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United nations laws VS Reliion=Australia and they gay marriage debate

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posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 05:09 AM
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firstly i would like to say if you hsve some kind of hate or anti homosexuality comment, dont bother because you will be reported to a moderator, i am a lesbian mother with a fiance' and i am looking to find smart and politicaly minded opinions.

In Australia we have had they Same sex marriage debate, social media polls have found that support for gay marriage is around 178,000 for same sex marriage and only 37,000 against it, Our politicians where asked to go and speak with their constituants and find out what the statistics where against and for same sex marriage, now some politicians, manly hardcore religious librals who asre mostly funded by religious sectors have withheld the truth about the approval for same sex marriage and this is because a majority support same sex marriage, There was ment to be a Concience vote to decide wether or not to adopt same sex marriage into the marriage actr but most politicians are against it even though the majority of Australians are for same sex marriage, So, if the same sex marriage votewas to be decided on by being passed throught the senate it would fail as the politicians are against it even though nearly 70% of Australians say yes to same sex marriage and the remaining 30% are apposed or undecided, Now a quote from the united nations human rights act: Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty. Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law Article 16. (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses. (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State. AND THIS! Clearly states that men and women NOT only a man and woman! So where does this override an age old book "the bile" that only gave a definition to marriage between a man and a woman? Where does human rights and equal opportunity come into play for gays and lesbians wanting to marry? I think that if back in those days gays and lesbians existed they were probably in fear of being expressive openly due to the cruel and inhumane ways of punishment as we have seen in many ancient times, we have seen innocents slaughtered due to religious belief and even such thing like killing women because they were believe to be witches which we know don't exist. If Catholics are so against homosexuality and people like the American lady say things like same sex marriage will lead to marriage between adults and paedophiles which are completely fact less and defaming to gays and lesbians, should they be looking in their own ranks of religion? They have priest who have sexually abused boys so there is paedophilia and homosexuality! Yet gays and lesbians who have done NOTHING compared to religious deciples are denied the right that every heterosexual being has. PLEASE help on this. Enough is enough of same sex discrimination and enough is enough on homophobic violence, we are all human, and if I have to here of another gay friend being bashed because he kissed a boy in public I will defiantly be looking for justice, I already fear for my partner and I as a same sex couple. Equality and farenss, less hate crimes, less discrimination and less suicides of gays and lesbian because of religious politicians who refuse to go with the normal and majority.

And now i leave this comment: how do we win this? how dpo we stop these politicians who get elected from defieing what the public wants and how do we win the war on legalising same sex marriage?

Anyone.




posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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I hate to point this out to you, but the UN is not elected to run Australia and really cannot make up laws governing us. Once they can, it means we no longer have a country.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:03 AM
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Ok here is the point I want to make it isn't about being anti gay or any of that so will say this why do you want to get married?

Do you realise where most of it came from?

If this came in would the gay community then expect churches to hold their marriage ceremonies?

Seeing as marriage was more from the religious side of things which opposes gay anything. why would you want to go down this path. I believe yes you can do what you like but don't hate a country that still upholds one of the last things that is considered a value.

I know people are born this way and there isn't a choice you can't help what you feel but fail to see why you want a religious way of life to feel more complete and accepted. Alot of gay people use their sexuality to try and get more attention and accuse people of discriminating against gays.

So this isn't a go but more of an understanding as the wall of text is far too much to try and read and make sense of.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by Tahnya86
 



i am a lesbian mother with a fiance


So there's a 3rd party because obviously lesbians can't have kids..

I'm not against gay unions but I'm one of the many that believe a marriage is between a man and a woman with the intention of starting a family utilizing the two participants..

Call your union whatever you like and I wish you a happy and fruitful life..
Just don't call it a marriage IMO...



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:15 AM
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An opinion poll on a social media site, is not necessarily an accurate indicator of the general public's opinion. You could have a debate on gun control, held in a gun owners forum, and then not be surprised to see the final result. Also social media is probably not used by anything approaching the majority of a population, let alone the elderly or middle aged, who rather than voting in online polls, would send a letter to their local or federal member. I wonder if you took a poll of people in Kings Cross, and then took a poll in, somewhere like Mt Isa, or Kalgoorlie, do you really think the results would be the same?
In an age where marriage is really not that big a factor in peoples decision to live together and raise children, why is it so important to gay people to be married? In these times, there are definately more pressing and important issues to the majority of people than gay marriage.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by vkturbo
 


on the seond post, you sorta made me cry :/ but in a good way, i just think theres such thing as equal oppertunity, its mostly the fact that married couples have more legal rites and so forth, hence equal rites, although im not religious i do want to celebrate a life commitment in a legal sense and so forth, my partner and i want the whole dream cerimoney and dresses and so forth, but this nonsense of not allowing others to have the same rites to legal things and a life comittment is wrong, its segragation and descrimination,although i must say religion can stick it where the sun dont shine, i think us same sex couples should have a union exactly like marriage with the same legitimacey and legal rights just a better more open minded name and sociality, as for the first post im pretty sure that australia is in the green zone when it come to the UN from what i seen on a UN map of countries in alliance or something, i really think we should just make something better then marriage but there is something similar called civil union or civil partnership but it is still catagorising and lacks the same legal rites as marriage, as for me i dont use my homosexuality as a flag to say look at me, instead i advocate for EQUAL RIGHTS! and these so and so's who keep bashing people because they are gay or lesbian need to be brought to justice, i know the UN has introduced something to help protect the LGBTI individuals and its ment to be a deterant to those who hate gays and lesbians, but yet its the same with the law, it doesnt physically stop anyone hurting LGBTI individuals or anyone under the laws protection, the most messed up thing here is that our prime minister is athiest and she doesnt even approve of same sex marriage, which, of corse is because of 2 reasons, 1: her cabinette members are mostly against it even though the finance minister is a lesbian with a partner and just gave borth to a child and also,well, our PM is a puppet, just like most government "leaders" as they are percieved to be, FIN.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


In reguards to starting a family, we as a same sex couple can raise a child, and we are doing verry well at, anyone who thinks we cant are brainless idiots, techknowlegy now days has been tested by extracting bone marrow from a female and injecting it into another which can create a pregnancey, so we certainly wont need a mans spearm in the future, hey, even maybe we can rid the earth of the bad men and have only the ones who dont hate people, who are open minded and who dont raspe,kill,maime,tourture and famish the world and who only think with the thing in their pants.and religion of socrse is the number 2 poison we need to get rid of, the 3rd is money.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by sixtoone
 


As for polls theres also things like neilson and so forth, professional research polls, and as i said the majority who are for same sex marriage is 70%, social media is only a small sector with a large number, its still valid as there are still people voting.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by sixtoone
 


Oh and if you think there is more pressing issues then gay marriage then what aboult the same sex couples, gay and lesbian individuals who are falling sick or having mental issues or even killing them selves because a bunch or selfish religious nuts want to discriminate? do they care about the suicides? the heart ache? no, its mainly the fact of descrimination.oh but if it where straight minorities who where killing them selves then they would be screaming and shouting "LETS SAVE THEM!", but no, because we are a minority we have to suffer because where not like straight people.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by Tahnya86
 




firstly i would like to say if you hsve some kind of hate or anti homosexuality comment, dont bother because you will be reported to a moderator, i am a lesbian mother with a fiance' and i am looking to find smart and politicaly minded opinions.


Just a few notes, if I may, on a subject that has been made to be just wayyyy too dangerous to talk about.

There are many people who disagree with the so-called gay-lifestyle based on personal opinion of things like, what makes a person gay to begin with. One can hold an opinion like that (or others) without hating anyone. To accuse someone of being a 'hater' was created just to shut down those voices that don't agree... along with trolls and such that enjoy blowing up threads.

Moreover...

I'm not speaking to my own opinion here because there is no civilized way to discuss this matter anymore just for those reasons. If I don't immediately agree with every concept of either side, there will be hell to pay. So... I just avoid it here altogether. My silence doesn't represent either support or opposition. It just says that our politically correct society has all bust destroyed the right of people to speak without fear of being labeled and libeled.

This is entirely regrettable on every single level.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by Tahnya86
reply to post by backinblack
 


In reguards to starting a family, we as a same sex couple can raise a child, and we are doing verry well at, anyone who thinks we cant are brainless idiots, techknowlegy now days has been tested by extracting bone marrow from a female and injecting it into another which can create a pregnancey, so we certainly wont need a mans spearm in the future, hey, even maybe we can rid the earth of the bad men and have only the ones who dont hate people, who are open minded and who dont raspe,kill,maime,tourture and famish the world and who only think with the thing in their pants.and religion of socrse is the number 2 poison we need to get rid of, the 3rd is money.


So now we see you simply "HATE MEN"...

Btw, I'm a MAN..
What did I do to earn your scorn??

You sound a little bias..



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by Tahnya86
reply to post by sixtoone
 


Oh and if you think there is more pressing issues then gay marriage then what aboult the same sex couples, gay and lesbian individuals who are falling sick or having mental issues or even killing them selves because a bunch or selfish religious nuts want to discriminate? do they care about the suicides? the heart ache? no, its mainly the fact of descrimination.oh but if it where straight minorities who where killing them selves then they would be screaming and shouting "LETS SAVE THEM!", but no, because we are a minority we have to suffer because where not like straight people.


What about the teenagers, or the homeless, or the police officers who kill themselves daily? Are they any less important, gay people do not have the monopoly on suicide. And the death of a gay person is no less of a tragedy than any one else. Just maybe, gay people who developed mental illness or depression, would have developed the same problem had they not been gay. My father and his new wife were refused the right to get married in a catholic church because they had been divorced. Last time I checked they hadn't committed suicide or become mentally ill. And they still go to the same church even though they had to get married in a COE church. They didn't lobby the church to change the rules either. They forgot about it and got on with their lives, because at the end of the day, they are happy and they got on with their lives. Quite frankly almost all issues that our parliament face are more pressing than gay marriage. I elect my candidate to maintain the economy, and spend my tax dollars wisely on things that make our country a better place to live in.

I have known many gay people in my life, and just like heterosexual people most do not wear their sexuality on their sleeve. You wouldn't know they were gay, and most people don't really care. I have heard of gay bashings happening, but they are no more prevalent than people being bashed for their wallets or for looking at someones girlfriend the wrong way. Unfortunately if a gay person is bashed, it usually becomes an issue of sexual preference, rather than what they actually did to deserve it.

Unfortunately, being a white or a heterosexual, means that we are more discriminated against than most. When do you ever see a white only music awards? Or a heterosexual Mardi Gras? That would make us rednecks or prudes.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


I didnt say ALL MEN, if you read properlly i said the bad ones, they know who they are! i have male friends, and a father and a grandad, so no, i dont hate YOU, i hate the desrcibed as above, "Bad ones".



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:13 AM
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To the OP, You quoted:-

"In Australia we have had they Same sex marriage debate, social media polls have found that support for gay marriage is around 178,000 for same sex marriage and only 37,000 against it, Our politicians where asked to go and speak with their constituants and find out what the statistics where against and for same sex marriage, now some politicians, manly hardcore religious librals who asre mostly funded by religious sectors have withheld the truth about the approval for same sex marriage and this is because a majority support same sex marriage, "

This just isn't true. If 70% of people wanted same sex marriage, we would have it. And probably a gay football league, as well. There is no religious conspiracy behind this. If social network polls were the defining media to give our country a collective voice, Lady GaGa would be the prime minister and the national sport would be planking.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by Tahnya86
reply to post by backinblack
 


I didnt say ALL MEN, if you read properlly i said the bad ones, they know who they are! i have male friends, and a father and a grandad, so no, i dont hate YOU, i hate the desrcibed as above, "Bad ones".


But there's BAD women too..

Do you ignore them?

I've met a few.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Tahnya86
reply to post by backinblack
 


I didnt say ALL MEN, if you read properlly i said the bad ones, they know who they are! i have male friends, and a father and a grandad, so no, i dont hate YOU, i hate the desrcibed as above, "Bad ones".


But there's BAD women too..

Do you ignore them?

I've met a few.


HERE HERE! oh wow, how about those bad female politicians who lie through there teeth.. but we cant say anything bad about the previous environmental minister because she's gay, but im sure many would agree that Gillard is bad. Double standards there right.

You see.. these polls ask people questions where there is a politically correct answer that everybody in the west has been indoctrinated to respond with ever since the idea of being politically correct was thought up in the Soviety Union, governments have been pushing agenda's with the whole concept.

The question goes like this..

Do you believe in gay marriage? The undertone (for many people who are not gay) is this, Are you politically correct or are you a intolerant?

And we get answers like 'Im not gay, not that there is anything wrong with that!' which everybody seems to find amusing, however its about as amusing as 'Im not a Muslem, not that there is anything wrong with that!'



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Just a quick few things id like to add OP, posting with some paragraphs makes your responses much easier for people to read.

Australia is suppose to be a free country where people are permitted to have their own freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of sexuality etc etc.

You are suggesting we remove the freedom of speech and the freedom of religion in order to give you, your freedom of sexuality.

Im pretty certain those diggers who died in ww1 and ww2 didn't have it in mind that we should join the UN and become members of a global undemocratic bureaucratic dictatorship run by a group of wealthy bankers and businessmen who think its a good idea that they control the world because we are all too stupid to make our own decisions.

You should have a look into the History of the UN, who founded it, how their first attempted failed and why, and what they're goals are. Im sure ATS has alot of it detailed.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Gravity215
I hate to point this out to you, but the UN is not elected to run Australia and really cannot make up laws governing us. Once they can, it means we no longer have a country.

What would be bad about that? A singular world government or a coalition would be a good thing.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by SG-17
 


Somebody's been watching too much Star Trek. Why not let hitler just have taken over the world, living under a socialist dictatorship would be just fine right, Hitler wasnt that bad was he? But all kidding aside, assuming that this world government is a democracy, which the UN is not.

How exaclty would you feel if the rest of the world voted that ownership of property was banned, then followed by allowing people to raise their own children and instead having the state raise them. These are both movements coming from within the UN right now.



posted on Sep, 2 2011 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by Gravity215
 


Totally agree and spell checking is a sign of respect to other members also.
If one can spell correctly some words then spelling all words correctly is possible if one is motivated?
But the UN hasn't made 100% spelling ability mandatory yet so all is good.
Gay marriage and parenting is ok I guess, but I can't help wondering if it may promote Homosexual and Lesbian numbers?
So what is wrong with this , the OP may ask...I say Iam not God ,its not up to me to Judge what other adults do in their bedrooms, but neither is it up to the UN to dictate morality and law?



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