A call to Reason

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Despite opening this thread with the above excerpt from the bible, this is in no way intended to be a religious discussion. This thread is merely meant to be a discussion on the nature of us. Who the hell are we? What are we doing here? Why?

The motivation behind this thread is simply that I cannot answer these questions myself. I have been a "Seeker" all my life, and in these 37 years of life, I have not found an answer that would suffice. I do not know who I am, I do not know why I am here, and I quite frankly don't know what I am doing.

Many answers have come my way in life. I found answers that worked for a time, but eventually all answers became more what I wanted to believe was truth, than actual truth. So it would seem that truth itself is unobtainable. If truth is unobtainable, then from where does this drive, this longing to know come from?

Who am I? I was born on Nov. 5th, 1974 in Baltimore Md, USA, Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe. I was named after my father, Arthur Peterson Jr.

This is not truth. This is merely what others have chosen for me. I did not have a say so in naming myself. I did not have a say so in naming the place. I did not have a say so in naming the time. All these things are chosen by others before me, that they may reinforce their own constructs. Given a choice, what would I have named the place of my birth or the name of the moment, or even myself. Where is the freedom to pursue the truth of one's existence when all things are told to you from birth?

Where is this place I call home? Earth? Can you prove that this place is called earth? It hasn't always been called earth, so why now must that be the standard? Who gets to decide what one calls his location? Does it really matter? I am here! Is that not enough?

What am I doing here? am I actually doing anything at all? Based on the world constructs, I could say I have done many things. I lived. I served. I sought. Really? Where are these things that I did? There is paper to prove that I came alive (birth certificate). There is paper to prove I served (enlistment contracts). There is paper to prove I sought (Masonic Lodge rolls, dues card, various initiations into various mystery traditions ie. covens, Houses of Palomayombe, etc.) Despite these proofs, "I" did not do any of these things. New identities did these things. In the military, I did these things first as "recruit", like all others, then answered to what ever rank I was at the given moment. In my initiations I did those things as Little Bear, Tata Ngombe en Toto, and various other names. "I" have done nothing, because all things "I" have done have been attributed to names that "I" am not.

So, if I do not know who I am, where I am, or why I am here, what then drives me to find these answers? Where does this innate curiosity to know oneself come from? Within? Where is within?

No one can answer these questions for me. Their answers are nothing more than stumbling blocks, massive boulders that they themselves could not lift and therefore, they stopped searching. Boulders which I neither lifted, nor destroyed, but merely passed through.

Still searching, I found nothing but the desire to press on. But why?

Why this insatiable desire to keep searching? Am I a slave to this desire to know? YES!

Liberation!

No Man knows me.
I do not know myself.
I cannot know myself.

No Man knows where I am.
I do not know where I am.
I cannot know where I am.

No Man knows what I am doing.
I do not know what I am doing.
I cannot know what I am doing.

The desire to know has been slain.

Now, I am.

Outstanding writing buddy. Almost like written by me, but my problem is that english is not my native language, so thank you to let me read this in ATS.
And guess what, almost the same age here
As for me, i realize that i need to find my own true. Not external god, or external master, teacher or guru. Old patterns and ancient traditions or old books didn´t work anymore at least for me. Just look all the mess that we have done. I just need to find my own true and from there starts. Perhaps this man can help a little bit to help us found some answers for ourselves.

Looking at it from a purely theoretical scientific viewpoint, you exist everywhere and you are everyone and you have accomplished everything and that process is ongoing.

We (may likely) live in a superuniverse with infinite possibilities and infinite alternate universes with infinite you's and infinite me's. If we do in fact live in a superuniverse, then everything is possible and the probability of any conceivable (and inconceivable) scenario is one hundred percent. There are an infinite number possibilities or outcomes. Nothing is impossible and everything is certain. Wrap yourself around that one!

In an alternate universe, the chances of you typing this reply to my OP is 100%.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by greenCo


Great video my friend. I do not want answers anymore. I am at peace just being who or what I am, doing what ever I end up doing.



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Well, I'm glad you "asked"! ( pun intended)
O.K. let's do something perhaps a bit differently .
Let's use anagrams to analyze the phrase
" Ask and you shall receive"

" Ask And You Shall Receive"
Anagrammed
_______________________

A Heavenly Lord cues; I ask!

Use voice/hand. Ask!...........Really!

Sunday evokes call. I hear!

You have asked. Call risen!

Use a holy "Visa Card" : Kneel!

Use yodel? Risk avalanche!

Have dollar issuance key.

Heavy salaries unlocked.

Ah, cloud slay vain seeker.


Each line was an anagram of "Ask and you shall receive"
Are you starting to see a pattern here?
Do you see the (comical) wisdom in "Use yodel? Risk avalanche!"?
That's right , never ask too loudly in the mountains. It might cause an avalanche.
But it gets serious too: "Slay vain seeker" ( ah, yes the ol' lightning bolt from God)

Interesting way to "look" at things, eh?

Originally posted by RavenSpeaks
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Well, I'm glad you "asked"! ( pun intended)
O.K. let's do something perhaps a bit differently .
Let's use anagrams to analyze the phrase
" Ask and you shall receive"

" Ask And You Shall Receive"
Anagrammed
_______________________

A Heavenly Lord cues; I ask!

Use voice/hand. Ask!...........Really!

Sunday evokes call. I hear!

You have asked. Call risen!

Use a holy "Visa Card" : Kneel!

Use yodel? Risk avalanche!

Have dollar issuance key.

Heavy salaries unlocked.

Ah, cloud slay vain seeker.


Each line was an anagram of "Ask and you shall receive"
Are you starting to see a pattern here?
Do you see the (comical) wisdom in "Use yodel? Risk avalanche!"?
That's right , never ask too loudly in the mountains. It might cause an avalanche.
But it gets serious too: "Slay vain seeker" ( ah, yes the ol' lightning bolt from God)

Interesting way to "look" at things, eh?

I can dig it my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by METACOMET
Wrap yourself around that one!

Interesting speculation my friend.

It is a beautiful day outside today. I will go enjoy some sunshine.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

This is not truth. This is merely what others have chosen for me. I did not have a say so in naming myself. I did not have a say so in naming the place. I did not have a say so in naming the time. All these things are chosen by others before me, that they may reinforce their own constructs. Given a choice, what would I have named the place of my birth or the name of the moment, or even myself. Where is the freedom to pursue the truth of one's existence when all things are told to you from birth?

Why do you think you had no say-so?

I happen to know for certain (for me at least) that every person chose exactly the life they are living. When my youngest son was a baby, and struggling for his life, and I was second-guessing my decisions to have him, and to save him, and I was grappling with many personal issues, and I was a new member of ATS, and I was reading the atrocities around the world, and so I sat next to my son's bed, and I prayed......blasphemously!

I asked God how it could be possible for all of the "innocents" like my son to suffer in this world. I demanded an answer for the plight in Africa, and the man who lost his family when a figher jet crashed into his home, and the brief few moments of life my nephew had, and the heartache he left behind. I demanded God to show me there was some reason for all of this.

And immediately, in my mind, the answer came. The answer was, "they asked for it." Of course with my baby on a breathing machine next to me, this answer was frustrating and angering, and I didn't believe it. Because I didn't believe it, I also knew it wasn't my imagination, it was a REAL answer from God. So I asked again.

What the hell does, "they asked for it mean?" And the answer flooded my mind as if it were my own thoughts, but I had no control over it. I saw a lot of things, but mainly, I fully understood that some people need to experience a fleeting moment of unconditional love, so maybe they are born for those few seconds to be held in a mother's arms, and then they pass on. Some people need to give that love, with no reward whatsoever, they just need to experience giving that unconditional love, and maybe they also need to experience the anguish, or maybe they are just strong enough to handle the anguish and it is a worthwhile sacrifice. Whatever the reasons, each and every person on this planet, no matter their situation, is living the life they chose to live.

It sounds harsh when looking out our micro-scale of experience. We only know what is in the here and now and is observable with our limited abilities. BUT, if we look at the macro-scale, it can make sense. If every soul is on a journey of enlightenment, then it needs to experience all that can possibly be experienced, good or bad. It needs to be filled up with all the emotions possible in a human experience. The more I thought about it, the more sense it made. Human beings seem to CRAVE EMOTION. Look at Jerry Springer, LOL! Some people crave depression, some crave exhiliration. Some crave sex. Some crave attention. Some crave power and material things. Everyone craves to fill up an inner hole with some form of emotion or experience.

IamIam,
I know you are a very spiritual searcher. I may not be the best messenger you will ever encounter, but I can tell you with 100% certainty, you are on the path you chose for yourself. Your soul needed something available in this environment, and it is up to you to search it out. Your soul may also have needed to supply others with some message or comfort or even agony. It is up to you to fill that purpose.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

This is not truth. This is merely what others have chosen for me. I did not have a say so in naming myself. I did not have a say so in naming the place. I did not have a say so in naming the time. All these things are chosen by others before me, that they may reinforce their own constructs. Given a choice, what would I have named the place of my birth or the name of the moment, or even myself. Where is the freedom to pursue the truth of one's existence when all things are told to you from birth?

Why do you think you had no say-so?

I happen to know for certain (for me at least) that every person chose exactly the life they are living. When my youngest son was a baby, and struggling for his life, and I was second-guessing my decisions to have him, and to save him, and I was grappling with many personal issues, and I was a new member of ATS, and I was reading the atrocities around the world, and so I sat next to my son's bed, and I prayed......blasphemously!

I asked God how it could be possible for all of the "innocents" like my son to suffer in this world. I demanded an answer for the plight in Africa, and the man who lost his family when a figher jet crashed into his home, and the brief few moments of life my nephew had, and the heartache he left behind. I demanded God to show me there was some reason for all of this.

And immediately, in my mind, the answer came. The answer was, "they asked for it." Of course with my baby on a breathing machine next to me, this answer was frustrating and angering, and I didn't believe it. Because I didn't believe it, I also knew it wasn't my imagination, it was a REAL answer from God. So I asked again.

What the hell does, "they asked for it mean?" And the answer flooded my mind as if it were my own thoughts, but I had no control over it. I saw a lot of things, but mainly, I fully understood that some people need to experience a fleeting moment of unconditional love, so maybe they are born for those few seconds to be held in a mother's arms, and then they pass on. Some people need to give that love, with no reward whatsoever, they just need to experience giving that unconditional love, and maybe they also need to experience the anguish, or maybe they are just strong enough to handle the anguish and it is a worthwhile sacrifice. Whatever the reasons, each and every person on this planet, no matter their situation, is living the life they chose to live.

It sounds harsh when looking out our micro-scale of experience. We only know what is in the here and now and is observable with our limited abilities. BUT, if we look at the macro-scale, it can make sense. If every soul is on a journey of enlightenment, then it needs to experience all that can possibly be experienced, good or bad. It needs to be filled up with all the emotions possible in a human experience. The more I thought about it, the more sense it made. Human beings seem to CRAVE EMOTION. Look at Jerry Springer, LOL! Some people crave depression, some crave exhiliration. Some crave sex. Some crave attention. Some crave power and material things. Everyone craves to fill up an inner hole with some form of emotion or experience.

IamIam,
I know you are a very spiritual searcher. I may not be the best messenger you will ever encounter, but I can tell you with 100% certainty, you are on the path you chose for yourself. Your soul needed something available in this environment, and it is up to you to search it out. Your soul may also have needed to supply others with some message or comfort or even agony. It is up to you to fill that purpose.

Thank you for sharing your point of view my friend. You say human beings crave emotion, but how are you so certain that this is the case? Is craving emotion a prerequisite for being? Craving does not sound like an understanding of being, but rather a desire to be.

Unconditional Love is not something to be desired, it is something to be.

"They asked for it" is a presumptuous answer. How do you know they asked for it? I did not ask for my life, it just is. If I were dying of cancer, would you think "well he asked for it"?

If you were dying of cancer, did you ask for it?

No, these things happen that the living might witness this suffering, and learn to eliminate it, that the whole body heals and endures. This is love.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM

"They asked for it" is a presumptuous answer. How do you know they asked for it? I did not ask for my life, it just is. If I were dying of cancer, would you think "well he asked for it"?

If you were dying of cancer, did you ask for it?

No, these things happen that the living might witness this suffering, and learn to eliminate it, that the whole body heals and endures. This is love.

Maybe you misunderstood. I do not feel "They asked for it" are my own words. I didn't like them, nor agree with them. These were the words in answer to my prayer. Possibly the words of God?

My son was lying, most likely dying, on a ventilator, at only a few months old, and a couple of pounds, and I was criticizing the whole idea of God when this understanding was given to me. I didn't like it. The answer "they asked for it" meant that my 2lb little baby boy, with his chest retracting, and his translucent skin, and the blindfold over his eyes, and the UV light over his bed, where he couldn't be touched or held by me, was something he asked for? Hell no! Those were certainly not my words.

I always love reading your posts, but there is much more to all of this than just "to be." There is a purpose, and there is an expectation.

I don't care much for religion, but the literal translation of "hell" is just a spiritual death. Not Dante's Inferno, just death on a spiritual level.

We get "to be" with the purpose of grasping something more. We get to come back and experience as much as necessary to transcend our presumptions and our limited observations, but at some point, we either ascend or die........ on a spiritual level.

Before you entered this body, you had a plan for your soul. You had something you wanted to experience, something you wanted to accomplish, and you chose this lifetime to conquer it.

Time is precious, live actively. If you want to "just be" that is fine, but "be" it actively. Don't let a second slip by, experience everything in your realm at this very moment. Don't be passive about your experience. You can "just be" but "be" it intentionally.

I don't sign off with "Peace" or "Your Brother" or "Namaste" or "So mote it be." I am just a regular ol' redneck from Missouri. These words are not my own, and they are not part of any religion, or any new-age kooky stuff. This is just what I came to know during some of the hardest times in my life when I had personal interaction with God.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Maybe you misunderstood. I do not feel "They asked for it" are my own words. I didn't like them, nor agree with them. These were the words in answer to my prayer. Possibly the words of God?

I understand you my friend. Where do these voices from within come from? God, perhaps.

If God, would God not have the wisdom to provide the answer that would make sense to you given your current understanding of life? It would be pointless to give an answer you would not understand. To be given a different answer then, one would need a different set of background understandings by which to understand the new knowledge.

How many stones complete the temple Master Mason?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
My son was lying, most likely dying, on a ventilator, at only a few months old, and a couple of pounds, and I was criticizing the whole idea of God when this understanding was given to me. I didn't like it. The answer "they asked for it" meant that my 2lb little baby boy, with his chest retracting, and his translucent skin, and the blindfold over his eyes, and the UV light over his bed, where he couldn't be touched or held by me, was something he asked for? Hell no! Those were certainly not my words.

First, I am sorry for your struggles through that difficult time. Of course these were not your words, however, having come to accept that answer, have you readdressed it further? Have you seriously considered that it simply is not good enough an answer? How deeply are you willing to go in your search?

I too rested at the point that all get what they prearranged. Then I went on.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I always love reading your posts, but there is much more to all of this than just "to be." There is a purpose, and there is an expectation.

Is there a purpose? If so, what is it? What is the expectation.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
We get "to be" with the purpose of grasping something more. We get to come back and experience as much as necessary to transcend our presumptions and our limited observations, but at some point, we either ascend or die........ on a spiritual level.

How do you know?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Before you entered this body, you had a plan for your soul. You had something you wanted to experience, something you wanted to accomplish, and you were given this lifetime to conquer it.

How do you know I had a plan? How do you know for absolute fact what I wanted?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Time is precious, life actively. If you want to "just be" that is fine, but "be" it actively. Don't let a second slip by, experience everything in your realm at this very moment. Don't be passive about your experience. You can "just be" but "be" it intentionally.

Why? What is the purpose?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't sign off with "Peace" or "Your Brother" or "Namaste" or "So mote it be." I am just a regular ol' redneck from Missouri. These words are not my own, and they are not part of any religion, or any new-age kooky stuff. This is just what I came to know during some of the hardest times in my life when I had personal interaction with God.

How do you "know" though?

I don't concern myself with how you sign of. You are your own Man. Sign off how you will. I am not challenging your knowledge, I am merely trying to understand you and how you "know" what you "know".

What is God? A word with so many meanings to so many people. God is the catch all for "I don't Know".

Or is it.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


I wasn't criticizing your sign off, btw. I was just pointing out that I am not a religious or spiritual man in that way. I only know what I know through my own experience.

How do you know I had a plan? How do you know for absolute fact what I wanted?

I have no idea what you wanted, but I know you had a plan......... because you are here.

What is God?

Great question, and something beyond comprehension in human terms. God is not anything. God cannot, and should not be personified. To apply any emotions, or beginning or end to God would be useless. Anything we would presume to know or describe about God would only be in human terms. It would be like describing a tennis racket in binary code. Our understanding is far too limited, and the biggest failure in all religions is trying to personify a deity.

God pervades all things. I know simply because I know. I could speak 100 languages, and I still would not have enough words to describe it.

however, having come to accept that answer, have you readdressed it further? Have you seriously considered that it simply is not good enough an answer? How deeply are you willing to go in your search?

I redress that answer daily. My best friend and virtual super-hero is struggling through his third round of chemo at the age of 30. When I met him 10 years ago he was playing Division I football at FSU, and he was bigger than life!! He could drink a quart of Vodka and still speak 3 languages fluently and simultaneously without stuttering. He has been to Michael Jordan's house, and hung out with Ice-T, and taken me places I would have never dreamed. He has changed my perceptions of life and taught me how to live bigger and fuller, and now he is struggling to just get around. I don't agree with what is happening, and I have no problem challenging God on purpose, or on technique, or on who serves whom. I don't feel like a servant of God, I feel like a peer. We talk regularly, and he is screwing up by letting my friend go through this, but in the end, I know his purpose will be served, and we will all have grown on a spiritual level.

I only know what I know, and it changes daily, and I am no expert on religion, but I can say with certainty there is a God, and there is a plan, and it is constantly evolving, and we all play the parts we have chosen, and sometimes we succeed, and sometimes we fail, but the idea is to keep striving intentionally to live the fullest life possible.

ETA:
I do have one sign off. I begin every prayer thanking God for the Opportunities and the People in my life. Those two things alone put everything into perspective. My friends, families, acquaintances, and the opportunities I have been granted do and should make me happy regardless of anything else. I end every prayer by asking God to give the the wisdom and strength to accomplish his will for me. I don't know what I don't know, and I have no idea which direction to go next, but I know there is a right way and a wrong way, and every time I chose the wrong way, things don't end, but they get that much more difficult. The right decisions bring me more opportunities and challenges and the wrong ways bring me life lessons and wisdom.

It is all about the experience. At the end of the day, all we have are stories to tell. I have a LOT of stories to tell, and they make me who I am.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I only know what I know through my own experience.

Exactly my point and the point of this thread. How many stones does it take to build a temple?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I have no idea what you wanted, but I know you had a plan......... because you are here.

It is no secret I have a plan. It is part of every post I make here afterall.

But, my plan is insignificant. It is nothing. It is a flash of light and it is gone. Therefore, it is no plan at all.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Great question, and something beyond comprehension in human terms. God is not anything. God cannot, and should not be personified. To apply any emotions, or beginning or end to God would be useless. Anything we would presume to know or describe about God would only be in human terms. It would be like describing a tennis racket in binary code. Our understanding is far too limited, and the biggest failure in all religions is trying to personify a deity.

If God is beyond comprehension in human terms, then it is irrelevant to the human experience.

It is like concerning oneself with a star system on the opposite end of the universe, unseen and unknown.

Is it more dangerous to personify a deity, or deify a person?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
God pervades all things. I know simply because I know. I could speak 100 languages, and I still would not have enough words to describe it.

I could speak 100 languages and still not explain what I do not know.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I redress that answer daily. My best friend and virtual super-hero is struggling through his third round of chemo at the age of 30. When I met him 10 years ago he was playing Division I football at FSU, and he was bigger than life!! He could drink a quart of Vodka and still speak 3 languages fluently and simultaneously without stuttering. He has been to Michael Jordan's house, and hung out with Ice-T, and taken me places I would have never dreamed. He has changed my perceptions of life and taught me how to live bigger and fuller, and now he is struggling to just get around. I don't agree with what is happening, and I have no problem challenging God on purpose, or on technique, or on who serves whom. I don't feel like a servant of God, I feel like a peer. We talk regularly, and he is screwing up by letting my friend go through this, but in the end, I know his purpose will be served, and we will all have grown on a spiritual level.

That which we love greater than all others, is that which slips through our fingers. A constant reminder of the dead level by which we all walk. Such is the nature of things.

You don't feel like a servant of God, but a peer. I can understand this relationship. You cannot describe God, but can you describe yourself? Who or what are you?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I only know what I know, and it changes daily

If what you know changes daily, then isn't your knowing merely a brief acceptance of an illusion?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
but I know there is a right way and a wrong way,

Wonderful! What is the right way?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
It is all about the experience. At the end of the day, all we have are stories to tell. I have a LOT of stories to tell, and they make me who I am.

edit on 27-9-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

If at the end of the day all we have are stories to tell, then the whole endeavor is pointless. I can tell quite a yarn without having to have experienced it. What I am is not my experiences for I have let them go and do not look back.

I am not meaning to be dismissive of your philosophy my friend. I had the same philosophy at one time, and these are the holes I found in it to move on.

Now, I do not know.

And, that is fine.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


There is no point in building a Temple. If you are alluding to each of us being a building block, then I disagree. I am only interesting in building myself, and in impacting each of those around me that I connect with. I don't want to be a building block in a master temple of any sort. So the answer is 1. I am a block, and I am a temple.

But, my plan is insignificant. It is nothing. It is a flash of light and it is gone. Therefore, it is no plan at all.

This I disagree with. It is something. It is everything. It is the only thing that is significant. You are here for a reason, you chose the reason, you chose the experience, you live the life, and you will gain (or lose) from it on a cosmic level.

If God is beyond comprehension in human terms, then it is irrelevant to the human experience.

Is it more dangerous to personify a deity, or deify a person?

Again, it is not irrelevant. It is of the utmost importance to acknowledge the existence of something beyond what we can experience, observe, or even comprehend. The mere acknowledgment that God exists is the most important first step.

As for deifying a person, I believe it is important to do so. Deify, as in admit we are the masters of our own fate, and acknowledge that we have immense unseen power. Not deify as in worship. I don't worship anything or anybody. Anything worthy of my worship wouldn't want or need it.

Wonderful! What is the right way?

You cannot describe God, but can you describe yourself? Who or what are you?

I posted your responses out of order, because you already answered the question. What am I? and What is the right way? Are one and the same thing. I am defined by what I choose to make the right way. It is situationally dependent. On my way from home to my second job over the last 30 minutes since my other post, I stopped to help a man push a truck up the road to his driveway. I wasn't in that much of a hurry and I am a strong guy, and he needed help. All the while, I had my little .380 pistol in the back of my pants, because when I leave work later it will be midnight downtown, and I exit the building into a dark courtyard behind the building. I won't hesitate to help my fellow man, and I won't hesitate to end a fellow man depending on the circumstance. My loyalties lie with myself, my family, my close friends, and my personal relationship with God.

Each situation is unique, but I know what is right and wrong, for me, ..when I encounter it, ....usually, .......I think. However, sometimes I choose wrong, and I pay the consequences, and I evolve. I have done many things that I knew were wrong, but I gave in to temptation, or things I thought were right, but then immediately regretted, and I have even done things I thought were right, and I still think were right, but the consequences say otherwise, LOL!

I am defined by what I chose for right and wrong, but your way will certainly be different. You chose a different existence than I did, and you made that choice before you were ever born. Then, during that existence you evolved, and you are now different than you were when you originally chose. We both are. I hope we are better, but who knows?

reply to post by IAMIAM

I am not meaning to be dismissive of your philosophy my friend. I had the same philosophy at one time, and these are the holes I found in it to move on.

I don't mind the friendly discourse at all. I appreciate your questioning. I find it a little presumptuous of you to say you once held my beliefs and then moved on because of "holes," but I enjoy answering your questions and filling your holes.

Maybe moving on was a mistake? Maybe it was right for you, but not for me? Maybe our plans/purposes are different? You seem to be very passive and accepting, which are great attributes, but I don't have them. I am very direct and hands-on, and I probably serve as a better implement for certain things than you would, but you definitely have more patience and openness than me, so perhaps we have each found our niche?

I don't take your attitude as "dismissive," but I do take them as a little authoritative, and that entertains me. No offense taken whatsoever, it only serves as proof that your temple is not yet complete either.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
There is no point in building a Temple. If you are alluding to each of us being a building block, then I disagree. I am only interesting in building myself, and in impacting each of those around me that I connect with. I don't want to be a building block in a master temple of any sort. So the answer is 1. I am a block, and I am a temple.

I wasn't alluding to anything my friend. I don't know, therefore I asked the question. Your answer is yours. It is not mine to know your answer unless you share it. There is nothing to disagree with. I do not know. You are the master, I am the student. Though I am a student who is content with not knowing, particularly if the answer has already been entertained and dismissed. I do not understand your answer though, so I can neither entertain it nor dismiss it. How is one a block and a temple? Why be a block at all if you do not wish to be part of a temple?

Originally posted by getreadyalready

But, my plan is insignificant. It is nothing. It is a flash of light and it is gone. Therefore, it is no plan at all.

This I disagree with. It is something. It is everything. It is the only thing that is significant. You are here for a reason, you chose the reason, you chose the experience, you live the life, and you will gain (or lose) from it on a cosmic level.

It is my plan. Only I can weigh it's value to me. Why do you disagree with me on something that is mine? Can you really thrust the burden of having a reason on someone who does not want a reason? By what authority do you tell me what to do with what is mine?

You can only place these burdens on yourself.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

If God is beyond comprehension in human terms, then it is irrelevant to the human experience.

Is it more dangerous to personify a deity, or deify a person?

Again, it is not irrelevant. It is of the utmost importance to acknowledge the existence of something beyond what we can experience, observe, or even comprehend. The mere acknowledgment that God exists is the most important first step.

Why? First step to what? How can you state something you cannot describe or define is important and a required first step? Who put that requirement on you?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
As for deifying a person, I believe it is important to do so. Deify, as in admit we are the masters of our own fate, and acknowledge that we have immense unseen power. Not deify as in worship. I don't worship anything or anybody. Anything worthy of my worship wouldn't want or need it.

What power? How do you know if it is unseen? How can I find this unseen power?

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Wonderful! What is the right way?

You cannot describe God, but can you describe yourself? Who or what are you?

I posted your responses out of order, because you already answered the question. What am I? and What is the right way? Are one and the same thing. I am defined by what I choose to make the right way. It is situationally dependent. On my way from home to my second job over the last 30 minutes since my other post, I stopped to help a man push a truck up the road to his driveway. I wasn't in that much of a hurry and I am a strong guy, and he needed help. All the while, I had my little .380 pistol in the back of my pants, because when I leave work later it will be midnight downtown, and I exit the building into a dark courtyard behind the building. I won't hesitate to help my fellow man, and I won't hesitate to end a fellow man depending on the circumstance. My loyalties lie with myself, my family, my close friends, and my personal relationship with God.

It sounds an awful lot like you do not know either. In other words, you do not know until the situation presents itself, then you decide. Even then, you do not know until the cause and effect plays out.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I am defined by what I chose for right and wrong, but your way will certainly be different. You chose a different existence than I did, and you made that choice before you were ever born. Then, during that existence you evolved, and you are now different than you were when you originally chose. We both are. I hope we are better, but who knows?

I don't know.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I don't mind the friendly discourse at all. I appreciate your questioning. I find it a little presumptuous of you to say you once held my beliefs and then moved on because of "holes," but I enjoy answering your questions and filling your holes.

Maybe moving on was a mistake? Maybe it was right for you, but not for me? Maybe our plans/purposes are different? You seem to be very passive and accepting, which are great attributes, but I don't have them. I am very direct and hands-on, and I probably serve as a better implement for certain things than you would, but you definitely have more patience and openness than me, so perhaps we have each found our niche?

I don't take your attitude as "dismissive," but I do take them as a little authoritative, and that entertains me. No offense taken whatsoever, it only serves as proof that your temple is not yet complete either.

I do not mean to sound authoritative at all. I am sharing the holes I found. They will either become filled with good mortar, or you too will fall through them.

With Love,

Your Brother

My Brother IAMIAM
I have been struggling for the last couple of days so;.

I have a problem with reason. It lets human beings find reason to define all others so we can continue to do barbaric acts on all walks of life, Human nature no longer serves me,so the reason no longer serves me, and yet I feel sad I have to say these words about my brothers and sisters cause now I am in judgment, so I am releasing what no longer serves me, and Trust all things are Divine

For me, I feel like layers are being released of my human nature so i can transform to my spiritual nature, I say this with love, no disrespect intended.

reply to post by IAMIAM


You said you had a plan, but it was insignificant. If it is insignificant why do you have it?

You asked how many stones it takes to build a Temple? I don't want to build a Temple.

If you are content with "not knowing" then how can you be a student?

Why does something important have to be described or defined?
My God is undefined. I know it exists, but I have no idea in what form it exists, and I don't care. I have interacted with God, and I am satisfied. It seems you are hung up on descriptions and definitions. Beginnings and Ends. I don't believe any of that is important. Only our interactions are important. I don't need a description to find God important.

What Power?
The POWER to impact another's life. The power to push that man's truck to his driveway. The power to make you question just one tidbit of your own belief. The power to shape my two son's confidence and responsibility. The power to make my own decisions and grow internally. The power to know I am not subservient to anything, even a greater entity like God, because I am free to choose, and God supports that. The POWER to transcend this existence and keep what I have gained while I was here. The power to leave something behind when I go, and help make things a little easier, or a little harder for my descendants.

You say it sounds like I do not know, but in fact I do know.
I know I have the Power to choose, I know I will make a choice every time it is required, and I will do so based on my own experiences and principles, and I know I will strive to make it the correct choice, but no matter the outcome I am strong enough to accept the consequences and gain something from the experience no matter how good or bad it turns out. That is knowledge. I cannot predict the future, and I don't want to, but I know I am prepared for the future, and I know I am tasked with impacting that future, and I know I am willing to complete that task.

To Me, it seems you have found a way to be without any responsibility. You question everything and stand for nothing. I'm not attacking your point of view, if it works for you, then fine, but it seems to me that it isn't taking you anywhere, and you refuse to make choices in life. Floating wistfully is not existing, it is just waiting and wasting precious time.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
You said you had a plan, but it was insignificant. If it is insignificant why do you have it?

As a reminder to myself that I do not know THE PLAN.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
You asked how many stones it takes to build a Temple? I don't want to build a Temple.

Then don't be a block.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
If you are content with "not knowing" then how can you be a student?

The source of knowledge is first not knowing.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Why does something important have to be described or defined?

I don't know. Why is anything important?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
My God is undefined. I know it exists, but I have no idea in what form it exists, and I don't care. I have interacted with God, and I am satisfied. It seems you are hung up on descriptions and definitions. Beginnings and Ends. I don't believe any of that is important. Only our interactions are important. I don't need a description to find God important.

What Power?
The POWER to impact another's life. The power to push that man's truck to his driveway. The power to make you question just one tidbit of your own belief. The power to shape my two son's confidence and responsibility. The power to make my own decisions and grow internally. The power to know I am not subservient to anything, even a greater entity like God, because I am free to choose, and God supports that. The POWER to transcend this existence and keep what I have gained while I was here. The power to leave something behind when I go, and help make things a little easier, or a little harder for my descendants.

You say it sounds like I do not know, but in fact I do know.
I know I have the Power to choose, I know I will make a choice every time it is required, and I will do so based on my own experiences and principles, and I know I will strive to make it the correct choice, but no matter the outcome I am strong enough to accept the consequences and gain something from the experience no matter how good or bad it turns out. That is knowledge. I cannot predict the future, and I don't want to, but I know I am prepared for the future, and I know I am tasked with impacting that future, and I know I am willing to complete that task.

edit on 27-9-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

All the above that you know, I do not.

That is ok by me. I do not mind at all not knowing.

Not knowing aside, I suspect you are onto gold here...

Only our interactions are important

With Love,

Your Brother

To Me, it seems you have found a way to be without any responsibility. You question everything and stand for nothing. I'm not attacking your point of view, if it works for you, then fine, but it seems to me that it isn't taking you anywhere, and you refuse to make choices in life. Floating wistfully is not existing, it is just waiting and wasting precious time.

It is not mine to take on responsibilities outside what I know. Rather, I leave the responsibilities to that which does know.