Handguns: One shot stop vs double tap... which is better???

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posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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One shot stop vs double tap... which is better???
A chance to debate for our more learned members and a chance to learn a thing or two for the new comers...
I'm going to sit back and let you guys duke it out... one note below I've included Chuck Hawks current stopping power chart... to help facilitate your arguments... so before games begin...let me throw out a bit of info on both schools of thought

In the double-tap technique, after the first round is fired, the shooter quickly reacquires the sights for a fast second shot. This skill can be practiced by firing two shots at a time, taking time between the shots to reacquire the sights. With practice, the time between shots grows shorter and shorter until it seems to the observer as if the shooter is just pulling the trigger twice very quickly.

The origin of the double tap technique is credited to William Ewart Fairbairn and Eric Anthony Sykes, British police chiefs in Shanghai during the 1930s to overcome the limitations of full metal jacketed (FMJ) ammunition. FMJ ammunition is commonly used by militaries for feeding reliability, adherence to the Hague Convention regarding non-expanding ammunition and improved penetration.in other words they had crappy ammo and this double tap technique improved their odds...

One-shot stop

This hypothesis, promoted by Evan P. Marshall, is based on statistical analysis of actual shooting incidents from various reporting sources (typically police agencies). It is intended to be used as a unit of measurement and not as a tactical philosophy, as mistakenly believed by some. It considers the history of shooting incidents for a given factory ammunition load, and compiles the percentage of "one-shot-stops" achieved with each specific ammunition load. That percentage is then intended to be used with other information to help predict the effectiveness of that load getting a "one-shot-stop." For example, if an ammunition load is used in 10 torso shootings, incapacitating all but two with one shot, the "one-shot-stop" percentage for the total sample would be 80%.

Not to be mistaken by the one big hole group one shot stop relies on known and proven stats... the .357 is always the reigning king BTW...One shot one kill




Handgun Cartridge Power Chart

By Chuck Hawks



Caliber Load Bullet MV (fps) ME (ft. lbs.) Penetration (10% gel.) AIT (goats at Strasbourg) One Shot Stop % Test Brl.
.22LR CCI, Rem, Win Hi.Vel. 40gr.LRN 955 81 12.8" n/a 21% unk.
.22LR CCI,Rem,Win Hi.Vel. 37grLHP 975 78 10.3" n/a 29% unk.
.22LR Rem. Yellow Jacket 33gr.TCHP 1259 116 n/a n/a 33% 6" Colt
.22LR CCI Stinger 32gr.LHP 1262 113 9.8" n/a 34% 6" Colt
.22WMR CCI +V 30gr.HP 1450 140 9.2" n/a 40% unk.
.22WMR CCI +V 30gr.HP 1300 120 n/a n/a n/a 2" NAA
.22WMR Winchester 40gr.JHP 1400 174 13" n/a 42% 6.5" Ruger
.22WMR Winchester 40gr.JHP 1098 108 n/a n/a n/a 2" NAA
.22WMR Federal 50gr.JHP 817 74 n/a n/a n/a 2" NAA
.25ACP Winchester 45gr.Ex.Pt. 815 66 13.8" n/a 25% 2" test
.25ACP All 50gr.FMJ 760 64 18" n/a 23% unk.
.25ACP MagSafe Defender 22gr.Frag. 1610 n/a 6" n/a 41%est. 2.5" test
.32ACP Winchester 60gr.STHP 970 125 6.5" n/a 63% 3.2" Wthr.
.32ACP Magsafe Defender 50gr.Frag. 1250 191 7.8" n/a 57%est. 3.5" test
.380ACP Federal 90gr.JHP 1005 200 14.4" 11.06 sec. 69% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Rem. Golden Saber 102gr.JHP 925 194 9.4" n/a 64% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Remington 88gr.JHP 1000 195 12.8" 13.46 sec. 54% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr.JHP 1007 200 10.5" 10.94 sec. 69% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Cor-Bon +P 90gr.JHP 1041 217 9" 11.12 sec. 70% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Fed, Rem, Win. 95gr.FMJ 955 190 17" 22.8 sec. 51% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP CCI Gold Dot 90gr.JHP 1030 212 8" n/a 67% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Glaser Blue 70gr.Frag. 1313 268 5" 7.94 sec. 75% 3.6" SIG
.38Spec. Winchester +P 158gr.LHP 790 280 15.2" n/a 67% 2" S&W
.38Spec. Federal, Rem, Win. 158gr.RNL 587 200 n/a 46.58 sec. 49% 2" S&W
.38Spec. Remington +P 158gr.LHP 776 211 n/a 15.52 sec. 65% 2" S&W
.38Spec. Glaser Blue 80gr.Frag. 1350 400 6" n/a 77%est. 2" S&W
.38Spec. Cor-Bon +P 115gr.JHP 1243 395 14.2" 8.98 sec. 83% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Glaser Blue +P 80gr.Frag. 1667 494 7" 4.72 sec. 84%est. 4" S&W
.38Spec Winchester +P 158gr.LHP 996 342 15.2" 10.76 sec. 78% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Federal +P 125gr.JHP 945 248 12.2" n/a 73% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Federal, Rem, Win. 158gr.RNL 708 176 28.5" 33.68 sec. 52% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Remington +P 125gr.SJHP 1008 280 11.1" 11.74 sec. 69% 4" Colt
9x19 Glaser Blue 80gr.Frag. 1555 430 6" 7.42 sec. 94%est. 4" S&W
9x19 Cor-Bon +P 115gr.JHP 1321 454 14.2" 8.92 sec. 91% 4" Glock
9x19 MagSafe Stealth +P 64gr.Frag. 1950 461 10" 4.74 sec. 90%est. 4.25" SIG
9x19 Winchester 115gr.STHP 1225 383 8" n/a 83% unk.
9x19 Rem.Golden Saber+P 124gr.JHP 1180 384 12" n/a 83% unk.
9x19 Remington +P 115gr.JHP 1288 399 12.7" 8.98 sec. 89% 4" S&W
9x19 Federal 115gr.JHP 1175 341 14.5" 9.36 sec. 81% 4" S&W
.38Super Remington +P 115gr.JHP 1300 431 n/a n/a 88% 5" test
.357Mag. Glaser Blue 80gr.Frag. 1687 505 6" 4.82 sec. 89%est. 4" S&W
.357Mag. Federal 110gr.JHP 1295 410 10" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.357Mag. Federal 125gr.JHP 1442 580 13.3" 7.44 sec. 96% 4" S&W
.357Mag. Remington 125gr.SJHP 1468 583 13" 7.34 sec. 96% 4" Colt
.357Mag. Rem.Golden Saber MV 125gr.JHP 1220 413 13" n/a 84% 4" S&W
.357Mag. Remington Med.Vel. 125gr.SJHP 1205 413 15.5" 7.94 sec. 83% 4" Colt
.40S&W Glaser Blue 105gr.Frag 1449 490 6" 5.34 sec. 91%est. 4" S&W
.40S&W Cor-Bon 135gr.JHP 1300 507 9.8" n/a 96% 4" S&W
.40S&W MagSafe Defender +P 84gr.Frag> 1800 n/a 13" n/a 91% 4" S&W
.40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 950 361 15" 8.32 sec. 89% 4" S&W
.40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 155gr.JHP 1140 448 13.3" n/a 94% 4" S&W
.40S&W Rem.Golden Saber 165gr.JHP 1150 485 12" n/a 94% 4" S&W
.40S&W Remington 155gr.JHP 1140 447 n/a 8.40 sec. 86%est. 4" S&W
10mm Winchester 175gr.STHP 1250 607 12.8" n/a 92% 4.25" S&W
10mm Glaser Blue 105gr.Frag. 1624 615 n/a 7.60 sec. n/a 4.25" S&W
10mm Winchester 180gr.JHP 1055 445 15.5" n/a 82% 4.25" S&W
10mm Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 980 383 15" n/a 87% 4.25" S&W
.41Mag. Winchester 210gr.JHP 1300 789 17.5" n/a 82% 4" S&W
.41Mag. Winchester 175gr.STHP 1250 608 14" n/a 89% 4" S&W
.44Spec. Remington 240gr.LSWC 851 384 n/a n/a 64% 4" S&W
.44Spec. Cor-Bon +P 180gr.JHP 1000 400 14.2" n/a 86% 4" S&W
.44Spec. MagSafe Defender 92gr.Frag. 1620 n/a 9.5" n/a 92%est. 4" S&W
.44Spec. Winchester 200gr.STHP 819 298 10.4" n/a 75% 4" S&W
.44Mag. MagSafe Urban 115gr.Frag. 1620 n/a 11" n/a 93%est. 4" S&W
.44Mag. Cor-Bon 180gr. Urban 1200 576 15.3" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.44Mag. Eldorado Starfire 240gr.JHP 1180 743 14.8" n/a 91% 4" S&W
.44Mag. Winchester 210gr.STHP 1301 788 15.1" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.45ACP Glaser Blue 140gr.Frag. 1355 571 n/a 4.72 sec. n/a 5" Colt
.45ACP Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr.JHP 819 366 13.3" 8.40 sec. 94% 5" Colt
.45ACP MagSafe Defender 96gr.Frag. 1660 n/a 10" n/a 93%est. 5" Colt
.45ACP Federal 185gr.JHP 1001 411 13.6" 9.24 sec. 87% 5" Colt
.45ACP Cor-bon +P 185gr.JHP 1150 544 11.3" n/a 92% 5" Colt
.45ACP Fed, Rem, Win. 230 FMJ 839 360 27" 13.84 sec. 63% 5" Colt
.45ACP CCI-Speer 200gr.JHP 975 422 9.4" n/a 88% 5" Colt
.45ACP Remington +P 185gr.JHP 1129 519 17.1" 7.98 sec. 86% 5" Colt
.45Colt Winchester 225gr.STHP 920 423 13.5" n/a 74% 4" S&W
.45Colt Federal 225LHP 900 405 19.5" n/a 78% 4" S&W
.45Colt Cor-Bon +P 200gr.JHP 1100 537 9" n/a 92% 4" S&W




posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Shoot until the threat is neutralized .. whether that be one shot or twenty. Most shooters can’t operate under stress well enough to guarantee this outcome with one or two conscious shots.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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Any decent .45 with an extended clip and one shot stops are certainly worth the effort if you are close enough.

But, as stated above. Don't stop till it drops.

I am a Sig Sauer kinda guy.

edit on 27-9-2011 by EvanJP because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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I personally carry a .357 mag snub nose with me everyday. I can hit about fifty fit almost every shot. As far as double tapping, good luck on the kick that that puppy makes, but I do love the hair trigger of my revolver.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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A very wise OLD retired soldier once said:

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.
Ammo is cheap. Life is not.


Notice I emphasised "OLD" ....as in he has remained alive ...for a long time.


I always took that statement to heart.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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.50 cal, 12 Ga rocket launcher, Nuker, one shot

Anything smaller, keep shooting till its dead, or they might get you.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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I not an expert but I recon your choice between 'double tap' or 'one shot stop' will depend on weather you can shoot straight or not!



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by fishman1985
I personally carry a .357 mag snub nose with me everyday. I can hit about fifty fit almost every shot. As far as double tapping, good luck on the kick that that puppy makes, but I do love the hair trigger of my revolver.


Like I said I'm going to try to sit on my hands in this debate... but I did want to add...
I too had a .357 snubby... model 19 with a 1 17/8 inch barrel... damn if that wasn't the worse recoiling gun I ever shot... just to light of absorb the inherent energy of a 158 grain win silver tip.... the small rounded grip didn't help matter either...
\of course the big ten foot fireball at night was pretty cool too



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Let's just say I'm a huge fan of Zombieland.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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I am a firm believer in one shot one kill, but I do not think one is any better than the other.

I think I will let the situation dictate which method to use.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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If I were in a situation where ammunition was limited, and there were multiple threats, you would have a hard time convincing me that it is a good idea to send another bullet towards a target that has been hit. That second shot might very well be a miss if the target is dropping, and could be better spent on a target that has not yet been perforated.
The double tap has it's uses, especially if you are a hit man. It was developed, as stated above, 'to overcome the limitations' of FMJ ammo. Most civilians will not be using FMJ ammo in a self defense situation, I hope.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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Okay let me put this another way....

you have two or more opponents...
do you preform a double tap on the first before moving on
or take a single shot and engage the second target???

double tap vs one shot stop???



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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You want a professional opinion of what really happens in a shooting scenario - ask a cop.

One shot stop? Nope.

Double tap? Nope.

Answer: Empty the magazine and squeeze the trigger a few more times after the slide locks open for good measure.

Cops don't even have the kind of restraint you're theorizing about, I doubt anyone else would.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
Okay let me put this another way....

you have two or more opponents...
do you preform a double tap on the first before moving on
or take a single shot and engage the second target???

double tap vs one shot stop???


If out numbered, I am going for the head most definitely, depending on the range and if I am accurate at the distance. So, one to the head should suffice. I would have to go for one shot one kill, simply to even the playing field as fast as I could.

edit on 27-9-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Skewed
 


I favour the sneaky axe blade through the back of the head method. Guns are loud, and one cannot garuntee a total avoidance of collateral. No soldier or cop would argue that point. Theres always a percentage risk of someone who doesnt deserve a bullet getting dropped. So I will go with a three kg hand axe to the skull. Nice and quiet, nice and safe for everyone else.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM
You want a professional opinion of what really happens in a shooting scenario - ask a cop.

One shot stop? Nope.

Double tap? Nope.

Answer: Empty the magazine and squeeze the trigger a few more times after the slide locks open for good measure.

Cops don't even have the kind of restraint you're theorizing about, I doubt anyone else would.


Not true both the military and LEO's are taught very specific shooting techniques... and use these very same methods on the shot or don't shot ranges... we train so it reflex, becomes instinct... that's what saves your life... we also count our shots... in combat I trained my men to remove all the tracers from their weapons except for the last two in a mag... that way they could see when they were out and reload...

nope what I have posted here is two very different and opposing schools of thought...as a training methodology



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


They would shoot you before you even had a chance to bring the axe back to even swing it.

This is bringing a knife to a gunfight, you will lose.
edit on 27-9-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Skewed
 


Well obviously you dont walk up in someones face and try that! Its a weapon of stealth, that means you have to have more tactical accumen than your target. It might be riskier , but if it came down to it,I would rather try that method than risk accidentaly plugging an innocent bystander.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


That is not what we are discussing here.



posted on Sep, 27 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Always aim for the biggest mass of the body, so tap one, chest. If that does not completely neutralize the attacker, go for a second shot the the chest, this time try to be mo accurate, let's say the heart. Now the final shot is completely up to you. Do you want to attacker to suffer a little ? If the answer is yes then I suggest maybe taking one of his knees out, you know, make him scream a little, get that blood flowing and heart pumping so he can bleed to death. If your answer is no and you don't enjoy seeing your attacker suffering, then may I suggest a final tap to the head so that it may be all over as fast as possible.





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