Lets think about this it is a very simplistic view but it makes so much sense. Capitalism is a cycle, first it starts off getting a few people rich and keeps many in poverty. Then it makes a small portion of society very rich and most of the population out of poverty with a chance of a middle income. Then it makes a very few people extremely rich, makes a lot of perople who were rich not so rich and throws the bottom classes back into poverty whilst destroying the States finances and here is why that cycle will never break.

Capitalism is built for in a word - Greed yes? Individuals are encouraged to make as much money as they individually can. Well those that get lucky and build big profitable businesses will at first make lots of money and become rich. However to get really rich you will then need to float on the stock exchange to create capital to grow to a size where more money can be made. However at this stage you now have to give more money to the shareholder who has invested for a profit so now we have many people after more profit succling from the same teet. Ok the company maximises profits and now the shareholders want more.... How to make more profit...... Well China/Taiwan/India/Brazil/Insert Developing country here will now implement your business but at a much cheaper rate.... Winner we have now just increased our profits and are sustaining them for a relative period of time...... OOOPS

But so has every other company in the US/UK/Germany/France/Insert western country here and now our economy has a shortage of jobs... Damn more people claiming from the state, less people paying taxes... Higher Taxes double damn. Economy and stocks start to slide... nobody employed, no taxe income... panic panic panic.... Downgraded credit rating... default loans.... WE MUST MAKE WAR TO RECLAIM WHATS OURS.


And there you have the Capitalist cycle..... Guess whats next.

I can see your point, but I have an issue with:
"Well those that get lucky..."
Luck may have a little to do with it, but hard work, determination and risk-taking play larger roles. Of the few rich people I know, none of them at this moment are sipping martinis on a yacht or at the golf course. They are at work. They were here before I got to work and will still be here by the time I get home.

Capitalism requires infinite profits in a finite world. Its impossible for capitalism to continue.

There are only so many things we want to buy, people available to work certain professions and only so many jobs to go around.

Also, it funnels money upward at the expense of the poor. This creates conditions where the rich have to protect their self interest (money) by controlling business and government and manipulating consumers to maintain their profit structures. We're reaching the end point of capitalism - the period where wealth has accumulated at the top to the extent that capitalism is a detriment to 99% of the population.

All business owners are slaves to profit. Money actually MAKES decisions THROUGH business owners. The owners have very little decision in the matter. Every decision a business makes is for the benefit of money, not for the benefit of the people in the business.

As a way to move goods and services in a sustainable, long lasting manner...capitalism has failed miserably. But its over 200 years old. A lot has changed and its time for our economic models to change too.

Also, the economy has way too much power over our lives...in the end its only "busy-ness" after all.

Originally posted by canselmi
I can see your point, but I have an issue with:
"Well those that get lucky..."
Luck may have a little to do with it, but hard work, determination and risk-taking play larger roles. Of the few rich people I know, none of them at this moment are sipping martinis on a yacht or at the golf course. They are at work. They were here before I got to work and will still be here by the time I get home.

Not lucky in the fact of thats all it takes, more about the fact they were born to the right parents, who supported them and sent them to a good school and was in the right place at the right time with an idea. I do not hold a grudge that people are richer than me in anyway and most earnt it fairly and squarely however the system itself is guaranteed to fail us.

There is no other system I can think of aside from sustinance type society where we revert to trading goods and resources rather than cash.

I don’t really I have the time to contribute much but I just wanted to point out that you’re not taking into account the market’s ability to adjust.

When you say jobs go abroad and people become unemployed you have not considered the fact that this causes demand to fall and as demand falls so too do prices to a point where people are willing to begin buying again.

Also when jobs go abroad then the pool of potential employees goes up and therefore wages go down making labour cheaper thereby enticing firms to hire these people.

Cheap labour is also not the be all and end all; though many jobs have gone to developing countries because they can be done cheaper there are many that cannot. High tech industries for example do not translate as easily to developing countries because they require a more educated workforce; these and other industries expand in developed countries to make up for the loss of other industries. Of course you can say that we will only keep these jobs until other countries catch up but when that happens it is likely that workers in now developing countries will demand higher wages for the more complex work they’re doing thus negating the price advantage these countries had when it came to low skilled work.

I hope that makes sense, it was a little hastily written.

Sorry if I can’t reply.

Originally posted by doctornamtab
I can. Supply free food and shelter to the worlds population along with free birth control. Keep capitalism and the market but make them optional, not required for attaining basic life necessities like food, water and housing. When our biological life is on the line its best not to leave access to food and water in the hands of impersonal economic forces.
Working for food and shelter is slavery, just because we get to choose our favorite flavor of slavery in capitalism doesnt mean that capitalism is not slavery.

Supply free food and shelter to the world’s population ... and just who does the supplying? The wealthy, the politicos? While they may finance and mandate the dispersal of these material necessities, they are not those who produce it.

The farmer, the mason, the carpenter, the engineer … its their labor that brings these things to the end user. If the food and shelter are “free”, who compensates the people who produce and what compels them to produce? The barrel of a gun, labor camps, death squads, engineered famines to motivate them, that’s how it’s been done before. And how is that not slavery? I mean real slavery, not your twisted definition of it that equates working for what you need with some sort of unnecessarily induced hardship.

Slavery of the productive = justice
Freedom = a child like dependence on the labor of others for your basic necessities.

That’s not how I want to live.

As long as there is greed as a human emotion,there will be capitalism.

All humans participate in some form of capitalistic achievement.

Even here on this site we participate in it.

Stars,flags,points are all designed to reward the members for participation.

Rewarded for input,rewarded for effort.

It is Socialism that always fails not Capitalism.

Russia and all its former bloc countries have all embraced Capitalism.

China has also turned to Capitalism,as well as Vietnam.

Cuba has reluctantly joined the club.

Where Capitalism fails is when governments put restrictions and controls on it.

If there was no governments Capitalism would flourish.

If people had to work for their money to survive and not depend on a government for hand out to survive then the world would be a better place.

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
China has also turned to Capitalism,as well as Vietnam.
Cuba has reluctantly joined the club.

China, Vietnam and Cuba are still Socialist, although i know that they dont fully abide it,but still.

Originally posted by GLaDOS

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
China has also turned to Capitalism,as well as Vietnam.
Cuba has reluctantly joined the club.

China, Vietnam and Cuba are still Socialist..

edit on 12/8/2011 by GLaDOS because: (no reason given)

As are Norway and Sweden who are doing very well during this recession.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by GLaDOS

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
China has also turned to Capitalism,as well as Vietnam.
Cuba has reluctantly joined the club.

China, Vietnam and Cuba are still Socialist..

edit on 12/8/2011 by GLaDOS because: (no reason given)

As are Norway and Sweden who are doing very well during this recession.

Dont confuse a social welfare state with a socialist state.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by GLaDOS

Originally posted by IamJustanAmerican
China has also turned to Capitalism,as well as Vietnam.
Cuba has reluctantly joined the club.

China, Vietnam and Cuba are still Socialist..

edit on 12/8/2011 by GLaDOS because: (no reason given)

As are Norway and Sweden who are doing very well during this recession.

Norway and Sweden are capitalist..only China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam and N. Korea are Socialist.

Besides, all the failed socialist states were more totalitarian than socialist. Socialism was used as a way for tyrants to gain and wield power.

Also, capitalism wouldnt survive if major superpowers of the world were working against capitalism the way America and Europe targeted socialist countries with war, economic abandonement, etc.

Its actually a big plus that USSR survived as long as it did in the face of constant opposition.

The inherent problem is within our own human nature...

A completely capitalist society would eventually end up with an ultra rich 1% controlling class and an ultra poor 99%.

Likewise, a completely socialist society would create the same class system, but it would be government instead of businesses controlling the flow of commodities.

Either way - the few control the many, and greed still wins.

I don't think capitalism is the problem. I think its the people who game the system that is the cause of the failure. It doesn't matter what ism you prefer there will always be someone who figures out a loophole that proves counterproductive to the model.