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Marine who said no to killing on his conscience

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posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 11:23 AM
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The first American conscientious objector from the Iraq war will give himself up at a marine base in California this morning. He said he believed the war was "immoral because of the deception involved by our leaders".

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"War is about destruction and violence and death. It is young men fighting old men's wars. It is not the answer, it just ravages the land of the battleground. I know it's wrong but other people in the military have been programmed to think it is OK."

Aman, Mr. Funk.

What do you guys think--traitor? coward? or a man who could had to face killing under any circumstances?

and should he be tried? He said he is willing to face the consequences of his actions but, should you be forced to fight or face jail just because you sign up. couldn't they find him a desk job where he pushes paper or enters data...why must he be punished for not wanting to kill?

[Edited on 5-4-2003 by Saphronia]




posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 11:55 AM
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Obviously Funk should be tried and found guilty for being AWOL, or desertion, depending on the circumstances, but as far as whether this boy is a coward or not is certainly not something anyone can determine from one article.

I think he should do himself a favor and shut his stupid yap. He wouldn't know deception if it struck him between the eyes and as far as saying that younf people don't know what they are getting into with the military, that is as much a cop out and deception as anything I've read lately, besides Arnette's lies.

After finding him guilty, I'd waive prison time, give him and dishonorable discharge and then let him deal with deceiving himself for the rest of his life so as to maintain his dignity.
No use wasting money on him in prison. He certainly isn't the only American enjoying the fruits of others' labor and when it is all said and done, a serious threat is removed from our concerns and a nation is liberated from a brutal tyrant, Funk can maintain that he was against all of it.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 03:58 PM
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First of all why would he join the Marines? I agree with TC. A trial for desertiona nd AWOL. Send him to jail for 5-15 years, then relase him.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 04:02 PM
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Agreed. A couple of decades in Levenworth will negate his interest in getting a free ride on the military without having to perform his duties that he agreed to when he enlisted.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 05:38 PM
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can it be said he didn't know what he was gettin himself into or that he wasn't cut out for that type of life? why should he suffer for the rest of his life because he made one bad decision to join the armed forces. i thought this was volunteer service. the only reason you have these strict laws in place and have to "sign you life away" is so that folk won't act on conscience and refuse to fight. that's brainwashing, and he attempts to explain it in the interview.

i think it's wrong for him to be punished when he can just be reassigned to a non-combat post.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 05:43 PM
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can it be said he didn't know what he was gettin himself into or that he wasn't cut out for that type of life? Posted by Saphronia

Ummm.... Hello? Its the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS!!!!! In the USMC, every man is a rifleman. EVERY member of the marines, regardless of rank or assignment, is expected to be trained, and be able to at a moments notice perform standard combat duties.

In any enlistment in the US armed forces, you are signing a contract: the US government will feed you, clothe you, house you, pay you, give you wonderful benefits, training, and experience you will not get anywhere else. But, if they call you to duty, you dont have a choice but to go.

If you are unwilling or unable to do so, DONT ENLIST.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 06:33 PM
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Problem is, Saph, you can't really claim to have mistakenly joined the Marines when your real intention was the local Kiwanas club, and we all know what the Marines do.

Now, the thing of it is, if someone becomes a contientious objector (Is it spelled right? That was harder than Greek or Russian!) while in the military they don't get shot or anything. They can be discharged or reassigned to the mail room (happens all the time) or something like that. Going over the hill, however, is not an option. He dishonored not only himself but also the Corps.

On the other hand, PFC Lynch is doing much better from what I've read and her folks have flown out to Ramstein To be with her. And the soldiers and Marines, Sailors and Zoomies that do the job day in and day out, they're still manning their posts and doing their jobs. Funk is but an isolated case and there are so many brave, courageous and honorable men and women in the service it should make one's heart swell.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 07:52 PM
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It is very hard to see just what this pillar of righteousness thought he was joining: perhaps he thought 'semper fi' meant something else.
His motives? It's unfortunate that to British readers "funk" can suggest a broad yellow streak in a dorsal position.
Well, if his conscience is speaking to him I guess he'll accept whatever his fate is. In this situation, I should have thought a dishonourable discharge. At the battlefront: something rather more severe.
I wonder that this born-again Quaker wasn't spotted earlier or for that matter lost in paperwork: some sort of PR thing?



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 07:55 PM
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I still can't get why this fellow would joing the Marines instead of perhaps the Coast Guard or even Air Force or Navy (in a less than combat role). It's the friggin' USMC! Didn't he ever watch full metal jacket, lol. Seriously though, Thomas, isn't every Marine a 'rifleman' or 'Infantry'? (or something like that).

I think he just joined the service for the college money then chickened out once he was actually asked to serve his country and this is his excuse. He'll get no amen from moi.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 08:03 PM
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yeah the guy shouldn't have been in the marines to start off with, his 'conscience' should have told him to leave.

Why?

He undermines the moral of the others
He undermines the authority of the superiors
He is working against the expressed plans of the military.

Its like havng someone from a rival company working in your company , its just not on.

Kick him out and he can yell and complain all he wants.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 08:06 PM
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I think the "ranks" are pretty standard: Private, PFC, Lance Corporal up to Sgt Major of the Marine Corps. Then, after NCO's, 2nd Lt and so on.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 08:18 PM
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"rifleman" certainly was a "rank" in some regiments of the British Army long ago e.g. 1914-18 war; but it is -I believe -a "qualification", rather than a rank, for the USMC.
They tend -I believe -to emphasise that everyone is a "Marine" rather than any particular rank or skill: but their "Rifleman's Creed" is well known: "This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. etc." So, I guess they all think of themselves as "riflemen" or for that matter "corpsmen".
I guess that -as they're not exactly soldiers, not exactly sailors, not exactly airmen,, they feel the need for some other distinctive designation.
USMC Harrier would be our man.



posted on Apr, 5 2003 @ 11:31 PM
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One of the biggest man's vitues is the one to forgive.

The marine is a God's scholar. He rather listen to the word of the soul and the heart rather than the one of the sick leaders.

Don't tell me that the US is fighting a right , blessed, in the name of God WAR, because war is destruction, cold murder and this goes againts GOD's and also human law.

You can't say that you started to kill in self defense, the US of A attacked, provoked.

I agree the Marine should have not joined, but in life you can have second thoughts , re-evaluate situations and follow what in your mind feels the right thing to do.



posted on Apr, 6 2003 @ 12:40 AM
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My statement that "every man is a rifleman" is meant to reflect that each and every marine is trained for, and is expected to be able to act as a common combat soldier, regardless of his original rank or assignment. There are NO non-combat duties or assignments for the marines, only temporary out-of-action assignments.



posted on Apr, 6 2003 @ 04:46 AM
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When I was soldier, I met some conscientious objectors.

The fact is that most of them were really a bunch of cowards. But I don't think this Marine is a coward. Following the Marines training when you're a coward is almost impossible.

OTH, it's not because you're a Marine that you can't be a coward. Sometimes, we can act as a coward even without knowing it.



posted on Apr, 6 2003 @ 05:22 AM
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First I'll attack the Marine, I think he's an idiot, he thinks the war is for "bad reasons". Well he should go back to Nazi Germany.

Now for you Saphroina.

Not bad...not bad indeed, but I disagree with you in the aspect of where you say "That's Brainwashing."

It's a volunteer service, until you sign, then you're Government Property.

This has been the way since the end of Feudalism, over 400 years ago. And was this way before Feudalism forever, the ancient Greeks 4000 years ago would put the veterans in the back, so if the recruits decided to try and leave, they would get a spear in the back or gut.

The reason for this is several things. Cowardice and morality are hard to distinguish. Is he really against killing people, or is he too cowardly to do it.

Afterall, a war agains Iraq, there should be no problem fighting them, the people we are fighting are butchers, and almost as bad as Nazis, except they lack in the whole Anti-Christ point.

Another reason especially in the US military goes back to George Washington who found it hard to keep a standing army even when the cause was Devine (the Revolution lol).

The only difference, George Washington, a man whom all would agree as being far more moral and superior to ourselves.

Would shoot this man for defection.

The idea of "Conciencious Objection" really didn't surface as a problem until WW2, and then only 2 men were arrested for it. The others decided being a Combat Medic was fair enough.

This Marine signed saying he would fight America's wars.

And while backing out of this one may not be out of cowardice, it's certainly due to his stupidity.

The Marines are better off without him.



posted on Apr, 6 2003 @ 05:29 AM
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Oh $hit, he's marine reserves, this guy's problem is he's been hanging out with the idiot protestors the whole war, and actually THINKS that the war is immoral.

Make an example of him, and hang him as a deserter.



posted on Apr, 6 2003 @ 10:55 AM
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5pof that's exactly my point...what should this guy do pretend he wants to kill and then when the time comes have an attack of conscience and put everybodies life in danger.

imagine givin me a gun and some training and sayin: here Martina go find the terrorist hiding amongst the little children in this village.

truth is he prolly saved lives by coming forward and saying "i believe this is wrong, and i can't in good conscience participate." how can you punish that?

he expressed his misgivings and all his commander told him was that "Son, Jesus said carry a sword".

also, the government can't own anybody that's a flawed way to look at the service. i think it was an ill-advised decision for him to join but who makes good decisions when they are 18-20? no one. that's the problem with promising college education to folk if they serve two years. you get folk that could careless about the service but see it as their only means of being able to pay for higher education.

my cousin loves being in the marines--he was kinda crazy anyway. that's what he wanted to do. he's a career man. but, Funk was looking for a hand up and got more than what he bargined for...let him go, i say. turn him loose. give him his freedom back.

[Edited on 6-4-2003 by Saphronia]



posted on Apr, 9 2003 @ 01:28 AM
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Maybe this marine didn't have any friends in the service and was worried about people watching his back in Iraq.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did join up just for the benefits the USMC and wasn't expecting a war.

Basically he is a coward and gutless. He signed the papers and now wants to reneg on his word.



posted on Apr, 9 2003 @ 03:02 AM
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How can you punish that you ask Saphroina?

Simple, you wrap a rope around his neck and throw him off a Gallows.

If you get one consiencious objector who "gets away" with it, what happens when the fighting gets tough and the soldier just wants to go home?

"Oh screw you General, I'm outta here."

You may not believe it, but Draftees even when they HATE that they have been drafted, fight every bit as well as a Volunteer who loves to fight.

But if you start letting people leave a fight any time they wish, then you have a collapse, which is unacceptable and causes "routes" which is when the enemy, still in formations simply rounds up and slaughters a falling apart opponent.

It is those formations and organizations that win wars, do you think they just go "oh well I'll go over here, but not over there".

No it's, "I ain't going anywhere" but yet they do, and because they did, we won.

Reminds me of that "Blithe" kid on Band of Brothers (Great series).

The guy had an acute blindness that would trigger off and on, but no one knew about it, and he was very timid, hiding when the fighting was going on.

But good ol' Capt. Winters forced him to start shooting, and he shot a German Paratrooper, and took his little flower.

After that he was leading the pack, eventually took a bullet to the neck and died in '48 to complications from that wound.

But the point is, if he could just "consienciously object" any time he wanted to.

He'd have never fired a shot, ran off, and never helped to win the war in any way.

That's why this marine must be Court Martialed, which you know what that means



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