Why Capitalism is Inherantly Destined to Fail Every Time

reply to post by SirMike


Dont get me wrong Mike, Im not a socialist. But I'm also not a capitalist. To me theyre two flavors of the same tyrrany. As long as theres money and people have to work for money to exchange for food we're going to have corruption, hunger, etc.

The problem with all economies is that we have to work for food which reduces us all to slaves. Even the super rich are slaves to profit, just like us, perhaps even more so since they have more invested than us plebians.

So what people seem to be saying is that none of the systems really work because humans are involved so we just have to put up with what we have?


Jees if that is the true synopsis then bloody hell what is the point. I am going to stand bye something I have said before and that the human soul was better off living before civilisation kicked in and spoilt everything..

reply to post by doctornamtab


Well, when you figure out something that doesn’t involve either of the two and lets people not work for necessities, let me know.

Maybe currency should be changed to man hours worked and be the same world wide. People then trade man hours worked for goods, the more you work the more good you can get but evry job becomes equal and any one person can only earn as much as they can work. Would create a very productive and equal society with no need for government.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Maybe currency should be changed to man hours worked and be the same world wide. People then trade man hours worked for goods, the more you work the more good you can get but evry job becomes equal and any one person can only earn as much as they can work. Would create a very productive and equal society with no need for government.

Unfortunately the skills to required to repair a depressed cranial fracture are fare rarer and require mush more training than operating a backhoe. The discrepancy must be recognized.

reply to post by SirMike


Actually it should have both, not neither. There are good parts of capitalism like the market which creates new products, regulates prices and keeps people striving for something.

But socialism has the cooperative, we're-all-in-this-together aspects that are vital to our psychology and sustainability.

Thats why we need free food and shelter as long as you contribute (regardless of contribution) and keep the market in case people want bigger cars, boob jobs and all that other extraneous stuff that really has nothing to do with our biological longevity.

But we cant keep the idea that we must work for food. That puts too much pressure on the economy, the government and us, the workers. This is why there are wars, riots and other terrible social ills: the pressure on govts and corps to maintain a standard of living for its citizens while simultaneously destroying that standard of living.

The OPs right, this system fails over and over and over and over. It will continue to fail over and over and over and over until the biological needs of ALL citizens is a natural, given right.

Originally posted by doctornamtab
Capitalism requires infinite profits in a finite world. Its impossible for capitalism to continue.

There are only so many things we want to buy, people available to work certain professions and only so many jobs to go around.

Also, it funnels money upward at the expense of the poor. This creates conditions where the rich have to protect their self interest (money) by controlling business and government and manipulating consumers to maintain their profit structures. We're reaching the end point of capitalism - the period where wealth has accumulated at the top to the extent that capitalism is a detriment to 99% of the population.

I think there's a serious flaw in your argument here. The rich don't have to protect their self-interest (money) by controlling business and government. This is not inevitable, it happens when greed kicks in and the love of money and 'more' over-rides decency, morality and the law.

All business owners are slaves to profit. Money actually MAKES decisions THROUGH business owners. The owners have very little decision in the matter. Every decision a business makes is for the benefit of money, not for the benefit of the people in the business.

You're describing the current system as though it is the only alternative. Just because it's the system that has been forced upon us for centuries doesn't mean it's the only way of doing things.

As a way to move goods and services in a sustainable, long lasting manner...capitalism has failed miserably. But its over 200 years old. A lot has changed and its time for our economic models to change too.

Interest on loans is a big contributing factor. It turns economies into ponzi schemes, especially in a fiat system where enough real money doesn't exist to pay off the debt. That's what keeps inflation spiralling upwards and keeps the ponzi scheme going. If interest on loans was abolished, it would change things overnight and the world would be a much more equal playing field. That, of course, would prevent the Criminal Cabal from screwing the world, so it would be mightily opposed.

Also, the economy has way too much power over our lives...in the end its only "busy-ness" after all.

reply to post by SirMike


Take a look at this video (posted by mossme89) www.youtube.com...

People will be willing to work their butt off when they are good at something. Imagine if food, water etc was supplied for free. The farmers who supplied would be able to brand themselves as ''the bread basket of the world''. If you knew, that your goods supplies the hungry stomachs of the world, wouldn't you keep your head a little higher? Especially if you did it for free, because you wanted to and because you are good at what you do, and in return would be paid back with honour and respect from people around you (because they would KNOW that you did this because you like it)

A perfect society (in my mind anyways) would be an honour based system like the Japanese society. Money has replaced respect and sympathy

reply to post by VikingDude


I totally agree Vike....Your video isnt working though. It took my a while to figure out how to do it too.

I envision a society based on mutual contribution, not how well we can take advantage of one another. If we provide free food and shelter (what most people work for anyway) our values will shift from economic values to aesthetic values. People will be creative, they'll make art, grow a garden, exercise, take care of their kids, etc. We'll have time and energy to do things we normally cannot do. We will finally be able to take hold of what makes us human, our creative minds and social, supportive nature.

reply to post by VikingDude


How did that work out on the collective farms in the Soviet Union? Not too well.

Originally posted by doctornamtabI envision a society based on mutual contribution, not how well we can take advantage of one another. If we provide free food and shelter (what most people work for anyway) our values will shift from economic values to aesthetic values. People will be creative, they'll make art, grow a garden, exercise, take care of their kids, etc. We'll have time and energy to do things we normally cannot do. We will finally be able to take hold of what makes us human, our creative minds and social, supportive nature.

Except, naturally, for the people who produce this "free" food and "free" housing. They wont have time or energy for aesthetics because they will be too busy producing for those who spend all their new found free time making art, growing a garden, and exercising. It ALMOST sounds like the producers have been relegated to slave status to subsidize the newly found free time for others. I wonder how that will work out in the end? Surely it wouldn’t cause resentment.

Got John Galt?

And speaking of which, aren’t there more necessities than food and shelter? Is electricity a necessity? How about clothing, medicine, a bed, shoes? And if these too are necessities and necessities are required to be provided free of charge (free to the end user of course), do we need even more people giving their labor away for the common good?

And to that end, who decides who gets the free time for “aesthetics pursuits” and who works to provide these free necessities?

And just on that off chance that the producers get fed up working 16 hour days, 7 days a week so that others are free for their “aesthetics pursuits” (I know, that would never happen) what happens when they say “where’s my freebies?”.

Sounds like we need a police force to get them back working for the common good.

reply to post by SirMike


Job rotation. Share the work. Dont assume that the only choice we have is between a centralized dicatorship masquerading as socialism or a corporatized dictatorship masquerading as capitalism. There are options, there are choices, there are ways to move goods and services in which no one gets left out and no one is a slave.

Capitalism is essentially about profit, and a kind of natural selection will see the most effective profiteers rise to the top. The most effective profiteers will be very greedy and ruthless and therefore the rulers will end up being the most ruthless and greedy people that are clever enough to be effective businessmen. It is a system based on selfishness and we will be seeing its logical conclusion very soon.

We work for the people above us and at the expense of people below us, and it would be easy to argue that anyone that has desired goods beyond their needs, has contributed to this grotesquely unjust world - that would certainly include me. The only power money has over us, is the power we've chosen to surrender.

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
As long as there is greed as a human emotion,there will be capitalism.

All humans participate in some form of capitalistic achievement.

Even here on this site we participate in it.

Stars,flags,points are all designed to reward the members for participation.

Rewarded for input,rewarded for effort.

It is Socialism that always fails not Capitalism.

Russia and all its former bloc countries have all embraced Capitalism.

China has also turned to Capitalism,as well as Vietnam.

Cuba has reluctantly joined the club.

Where Capitalism fails is when governments put restrictions and controls on it.

If there was no governments Capitalism would flourish.

If people had to work for their money to survive and not depend on a government for hand out to survive then the world would be a better place.

I only wish I could star you twice. Succinct, directed, to the point.
A brilliant post.
I'm at a loss for words simply because you've said everything that I could, only better.
*applause*

Capitalism is just a game.

If you choose to play:
It's your choice how you play it.

If you choose not to play:
There are other games to play. They just have less or no players.

reply to post by SirMike


But that was communism! They didn't do it because they liked it, but because the state ordered them to do it. That's the problem with communism. We can't force this idea upon people. People have to be shifted towards this idea and sense of belonging to the community and the only way to do so, is if they do it by themselves. And the only way for them to do it all on their own, is to realize that we are all a part of humanity, we all need food and water and those who supply it should be given the greatest respect of all. Because they are, in fact, keeping humanity alive

reply to post by doctornamtab


Job rotation. Share the work .... so the pediatric radio-neurologist picks strawberries for 3 weeks a year. That’s a good use of his talents.

reply to post by VikingDude


And what happens to those who refuse to become enlightened? What happens to the farmer who wont give up either his land or his crops for the betterment of society?

Capitalism is the only system that works even close to properly. It takes negative forces (greed, laziness) and addresses them in a way that works for the general good. Without the motivation of money, we wouldn't have our society. It has flaws, but some of those have already been addressed with things like unions, abolition of child labor and minimum wage.

You fail to see the underlying problem. That is the corruptibility of human nature and the tendency for those with power to abuse their power. That power may have been gained through money, or through office. The "problem with capitalism" is the same problem with governments and with any organization. When the people fail to be in ultimate control of those in power, they will invariably be abused.

I would advocate "ethical capitalism", with a bill of rights similar to our bill of rights (which of course is being ignored more and more nowadays.) CEOs and management will be tethered to the company, not above it. If the CEO wants to make millions of dollars, his company has to be succeeding and his employees have to be prospering. This would remove a layer of protection of the corrupt elite at the top, they would no longer live the good life while their ship sinks around them. Job outsourcing must be outlawed completely. Companies must remain national, anything else is tantamount to treason. If this causes a temporary economic hit, too bad. Ultimately it will restore national sovereignty. Etc.

reply to post by SirMike


I'm pretty sure, that we would be able to develop unmanned harvesters that work on the same principles as the little robot vacuum cleaners (forgot their name). We could of course make robots do all of our work, but who wouldn't want to be admired by everyone for what you are doing?

Edit#
You haven't watched the video, have you? If people wont contribute their time and skills to society, then they should find something else to do. If they wont help, then they are to self centered to care about anything else than their own materialistic needs and rewards