Trying to wake up my blue pill friend.

ATSers, I've recently been having discussions with a friend who actively questions the world around him. Due to this, I started feeding him bits and pieces of what I feel I have learned about the world behind the "curtain". We've had a few friendly debates on the subject of conspiracies, the nwo etc and even though he disagrees, he has never regarded this subject as paranoid or insane. Recently I offered to send him a detailed email explaining my thoughts and giving what I see as evidence to support my beliefs. He accepted and replied by email.

His frame of thought in his reply blew my mind so much that I can't formulate a centered reply. I would be all over the place with excitement shooting down his response because there's so many holes and assumptions in it. I need your help putting together a fact-based reply to what he said. The problem is, I can't get him to grasp the amount of evil that is at play. He's stuck in the mindset that the world doesn't revolve around money and that greed is the motive of everything.

I DO NOT claim to be all knowing and fully accept that everything I said could be totally wrong. If you see glaring errors that can be proven wrong with FACTS, please do no hesitate to point them out. I just ask that you do it respectfully. Also, some of this discussion involved religion... I know that not all ATSers are Christians/religious and I respect your right to believe whatever you want. However, I don't feel the overall subject of these conspiracies revolves solely around religion. Evil is evil whether religion is involved or not so your input is still valued regarding the overall topic of discussion

My first email:

This is about to get deep and is gonna take some reading of your own to verify. Read this before looking at the attached pictures:

You said that the "ILY" sign means "I love you"... you're partially right. Helen Keller(1880-1968) - the deaf&blind girl - invented that sign; it wasn't a regular part of sign language before she used it. It didn't exist as a part of sign language at all beforehand. Its basically an ASL form of slang that she started. Deaf Heritage says it came into being in 1905... when Keller was 25 but did not become widely used until the 70's.

However...

Helen Keller was also a theosophist, specifically a Swedenborgian who, in her 1927 book, Light in My Darkness, says,

"...the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg have been my light, and a staff in my hand and by his vision splendid I am attended on my way."

She's openly telling us that E.S. is unquestionably her guide on spirituality... that's not up for interpretation. She's saying it herself.

In the second edition of Light in My Darkness she also says,

"Since my seventeenth year, I have tried to live according to the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg. By 'church' he did not mean an ecclesiastical organization, but a spiritual fellowship of thoughtful men and women who spend their lives for a service to mankind that outlasts them. He called it a civilization that was to be born of a healthy, universal religion—goodwill, mutual understanding, service from each to all, regardless of dogma or ritual."

...In other words a unified religion where the focus isn't on who you serve/worship, but that you're doing "good" for mankind.... Tell me with a straight face that the bold, underlined part doesn't sound like parts of a New World Order.

Well what is Theosophy?
Its a doctrine of religious philosophy and mysticism. Theosophy says that all religions are attempts by the Occult Brotherhood to help humanity in evolving to greater perfection, and that each religion therefore has a portion of the truth.

...or as its defined on Dictionary.com - the system of beliefs of the Theosophical Society founded in 1875, claiming to be derived from the sacred writings of Brahmanism and Buddhism, but denying the existence of any personal God

Here is his reply, some of these I can only shake my head at. #7 in particular. Help me compose a fact-based response guys, thanks.

1) There is no historical proof for such things. We know for a fact that the Illuminati was never meant to conquer the world and that they had no interest in any sort of secret government.

The New world order is nothing to be afraid of either. The "New World Order" is Liberalism, as in Classical liberalism. This means freedom of speech and republicanism. In other words, the freedoms you enjoy today are the New World order spoken of by ENlightenment thinkers.

2) Logistics: The amount of money and enforcement to run a Secret government is so huge, it wouldn't be a very big secret. Even a government in the Open would have huge logistic problems, let alone a government that can't enforce any laws.

3) Politicians would never voluntarily share power.

4) The moment a foreign party took over, the entire system would collapse. This has happened repeatedly throughout the history of every nation.

5) Nations would not work together, i.e. the Russians/Chinese/Arab Nations/Israel/Venezuela and the US. If one of these were part of this organization, the other would've known and outed the illuminati immediately to make their case for their enemy being imperialists.

6) There are patriotic people in government. The entire idea is flawed because someone from the government would out what was going on behind the scenes as a patriotic person for his nation.

7) If there were any credibility to this, the mass media would attack it immediately. No one can really control the media either, so it would be a massive story immediately. This entire conspiracy is like christmas for news stations if it's true.

theoretical-
you have an enemy. .0005% of the population. these individuals are rolling in money, largely part of a complete lack of empathy and penalty. they are the most ruthless kind of people and they dont have a homeland, they use a host, like a kind of parasite. this tiny fraction can hold millions of lives in their hands and wipe them out in an instant without any fear of retaliation. they have no homeland to bomb, to invade. but we do. the ones on top are told if they try to call em out, we die. if they let it be, they get a cut of everything. they have a gun to our head in the dark, and a tiny part of the poppulation know they exist, let alone WHO they are.

this isnt so hypotheitical. logistics mean nothing when they are the ones in control of printing the money. the fed can do pretty much whatever it wants, but it isnt even the top of the eschelon, its incredible.

some cant hear. sometimes people just think that going with it would be better in the end. to be an "asset" of the NWO rather than a resistor. but what hapens when the pawn (who has morals) is no longer of any use to his (ruthless) master? the past doesnt lie

Originally posted by Watts
6) There are patriotic people in government. The entire idea is flawed because someone from the government would out what was going on behind the scenes as a patriotic person for his nation.

or die trying as has happened COUNTLESS times now. people get tired of dying for people that wont listen to them

Why are people here so obsessed with "waking people up"?

Seriously, if he wants to continue that line of thought then let him, it's his choice otherwise it's like the Middle Ages when religion was forced on someone and if they refused to believe, they would be punished or ostracized for it.

You have one line of thinking, he has another, if we all believed and thought the same things life would be boring. If he's happy in life as is then don't forcefully convert him to your line of thinking or he won't be your friend any more, he'll see you as the nutjob who tried to get him to believe stuff he thinks is ricockulous.

Also, as a lifelong heavy metal fan, I and others use the horns on a regular basis every day of our lives either in salute to our favourite bands or as a gesture of "awesome, that kicked ass", even as a silent greeting as we pass on the street. None of us are Satanists or involved in an Illuminati plot and seeing something used in my life all the time passed off as something only rich and evil elites do is hilarious. Plus it was used to ward off demons in Italy for hundreds of years.

Originally posted by curious7
Why are people here so obsessed with "waking people up"?

Seriously, if he wants to continue that line of thought then let him, it's his choice otherwise it's like the Middle Ages when religion was forced on someone and if they refused to believe, they would be punished or ostracized for it.

You have one line of thinking, he has another, if we all believed and thought the same things life would be boring. If he's happy in life as is then don't forcefully convert him to your line of thinking or he won't be your friend any more, he'll see you as the nutjob who tried to get him to believe stuff he thinks is ricockulous.

I guess you missed the part where I said he questions the world around him which led me to start giving him bits and pieces of info here and there which turned into full on friendly debates. He requested I send him info I didin't "force" anything on him. He asked to be convinced with compelling info/facts.

Also, as a lifelong heavy metal fan, I and others use the horns on a regular basis every day of our lives either in salute to our favourite bands or as a gesture of "awesome, that kicked ass", even as a silent greeting as we pass on the street. None of us are Satanists or involved in an Illuminati plot and seeing something used in my life all the time passed off as something only rich and evil elites do is hilarious. Plus it was used to ward off demons in Italy for hundreds of years.

If a child sees his parents use the middle finger, then begins to mock them when he's out playing without really knowing what it means, then his friends begin copying him to join in on the "fun" does the original meaning of the middle finger suddenly disappear? No. Does the child's ignorance of what he's doing change the real meaning of it? No. The "mano cornuto" has been around far longer than "rock on" hands.

reply to post by GenerationXisMarching


Thanks for your input

reply to post by Watts


Have you ever thought that maybe you are the one in the wrong? I see that you are trying to be rational about all of this, but to me it looks like you are attempting to make connections that simply aren't there. Theosophy and Freemasonry aren't related to Satanism, and nothing you've stated here is any proof otherwise. Yes there is Masonic symbolism on the dollar bill and other forms of currency/national monuments but to connect this with the Illuminati or a "New World Order" where the elites want to imprison everybody is laughable. I believe in the existence of secret societies, and I think there are definitely people in power involved with them. Also, looking at the way things are today it's quite obvious that we're headed towards a big change in the way we live our lives. I don't understand the people who complain about how things are now, yet are quick to attack any efforts at any sort of change by automatically associating it with what they believe to be this so called New World Order.

reply to post by Watts

That's funny. The blue pill itself is supposed to wake up your little friend. Are you taking real blue pills, or did you get them from one of those spammy Mexican pharmacies?

Originally posted by Watts

Originally posted by curious7
Why are people here so obsessed with "waking people up"?

Seriously, if he wants to continue that line of thought then let him, it's his choice otherwise it's like the Middle Ages when religion was forced on someone and if they refused to believe, they would be punished or ostracized for it.

You have one line of thinking, he has another, if we all believed and thought the same things life would be boring. If he's happy in life as is then don't forcefully convert him to your line of thinking or he won't be your friend any more, he'll see you as the nutjob who tried to get him to believe stuff he thinks is ricockulous.

I guess you missed the part where I said he questions the world around him which led me to start giving him bits and pieces of info here and there which turned into full on friendly debates. He requested I send him info I didin't "force" anything on him. He asked to be convinced with compelling info/facts.

You're asking for people here to help you force this onto a supposed friend because he refuted everything you originally sent him upon his request for info.

I starred your second post in the thread with his reply because everything he said makes sense and everything you sent to him when he asked for info was just hilarious hogwash.

Originally posted by Watts

Originally posted by curious7
Also, as a lifelong heavy metal fan, I and others use the horns on a regular basis every day of our lives either in salute to our favourite bands or as a gesture of "awesome, that kicked ass", even as a silent greeting as we pass on the street. None of us are Satanists or involved in an Illuminati plot and seeing something used in my life all the time passed off as something only rich and evil elites do is hilarious. Plus it was used to ward off demons in Italy for hundreds of years.

If a child sees his parents use the middle finger, then begins to mock them when he's out playing without really knowing what it means, then his friends begin copying him to join in on the "fun" does the original meaning of the middle finger suddenly disappear? No. Does the child's ignorance of what he's doing change the real meaning of it? No. The "mano cornuto" has been around far longer than "rock on" hands.

Has it? As I said, it was used to ward off demons in Italy for centuries, possibly longer than when the so-called "Illuminati" were first formed so who is copying who again?

Yeah, your arguments have been refuted by your friend and by myself so I think we know who really needs to be "woken up" don't we?

For me the jury is still out on the illuminate. I know an org exists and possibly has loyalty to a particular country, I also suspect a connection with the CIA.

I am not certain what their plans or activities are, I am on the fence.

The media however is a different kettle of fish. There are plenty of things on the web about the Murdoch monopoly and the despicable things rupert has done to people he didn't like.

His club is very influential.

reply to post by Threegirls


I still think that - as reported and mentioned a lot of times by various sources and people who research it - the Illuminati as a group ended hundreds of years ago and was nothing more than a secret society that discussed ideas without having to deal with outside interference much like the Masons did (they discussed things like how to better their lives in secret and with all members treated as equals despite their titles, positions of power or lack thereof and jobs).

No clue why people still think they exist today if that's the case.

As far as Murdoch, no clue about his shenanigans I admit but I still feel that Sky News is pretty much the most unbiased news corporation in the world as well as the most reliable and with the best reporters that are willing to get deep into the heart of a matter to bring it to the masses. Much respect to them.

Your friend is mostly right. What you're arguing is pseudo-political nonsense for the most part.

He's wrong in that politicians do not coerce or work for their mutual benefit, but he's right about everything else.

Speaking of pills, I think you've taken one too many hits of acid. All this free masonry Illuminati nonsense is laughable. Just convenient conspiracy to explain what the politically-ignorant cannot explain.

There's plenty of very real conspiracies, but the stuff you're trying to persuade your friend towards is mere fantasy.

Those symbols symbolize what people intended them for which is to get in your head and get you lost on researching something you probably already know the answer too.