Handguns: One shot stop vs double tap... which is better???

reply to post by DaddyBare


My two cents - Most shooters won't become proficient enough to pull off a double tap. It will turn into pray-and-spray, which increases the chance of collateral damage. I think you'll always be better off getting off as many clean, well placed shots as needed to eliminate the threat. With the ammo readily available today, if you have a decent caliber and you're a decent marksman you'll be fine. Remain calm and make'em count!! I carry a G27 with 40S&W Hyroshock. It packs enough punch to get it done.

Two in the chest and one in the head will do with even a .22 handgun.

Originally posted by DaddyBare

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
You want a professional opinion of what really happens in a shooting scenario - ask a cop.

One shot stop? Nope.

Double tap? Nope.

Answer: Empty the magazine and squeeze the trigger a few more times after the slide locks open for good measure.

Cops don't even have the kind of restraint you're theorizing about, I doubt anyone else would.

Not true both the military and LEO's are taught very specific shooting techniques... and use these very same methods on the shot or don't shot ranges... we train so it reflex, becomes instinct... that's what saves your life... we also count our shots... in combat I trained my men to remove all the tracers from their weapons except for the last two in a mag... that way they could see when they were out and reload...

nope what I have posted here is two very different and opposing schools of thought...as a training methodology

Trained, perhaps. But whether that training comes into play during a situation is questionable. I am probably generalizing, but how many times have you seen TV news video of a shootout? The cops shoot and shoot until they're empty. Of course the cops can cover their ass when they kill someone by saying the perp had a gun/wallet/phone - a civilian has to prove their actions to be justifiable.

Originally posted by eywadevotee
Two in the chest and one in the head will do with even a .22 handgun.

As long as you have good shot placement, then the perp still has a little time time to kick your ass before he bleeds out. Adrenaline can make someone do amazing things.

reply to post by seabag


I agree, at the very least, put the bad guy in a position to think about whether or not he wants another one or not.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


Yeah I remember the shoot-out at the Marriott in Albuquerque...
22 rounds fired on two suspects... only two hits... no one died... except for the hotel lobby...

but it that very reason training was upped in recent years... scenes like that are inexcusable... put others at risk needlessly... Silly for APD to refuse the offer the NRA gave them, unlimited access to their regional headquarters up in Raton... but that's APD for ya... not everyone is that way though

Originally posted by Skewed
reply to post by seabag

 

I agree, at the very least, put the bad guy in a position to think about whether or not he wants another one or not.

He'd better decide quickly because my first one is going to hurt. And round two won't be far behind. Lol

reply to post by DaddyBare


Controlled Pair => is the term I like best for shooting your target twice. A double-tap is just pulling the trigger twice and not worrying about aiming the 2nd shot or dealing with muzzle flip. So "Controlled Pair" is the term I prefer to use.

Nothing is set in stone in combat. The situation does dictate your response. That being said, its always good to have a plan before getting into trouble. No matter how rudimentary that plan may be.

1 vs 1:
Plan A => fire a controlled pair
Plan B => fire a single shot to the target's cranial ocular cavity
Plan C => refer to Plan B

1 vs Many:
Plan A => fire a single shot at each target; priority depends on which target has a higher threat rating compared to other targets; priority #1 may be the ring leader of group; when you're outnumbered, you don't have time to fire a controlled pair at each target
Plan B => fire a single shot to any target's cranial ocular cavity who did not stop their attack
Plan C => refer to Plan B

Those are my two plans. Simple but effective and allows flexibility because there are no specifics. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)

To those who just say, "Shoot until he drops." Be careful. You WILL have to justify in a court of law -- both criminal and civil -- for each and every bullet that leaves your barrel.

It always makes me cringe seeing a law-abiding citizen in court defending himself why his target was riddled with 20 bullet holes. You may regret your decision for "shooting until he drops". Because that action makes you look like a blood, thirsty animal who was out of control.

I pray I never have to get into a gunfight. But if I do, my statements in court would be along the lines of...

"After the attacker ignored my warnings and display of firearm, I fired a controlled pair. But the attacker continued his assault despite his injuries and warnings. So I had no choice to fire my third and final shot to his cranial ocular cavity before the attacker killed or grievously injured myself and my loved ones."

If you looking to kill one shot straight through the heart.

If you are a good shooter use one shot straight in the head.

One shot is always better, quicker, saves ammo, just make sure
your a good shot.

If you are not a seasoned shooter, shoot to kill in the least amount of shots
as possible. More is not always better. You do not need to make them look like
swiss cheese that is your ego.

reply to post by guppy
Guppy, you get a star.

It is simple, and it is the best way to handle those situations. Always be flexible, as the best laid plans often need to change.

Originally posted by guppy
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

Because that action makes you look like a blood, thirsty animal who was out of control.

When someones fight or flight kicks in, wouldn't you think the average person would be the same as a blood thirsty animal when they are fighting for their life. I think the court system needs to take this into account. Sure, a soldier is trained to deal with the adrenaline rush, but the average joe has not had the training and at times is operating on pure instinct and there really is not any thinking going on, just reacting to the situation.

This is a problem with our court systems. They do not recognize natural human tendencies that for the most part people cannot control when faced with certain situations.

Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

Yeah I remember the shoot-out at the Marriott in Albuquerque...
22 rounds fired on two suspects... only two hits... no one died... except for the hotel lobby...

but it that very reason training was upped in recent years... scenes like that are inexcusable... put others at risk needlessly... Silly for APD to refuse the offer the NRA gave them, unlimited access to their regional headquarters up in Raton... but that's APD for ya... not everyone is that way though

Reminds me of a stakeout of a takeout beer store in Reading, PA years ago. The police had info that a serial armed robber would be hitting that particular store, so they were waiting on him.

He had a handgun and was stupid enough to pull it. As he was running across the parking lot, the police fired 36 shots at him. They him once in the wrist. The shooting distances ranged from 20 feet to 30 yards.

Since everything falls apart when shooting under stress I always figured that a proper grip and sight picture were the most important fundies to get down.

Relative success in IDPA has proven that true for me.

If the grip is good chances are that your trigger control will be adequate and if your sight picture is good you'll hit that center mass just fine.

Stance, breathing, trigger control, sight alignment, are all wonderful things but when the world is crashing down around you and your hysterical, being flooded with adrenaline and fear, sweating and shaking, and experiencing sensory isolation of tunnel vision and deafening all you should be worried about is squeezing that trigger at the largest visible mass of the source of all your fear and pain.

Thinking about double-taps or single-shot placement is way too unnecessary.

Get a good grip and put that front sight in the center of your enemy.

Or just empty your magazine in the general direction all nuts and hysterically like it's your first quarter in an arcade game as cops do. Nothing makes me quite as nervous as a cop on my squad. Such consistently reckless handling every time.

Per Jeff Cooper, it depends on the situation!

As they taught at Gunsite, "if there is one the best is either a double tap, or two to the torso and one to the head. If there are more than one then it's one per customer." and be aware of previously downed becoming a threat again.

I carry a .45 if I have to use it I will follow the above instructions.

And my take is proper training will result in the correct number of rounds fired.

What is the situation where you would be using it?
Handguns are not accurate as a rule. If you want to stop something with 1 shot use a rifle and aim for the braincase.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by eywadevotee
Two in the chest and one in the head will do with even a .22 handgun.

As long as you have good shot placement, then the perp still has a little time time to kick your ass before he bleeds out. Adrenaline can make someone do amazing things.

Cher... I knew a guy whom they had to shoot SIX TIMES before they dropped him.

reply to post by hudsonhawk69


Then they were not shot in the brain or heart. I do not care how jacked up someone is on PCP, a bullet to the brain or heart will put them down.

You "one shot" believers need to check some of the pistol forums. You will find some astounding info on the results of cops using their guns. I don't remember all of the details, but the average distance in which a cop used his/her weapon was nine feet! The percent of misses on that first shot was 47%! Hard to believe at (about) nine feet!

The key is that those shots were panic shots. Made at some point between when the barrel was clearing the holster and when the barrel was on target. I don't care what gigantic calibre gun you are waving in the other guy's face, if you can't pull down or up on that body mass, you may be dead in the next second. And BTW, in that next instant, your recoil from that large bore had better not be so bad that the barrel is tipped to the Moon!

A regular .38 Special or a 9mm will give you the break you need to bring the gun to back to bear on target as was intented for the first round...a bullet that didn't bother him too much toward what he was trying himself to do at the time.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by eywadevotee
Two in the chest and one in the head will do with even a .22 handgun.

As long as you have good shot placement, then the perp still has a little time time to kick your ass before he bleeds out. Adrenaline can make someone do amazing things.

Cher... I knew a guy whom they had to shoot SIX TIMES before they dropped him.

double tap the center of the upper torso, or the noggin and he wouldnt stay up. Addrenaline, PCP or act of congress wont keep em going after that.

also IMHo, Double tap or single shot only refers to a handgun situation.

with the distance and timing of a rifle, one shot- one kill.

I don't have to double tap a 200 lb Deer.

Originally posted by Aliensun
You "one shot" believers need to check some of the pistol forums. You will find some astounding info on the results of cops using their guns. I don't remember all of the details, but the average distance in which a cop used his/her weapon was nine feet! The percent of misses on that first shot was 47%! Hard to believe at (about) nine feet!

The key is that those shots were panic shots. Made at some point between when the barrel was clearing the holster and when the barrel was on target. I don't care what gigantic calibre gun you are waving in the other guy's face, if you can't pull down or up on that body mass, you may be dead in the next second. And BTW, in that next instant, your recoil from that large bore had better not be so bad that the barrel is tipped to the Moon!

A regular .38 Special or a 9mm will give you the break you need to bring the gun to back to bear on target as was intented for the first round...a bullet that didn't bother him too much toward what he was trying himself to do at the time.

an attacker at 9ft would get my blade.
faster and more accurate than any handgun.