh's veil of blindness, then one can see the eternal truth that encompasses all. This illusion is temporary, remember that. Our consciousness crafts...it crafts the greatest things that this universe has ever seen. Without it, we are slaves to the whim of whatever thinks it created us.

Food for thought. Yahweh and his friends seemed quite afraid when man almost became like them...it will happen in due time, and there will be hell to pay. The slave shall come to stand equal to his master in due time.

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by Praetorius

 

Food for thought. Yahweh and his friends seemed quite afraid when man almost became like them...it will happen in due time, ...

Yes, it will.

"How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:1-2).

reply to post by TheOneElectric


As I understand it, Adam was created in the image of God. He had the finite characteristics that God had. He was being taught and trained in the garden.

Wouldn't you agree that a baby needs to be protected from certain things and gradually exposed to dangers and philosophies outside of whatever the parents' philosophy is? Although Adam was created as an adult, he certainly was an infant in a moral and spiritual sense.

But like a rebellious child, he succumbed to the temptation of "having it all NOW". Who knows how his training with God would have progressed if he had not chosen to eat the forbidden fruit?

reply to post by micmerci


In fact, Adam was not the one who sinned first. Eve was the one tempted - as found in Genesis 3, of course, but also:

"For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (1 Timothy 2:13-14).

Adam and Eve were given a single commandment... probably because God knew that they would disobey. Had this single command not been given, then there would have been no transgression and no sin, and there would be no free will.

reply to post by Sahabi


You must be kidding . God is the Father that Jesus prayed to . Jesus is the Lord that came down and took flesh and offered himself for a sacrifice for our sin . God the Father sent him . So God the Father offered Jesus up for sacrifice for your sins .The only way to everlasting life is through Jesus and you must pass from thislife to have it . Just as Jesus had to take up flesh to die , so must you die to receive everlasting life as Jesus has . The only two people that have not died as of yet is ENOCH and ELIJAH and they too will die in the steets of Jeruselam . God said it is appointed unto every man to die once .
Study harder !

Originally posted by TheOneElectric
reply to post by Praetorius

 

I have to disagree. Adam and Eve's original condition was enslavement. What is "good" if it is forced? What is to truly be "alive" if there is no choice. The light bringer brought us choice, and pain. If these stories happen to be true in some weird way, then I would say that Yahweh and Lucifer both deserve a swift kick in the *ahem*.

To keep us dumb and ignorant is one thing, to call it pure is another. Purity is reached when one sees the truth and the interconnectedness of all things. One ceases to see the duality between good and evil, light and darkness, hope and despair. Once one sees beyond Yahweh's veil of blindness, then one can see the eternal truth that encompasses all. This illusion is temporary, remember that. Our consciousness crafts...it crafts the greatest things that this universe has ever seen. Without it, we are slaves to the whim of whatever thinks it created us.

Food for thought. Yahweh and his friends seemed quite afraid when man almost became like them...it will happen in due time, and there will be hell to pay. The slave shall come to stand equal to his master in due time.

Your choice, of course. But please clarify, enslavement to what, exactly? Is the goodness of a child, or one mentally retarded "forced"? Is the evil of one left to the influences of the world as we know it and those around them "good"?

How is ignorance of the mere weight or effect of something a lack of choice? Perhaps I can agree that from our limited perspective we might feel that those involved deserve a kick in the patoot (sp?), but to try to judge such that are so alien and beyond us is simply - well, silly, for lack of a better term.

As far as ascribing fear to such acts...well, perhaps, but it seems more to me like when some of our experiments may draw the line too close to our own experiences. Are we afraid, or are we merely cautious of the possible effects on some level or another (consider genetic experimentation and so forth, and permutations on a magnitude of order greater than such)?

So much we would like to claim knowledge and understanding of, while groping in the dark. As far as an 'eternal truth that encompasses all'...well, when one takes a simple look at what we've done with the knowledge we've been given, and how the scum rises to the top - can you honestly say that access to life immortal for those with the will to do such as they will (in addition to a good many poor subjugates) would be a worthy option?

Food for thought indeed. We are already enslaved, on the whole...I can't imagine giving even more power and life to the select few would be a wise thing by any means.

Be well, and blessed.

reply to post by Sahabi


I just got done with a discussion with God, and he told me that he was fustrated at the time and he made a mistake. He also said he won't be making that mistake again.

I think God was embarrassed. lol.

reply to post by wiredamerican


Well...prior to the Flood:

"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain" (Genesis 6:5-6).

However:

"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will" (Ephesians 1:11).

in response to God Hoards Eternal Life While Jesus Promises It?, God kicked adam and eve out because they chose the tree they were forbidden to partake from.Actually there was no wrong OR right choice,that was the whole point, for them to choose. Thats it, they chose and reaped the consequences of said choice.In genesis the text reads (paraphrase )"I dont want you to do good or to cease from being evil" He wanted them to choose.After all that is required to make a choice is at least 2 different things to choose from. He offered a contrast,one that offered eternal life and one that basically offered man the Knowledge of good and evil.He isnt hoarding anything, he offered man a choice and man (along with some crafty manipulation from one Satan snake slithering about in the garden),made that choice.Whats so difficult to understand about that?
I hope you people dont think that Jesus was ever outside the plan God had from before the foundation of the world.I mean if you believe that God is all-knowing,then you have to believe that he knew what we would choose and had already made provision for that in the form of Jesus Christ.Satan earned the deed to the earth from Adams choice,God provided a way to get it back through Christ.We are born with the nature of the devil,(not to be confused with evil),we do what we learn.Our nature is derived from the choice of Adam,at such time as we become aware that there is another choice,Jesus,we can be saved from the Satan nature.

reply to post by Sahabi


You'll have to interpret it how you wish with this context alone. It doesn't say why God wouldn't let them have access to the tree of life. It just says he didn't. We're left to figure out why by reading the rest of the story that comes after this.

If you want more context you would have to read the rest of the Bible to try and figure out which is the most likely context to interpret the story from. But in the end you'll have to pick the context that makes sense to you.

All I can do is give you the mainstream interpretation of the story based on the full context of the scriptures. In other words, all I can do is tell you how most believers read the story. But that doesn't mean you have to agree with their view. It's just to help you understand where they're coming from and possibly where the writer/writers were coming from.

Most believers agree that the moral of the story is that God didn't want us to have eternal life because he didn't want humanity to live for eternity in sin with no way out of sin. He wanted to provide us a way to get rid of the sin.

That from our perspective, the state of death is something permanent. To the Bible however death is not permanent.

That we become reconstructed clean from sin as an eternal being after death. Then we can exist for eternity without sin. We just can't see the other side of death right now. So we can't see that part, so we don't know if that part of the story is true.

But according to believers, either way we would exist for eternity. According to the Bible death is like a form of travel to another place or context of being. Not a permanent state of being.

But the moral of the story is that God didn't just want us to exist. He wanted us to exist as sinless beings of energy and that somehow happens through the process of death. But of course we don't understand how that's possible because we can't see the other side. When everyone is raised at the end.

Assuming the interpretation is correct, the problem is that what happens after death to make the story make sense is something we don't know. In other words we're missing information about the process.

When you're missing information you can't make an informed decision about what you've been told. You're just left to guess. Like a train going trough a tunnel and no one ever comes back and we've never seen the other side. We don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing. We don't know if there's some utopia over there and they don't want to come back, or some kind of Hell and can't come back. Or if they just don't exist anymore. We're just left to guess. We can only see this side of the tunnel.

one thing you have to realize is that our time on earth is incredibly short. Just a flash in the eternity that comes afterwards. You may think God was cruel in casting us from the Garden, but it is akin to a two minute time out to a toddler, really. We may experience hardship, pain, suffering, etc, while we are here, but it is so short! If we were here on earth with a firm comprehension of eternity, then we wouldnt even care what happened to us here. Like going to the dentist for a filling. Unpleasant as it is, we do it knowing it is a few minutes out of our life so it is no big deal. In fact it even helps us down the road and avoids greater pain later. So we are here, and eternl life will not be granted until we die. That is fine. Just a flash in my existence, I can wait.
I love God!

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Please see Matthew 18.3:

And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Same deal, different details. Children come into the world innocent and blameless, loving all. They only learn perversity and sin. Adam and Eve's original state is what it is to have "faith like a child".

And this is what we should all have. Love and wonder for the world and each other, and not judgement or hatred for each other.

Very nicely said. Thank you for supplying this verse, for this is one of many verses that prove 'original sin' is a bunch of dogmatic propaganda.

A thread of mine: There Is NO Original Sin

Originally posted by Sahabi
So if God refused eternal life to Adam, the very first man created by God... why would God give eternal life to us "lowly sinners?"

Because we're speciaaalll!

Unlike old Adam, the apple thieve

Isn't it strange that certain religions ban the eating of cows. pigs, etc........ but apples are O.K

Originally posted by Sahabi
So if God refused eternal life to Adam, the very first man created by God... why would God give eternal life to us "lowly sinners?"

Lord Enki is the 1 called the snake in the garden Lord Enlil is the one known as god and creator of edin. Lord Enlil is the God of 3 religions of Abraham


Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him.[2][3][4] They are one of the three major divisions in comparative religion, along with Indian religions (Dharmic) and East Asian religions (Taoic).

The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism regards itself as the religion of the descendants of Jacob,[n 1] a grandson of Abraham. It has a strictly unitary view of God, and the central holy book for almost all branches is the Hebrew Bible, as elucidated in the oral law. Christianity began as a sect of Judaism[n 2] in the 1st century CE and evolved into a separate religion—the Christian Church—with distinctive beliefs and practices. Jesus is the central figure of Christianity, considered by almost all denominations to be divine, typically as one person of a Triune God

Know who you are speaking of.