Question, if FEMA is how TPTB will lock up the non compliant, how do you respond to a major natural

I am sure plenty will decry me as a "troll" or "debunker", but I am seriously asking this. Before I go further I will say that I am no big fan of FEMA. I worked some with them when I volunteered with the Civil Air Patrol on disaster relief and was not all that impressed. Their previous performance record is marginal at best.....incompetent and malfeatious at worst. Nor do I like some of the powers they have under Executive Orders (most of which were originally designed with the aftermath of nuclear war in mind.

But in the event of a major regional or national disaster, where infrastructure is severly damaged or destroyed, how does one propose the country take care of its own? Definately some of the EOs should be restructured to better take in constitutional issues. But any major recovery is going to require a coordinated response with some level of authority to execute recovery operations.

Some will say personal prepardness, and I am all for this. But for the majority of citizens and families it begins to become impractical IMHO (due to expense, space for storage, training etc.) to be prepared for more then say 60-90 days. Storing that much water alone takes a huge amount of space, that most simply don't have.

Displaced persons would be probably the largest and immediate problem. Of course this lends to FEMA camps. Everyones favorite conspiracy. I too dislike this idea. Immediate plans for permanent relocation/resettlement/ transition out of the camp and back into life should be paramount.

I guess basicly I am asking, how do we propose to take care of our people WITHOUT a FEMA like organization.

Thoughts?
Flame away....

I'm not against a FEMA like Organization, in fact I think we need them but just not 1 that is sooooooooo bad with Humanitarian Needs/Spending. I believe the FEMA Camps (Residential Centers) are soon to be Prisons and that's why I hate FEMA! If that's their solution to when a Catastrophe happens is just lock people away for their own safety then they are not By The People/For The People. That's what we need in a Crisis, is Organization by the people/for the people so we don't lose our Freedom. If FEMA is what all the Conspiracy Theorists say it is then if given the option of having their help or no help at all. I'm definitely taking the latter option.

Originally posted by SrWingCommander

But in the event of a major regional or national disaster, where infrastructure is severly damaged or destroyed, how does one propose the country take care of its own?

I'm surprised that people aren't jumping all over this one. I think that the best answer is to come up with contingency plans on a local/community, civic level. The damage of a broader infrastructural breakdown can be at least mitigated if local communities stockpile for their community, and have some sort of plan for the displaced.

I know here this spring we had a 200 year flood. Everyone was caught completely flat footed. Flood waters rose better than two feet higher than any record, or memory. They receded once, and not a week later, a bad rainstorm caused it to happen again. Half the town was underwater... twice, and for nearly two weeks in both instances there was no way in and no way out, the water supply was contaminated, etc... and yet, everyone pulled together and pulled through.

We were displaced as well. The local brand inspector, vet, and even a local boarding kennel took in my horses, cats, dogs and rabbit. The local churches offered meals and beds at the churches and sometimes with members, and covered hotel costs. The local hotels took people in at no cost, or just expenses. Shelter was set up where they could find space. People boated medication and food to others that were stranded in the nearby foothills.

In our case, it was only a month, long term things would have been more difficult. But I believe that if the local infrastructure had a plan the community would have survived six months to a year. Stressed, frayed, but survived. A cohesive community is essential. "You can't survive without a tribe" is burned in my mind now like never before.

However, much longer than a year, and I think most communities (including this one) will breakdown. The sick will become a drain without medication fairly quickly, fuel to keep things up and running, and keep everyone from freezing, is an enormous hurdle, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Those are the things you would start to see first I think, provided you have a way to maintain food and water for your population. But if people can't get grandma's medication, or heat their homes, and their kids are on half rations people will start to get twitchy and some will start to look out for their immediate family, or just themselves. This is where the cracks start to become visible.

Around here, food would be easy, it is an agricultural community, but in a larger city this would become a problem. Then you start to run into looting, and basic competition for resources, and that is where infrastructure really starts to break down. If you have solid community authority to help with order and defense than this would help, although it would be "batten down the hatches and look after our own" at that point, and things might get rather Wild West, but it would be order of some sort at least.

It all comes down to how long there is no infrastructure. Everything is a matter of degree. If it is point of no return-governmental authority as we know it is finished, then a breakdown of social order and redistribution of the population that survives is inevitable. Welcome to the Rise of The New Warlord; petty mini-kings duking it out over resources and wealth. I don't know about a Mad Max scenario, but things would get alot more brutal than they are now, and it may be some time at that point before there is a centralized force strong enough to create even a pocket of stability, let alone rebuild a nation.

This topic gets kind of old... FEMA has no authority, and I wish people would understand this.

there are no FEMA camps. This rumor started with this -
H.R. 645 - National Emergency Centers Establishment Act 2009

It was referred to committee and since that referal has met the same fate as many other bills, it died there. If you read the text of that bill you will see the mindset behind it (stems from Katrina and inadequate response by the State / local goernment and would open the door for military installations be designate to assist in a Katrina style event).

they are not concentration camps, people cant be locked into them and would be free to come and go. They are designed to be used because military installations are reinforced and have higher engineering standards than civilian structures. They also have their own self contained power, water, communications etc, which would be needed in a Katrina style disaster.

FEMA is an umbrella organization that coordinates 22 + Federal agencies. A disaster must occur locally, the locals must request state assistance. The govenor declares a disaster and then if needed request the President declare a federal disaster.

If the President does, FEMA can assist.
If the President does not, then FEMA cannot assist and the State can appeal.

If they are activated they interface with SEMA (State Emergency Managment). SEMA gives FEMA a shopping list of supplies they need, FEMA fills the order and delivers it where its need, and state / locals distribute it.

As a side note, people seem to be under the impression that every single member of government, at all levels in all states and territories, including all State guard units, police, security, Federal military etc etc would blindly follow orders.

That mindset is as stupid as it is insulting to people in those profession that they are going to follow orders.

People need topull their heads out of the sand and think.

(This is not directed at the Op btw, I just happened to reply and ranted).

Originally posted by Xcathdra
This topic gets kind of old... FEMA has no authority, and I wish people would understand this.

there are no FEMA camps. This rumor started with this -
H.R. 645 - National Emergency Centers Establishment Act 2009

It was referred to committee and since that referal has met the same fate as many other bills, it died there. If you read the text of that bill you will see the mindset behind it (stems from Katrina and inadequate response by the State / local goernment and would open the door for military installations be designate to assist in a Katrina style event).

they are not concentration camps, people cant be locked into them and would be free to come and go. They are designed to be used because military installations are reinforced and have higher engineering standards than civilian structures. They also have their own self contained power, water, communications etc, which would be needed in a Katrina style disaster.

FEMA is an umbrella organization that coordinates 22 + Federal agencies. A disaster must occur locally, the locals must request state assistance. The govenor declares a disaster and then if needed request the President declare a federal disaster.

If the President does, FEMA can assist.
If the President does not, then FEMA cannot assist and the State can appeal.

If they are activated they interface with SEMA (State Emergency Managment). SEMA gives FEMA a shopping list of supplies they need, FEMA fills the order and delivers it where its need, and state / locals distribute it.

As a side note, people seem to be under the impression that every single member of government, at all levels in all states and territories, including all State guard units, police, security, Federal military etc etc would blindly follow orders.

That mindset is as stupid as it is insulting to people in those profession that they are going to follow orders.

People need topull their heads out of the sand and think.

(This is not directed at the Op btw, I just happened to reply and ranted).

edit on 23-8-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Then why do they dodge questions and act like they don't exist??and why do their fences face inwards with electromagnetic locking doors?? Prisons have all those and I've never seen that kind of Construction anywhere else besides these Camps that are built and staffed but don't exist

reply to post by NewsWorthy

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before fema it has happened here before
www.google.com... 24&bih=619

they do exist.
they are prepared.
and the camps are staffed.

Originally posted by NewsWorthy
Then why do they dodge questions and act like they don't exist??

What part of support agency are we not understanding. If there is a shooting in your city, you will have the police, fire and ems show up. Do you think the Fire chief is going to go on tv and give an acccount of what law enforcement did?

FEMA is a support agency, and defers to local and state authorites for media information.

Originally posted by NewsWorthy
and why do their fences face inwards with electromagnetic locking doors?? Prisons have all those and I've never seen that kind of Construction anywhere else besides these Camps that are built and staffed but don't exist

Locations of these "facilities?"

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by NewsWorthy
Then why do they dodge questions and act like they don't exist??

What part of support agency are we not understanding. If there is a shooting in your city, you will have the police, fire and ems show up. Do you think the Fire chief is going to go on tv and give an acccount of what law enforcement did?

FEMA is a support agency, and defers to local and state authorites for media information.

Originally posted by NewsWorthy
and why do their fences face inwards with electromagnetic locking doors?? Prisons have all those and I've never seen that kind of Construction anywhere else besides these Camps that are built and staffed but don't exist

Locations of these "facilities?"

I believe the above poster put some links to them but they're all over...Watch the Jesse Ventura Fema episode on youtube they give locations footage and interviews for a bunch of them...Not to mention Haliburtons Contract for Train Car building for Mass Dissenter Transport..There is a massive one on a Island outside Los Angeles...They have done this befor Look Up Angel Island and how they Imprisoned All JApanese Americans During War..For Their """Safety"""" They were dying in there.

FEMA told the City of Palmer that in order to be compliant with federal emergency mandates, there must be one officer per eight residents. Link: thepalmerpost.wordpress.com...

There’s a “residential center” being run by private contractors in Taylor, outside of Austin, that has barbed wire fencing and playground equipment. This facility also sits next to railroad tracks. These are not normal prisons, and these are not residential centers for simply illegal aliens…

There is lots of them and it shows locations on the Jesse Ventura Video which is now Banned from TV...

Also Bill Cooper who was murdered on his doorstep, revealed locations of these back in 1993 and much more in his Behold A Pale Horse Book... Watch Bill Coopers Friends and Neighbors youtube videos explaining how and why he was assassinated by the TPTB.

reply to post by NewsWorthy


The poster above supplied links to youtube that are dated 2005 / 2007 and some other dates. The HR that you guys insist is in effect was not even submitted until 2009.

So no, he didnt provide evidence to anything. You made the comment, please provide sources to abck your claim up.

reply to post by NewsWorthy


You guys latch onto anything and jsut run with it.. To funny.

Palmer texas is the lynchpin to FEMA and its grand conspiracy.. If thats the case, then the reported / guy could call up any number of cities and demand the same document. he could also ask FEMA for it since its a matter of public record.

what a joke

reply to post by Xcathdra


It doesn't matter to me that you aren't very adept at connecting the dots..and it shouldn't bother you that maybe I'm not either but the simple fact that you resort to criticizing/categorizing makes you not worth even trying to prove something to.. Just remember if/when something does happen there was a lot of people that said I told you so...and if nothing happens I'll do the same. Also it is a FACT that the USA has done this in the past, and we all know History repeats itself..I live in Vallejo CA, I look at Angel Island (American Prison Camp) all the time as a reminder of things to come.

Originally posted by NewsWorthy
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

It doesn't matter to me that you aren't very adept at connecting the dots..and it shouldn't bother you that maybe I'm not either but the simple fact that you resort to criticizing/categorizing makes you not worth even trying to prove something to.. Just remember if/when something does happen there was a lot of people that said I told you so...and if nothing happens I'll do the same. Also it is a FACT that the USA has done this in the past, and we all know History repeats itself..I live in Vallejo CA, I look at Angel Island (American Prison Camp) all the time as a reminder of things to come.

I do Law Enfoircement for a living and have been trained in emergency managment as well as NIMS. In all of my dealings with Federal Agencies / Government not once has anything ever come up that talks about Martial Law" and rounding up civilians, putting them on trains and sending them East to any camps. Not only is it illegal as hell, it would never work.

The nightmare scenarios people come up with fail to take into account the 2nd amendment for civilians, as well as the oath public servants take to defend the consititution against all enemies, foriegn and domestic.

Only the Govenor can issue the order for a forced evacuation (in my state as well as most others, some exceptions exist). Its used as a very last resort and the order is not issued lightly. If a Katrina style disaster occurs, what do you do?

You guys seem to ignore the fact that a massive disaster will wipe out infrastructure (water / power / roads / airports). Those 4 areas, wiped out / destroyed, severely damaged... City / County resources (law enforcement / EMS / Fire) departments will be compromised - Radio communications destroyed, cell phone towers destroyed, Hoispitals destroyed.

If you go bakc and look at low level disasters (small tornadoes / earthquakes) you will see that the community it affected is not able to adequately deal with all problems that arise, forcing them to ask the state for assistance, which in turn asks the feds for assistance on items they cant find.

Example - Joplin MO EF-5 Tornado (and the city I live in).
City has about 50k and falls within 2 counties. When the tornado hit, it wiped out the Hospital, 911 Dispatch centers, fire stations, power. With all of the houses hat were leveled, it created interuption in the water supply, contaminating it.

The city invoked mutual aid with Missouri - For law enforcement alone, over 1,500 officers cycled through the city to augment local police. Police from surrounding states were brought in to assist. EMS from different states responded. Federal Law Enforcement arrived to assist. Infrastructure leveled / destroyed / impassible.

Over view to put it in perspective -
Joplin, MO - 50k people
needed assistance from Missouri / surrounding states for resources / assistance.

For an EF-5 Tornado... No where near a Katrina styel incident.

No city, County or State will ever have all of the resources needed to adequately respond to and deal with a massive disaster.

People need to get out of that mindset that we can go it alone.

Florida did not fight the nazis by themselves during WWII...

We have local needs as well as national intrest.

Please quit being paranoid and think before going on a conspiracy theory flight of fancy.